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Thread: conceal carry course differences

  1. #1
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    conceal carry course differences

    i am going to be taking my conceal carry course soon and have found out that there is a big difference from one instructor to another. in scottsville where i bought my gun a guy will do the course for $35 if you bought your gun there. in tompkinsville it $85 and my wife told me that she saw on the computer that in edmonton its $75. my wife said she saw that in edmonton the guy wanted a person to bring their own gun, 50+rds of ammo and a cleaning kit. i called t-ville and that guy said he had a gun i could use as well as ammo and all i needed was 20rds and no cleaning kit. a friend of mine took the t-ville course and said the guy was nice and let him use his gun and that he had, he charged $85 because that included lunch. i haven't called scottsville yet but was told the day i got my gun that the shop had a deal with a guy that he will do it for $35 when you get the gun there. i would like to know by those on here, how much ammo do i need? and do i need a cleaning kit and such?, also i bought a 605 taurus 357 mag and it shoots like a dream. thanks for any help

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    i am going to be taking my conceal carry course soon and have found out that there is a big difference from one instructor to another. in scottsville where i bought my gun a guy will do the course for $35 if you bought your gun there. in tompkinsville it $85 and my wife told me that she saw on the computer that in edmonton its $75. my wife said she saw that in edmonton the guy wanted a person to bring their own gun, 50+rds of ammo and a cleaning kit. i called t-ville and that guy said he had a gun i could use as well as ammo and all i needed was 20rds and no cleaning kit. a friend of mine took the t-ville course and said the guy was nice and let him use his gun and that he had, he charged $85 because that included lunch. i haven't called scottsville yet but was told the day i got my gun that the shop had a deal with a guy that he will do it for $35 when you get the gun there. i would like to know by those on here, how much ammo do i need? and do i need a cleaning kit and such?, also i bought a 605 taurus 357 mag and it shoots like a dream. thanks for any help
    I'm not sure what you're asking. If your asking if there is any difference in the course material the answer is, not much. The material covered by the course is the same anywhere. As a matter of fact , most of it is on video tape or DVD. The individual instructors may add their own spin, but the material should be the same. If you want to know why the price is different the best answer is the same as why one gun dealer sells a gun for one price and another dealer sells the same gun for a different price. Instructors are private contractors and can charge whatever they want. The state has put a maximum of $75 or $85, I've forgotten which. An instructor can do it for free if he wants, but the course material has to be the same. Your supposed to have your own gun, 20 rounds of factory ammo and a cleaning kit. Some instructors will loan you a gun and a cleaning kit or not require you to clean it, but cleaning the gun is part of the course and it is supposed to be done. Some instructors will take your picture that is required for the application, too. They usually charge extra for that, it's not part of the course. Some dealers will do it cheap, if you buy a gun from them. Ask the trainers you may be using where they plan on doing the shooting portion of the test. Some use an indoor gun range and expect the student to pay for that. Others have a place that's free. I used to do it off my back porch. Just pick an instructor that's close to you, charges the least and will do whatever you need done. If you need to borrow a gun and the cheapest guy won't do it, you may have to barrow a gun from a buddy or pay a few extra dollars to the instructor that will. I once had a student that brought a Chinese Makarov to shoot and the firing pin fell out while he was shooting. I didn't want him to miss the class so I lent him a gun to finish with. You do not have to use the same gun you intend to carry. The county Sheriff's Office can give you a list of all the instructors in that county. There is a list of all the certified instructors in the state, broken down by counties at the Crininal Justice Training Center website at:

    http://docjt.jus.state.ky.us/ccdw.html
    Last edited by gutshot; 03-26-2011 at 10:24 PM.

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    Statues relevant to your search:
    See section 8 of below link.
    http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/237-00/122.PDF

    See paragraph 4 section i of below link
    http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

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    I can't tell you about KY instructor differences but I can tell you about SC instructors and I imagine that they are very similar. The goal of some instructors is to give you the minimum trainging to get your permit and get you out of there. Others are interested in giving you a good trainging course with extras and try to make you a safe carrier. Now some feel that they don't need any training and just want to go through the motions so they can get their permit. I found that in just about every case if the student actually paid attention and listened to the instructor they could learn some things they didn't know.

    As for the price differences the one giving a break for buying a gun is including it in the price of the gun and nothing wrong with that. The ones that require extra ammo and a cleaning kit are probably going to provide a good class and extras beyond the minimum requirements. The second time I took the class in SC I found that out and was very pleased with the course. The one that furnishes the gun and ammo may or may not do a good job but I would prefer to use my own gun and ammo. Furnishing ammo is definitely cutting into his profit.

    Ask around the local area for references as to what the instructor includes in the class. In one class I took the instructor required the minimum and when I left I had to get all the other stuff such as fingerprints and picture on my own and wound up not applying for a while. In the second class I walked out with an envelope already addressed that all I had to do was put a check in it and stamps on it. The course was much longer, required 150 rounds instead of the minimum 50 and was a much better course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I can't tell you about KY instructor differences but I can tell you about SC instructors and I imagine that they are very similar. The goal of some instructors is to give you the minimum trainging to get your permit and get you out of there. Others are interested in giving you a good trainging course with extras and try to make you a safe carrier. Now some feel that they don't need any training and just want to go through the motions so they can get their permit. I found that in just about every case if the student actually paid attention and listened to the instructor they could learn some things they didn't know.

    As for the price differences the one giving a break for buying a gun is including it in the price of the gun and nothing wrong with that. The ones that require extra ammo and a cleaning kit are probably going to provide a good class and extras beyond the minimum requirements. The second time I took the class in SC I found that out and was very pleased with the course. The one that furnishes the gun and ammo may or may not do a good job but I would prefer to use my own gun and ammo. Furnishing ammo is definitely cutting into his profit.

    Ask around the local area for references as to what the instructor includes in the class. In one class I took the instructor required the minimum and when I left I had to get all the other stuff such as fingerprints and picture on my own and wound up not applying for a while. In the second class I walked out with an envelope already addressed that all I had to do was put a check in it and stamps on it. The course was much longer, required 150 rounds instead of the minimum 50 and was a much better course.
    The Ky. course is nothing like that. The course content is mandated by law and no additions or deletions are allowed. Only instructors trained on the Ky. law and certified by the Ky. Dept. Of Criminal Justice are allowed to give the course. Instructors who add or subtract content risk losing their state certification and any students who are not trained, exactly in accordance with the law, may have their training disallowed and CCDW's revoked. Instructors are trained to not allow questions that are not directly covered by the course content and if such questions are asked to respond with, "That is beyond the scope of this course. I will be glad to discuss that with you at another time, outside this course. My best advice is to ask an attorney." If the question is covered by the course material to respond with the exact wording in the course manual. Most of the course is on video tape or DVD. If questions come up instructors are taught to replay that portion of the recording. Of course, some instructors don't follow that training. A few years ago some instructors were found to be shortcutting the course. They lost their certifications and all those students lost their CCDW licenses and had to retake the course and reapply. All course books, manuals, photographs, recordings and publications are furnished by the state and no other instruction materials are supposed to be used. The law says the course shall contain a maximum of 8 hours and exactly 20 rounds of ammo. The law says you are required to bring a serviceable handgun, your own factory ammo, and a cleaning kit. Some instructors will ignore these details, but they risk their certification by doing so. In Ky. no alternate instructors qualification is recognized, no NRA instructors or other instructor qualification is allowed, unless they also have the state certification that can only be obtained by going through the state instructors training course. All Ky. courses are supposed to be exactly the same, no more, no less. Persons desiring to become an instructor in Ky. may have extensive firearms experience or they may have none. None is required to become an instructor, only the completion of the instructors course. I know instructors who do not own a gun and never have owned one. In Ky., the instructors are there to teach the Ky. law on carrying a concealed weapon, basic shooting skills, basic safety, basic firearms maintenance and cleaning, and nothing more. If a person desires further, more extensive, training with a firearm they should obtain it on their own, with a competent instructor of their choosing. This is not my opinion of how things should be, it is the way the Ky. CCDW program is currently set up.
    Last edited by gutshot; 03-27-2011 at 12:17 PM.

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    gutshot, all I can say is WOW or WTF, one or the other. If that it the way it is there isn't much need for an instructor at all is there. Watch a few videos on line and go to a range to fire 20 rounds. Not much training at all in my opinion especially if he isn't allowed to elaborate on questions, explain them or be sure that the student understands what you are supposed to be teaching. Sound like some screwed up gubmint bureaucrat writing lesson plans for a no child left behind 2nd grader.

    As I said the first instructor I had showed the videos, went over the laws, gave the test and carried us out to the range to fire the 50 rounds. There were a couple of ladies that could not fire a gun without closing their eys and turning their head. The two combined hit the target 3 out of the 100 times and they did not pass.

    The second instructor not only had the videos but also covered real world situations as well as the laws, gave instructions on self defense situations and lots of other stuff. When we went to the range we each fired at least 50 rounds before even starting the target test portion of the course. Lots of extra stuff and training. Ironically the first instructor was the training instructor for the local police department and the second was a private instructor that taught security training for a nuclear power plant among other things.

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    It isn't WTF it is sensible. Don't forget that in ky we can openly carry pretty much anywhere with no ignorant license unlike u folks in sc. I don't think we should need a license to cc either BC the constitution doesn't say we need a license to carry any way we want. All ky wants is for us to know the laws and that we know how to operate a firearm not bad but unecessary. I say n the next year or two ky will do away with the licensing requirement all together, and if u think that is a bad thing ur not a very big fan of 2a are ya? I find it absurd that states like sc make u get a license to carry a firearm in public and then tell u the only way u can do it is to conceal it, like they r trying to denormalize guns it is a joke. I love ky and our pretty much non existent gun laws

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    gutshot, all I can say is WOW or WTF, one or the other. If that it the way it is there isn't much need for an instructor at all is there. Watch a few videos on line and go to a range to fire 20 rounds. Not much training at all in my opinion especially if he isn't allowed to elaborate on questions, explain them or be sure that the student understands what you are supposed to be teaching. Sound like some screwed up gubmint bureaucrat writing lesson plans for a no child left behind 2nd grader.

    As I said the first instructor I had showed the videos, went over the laws, gave the test and carried us out to the range to fire the 50 rounds. There were a couple of ladies that could not fire a gun without closing their eys and turning their head. The two combined hit the target 3 out of the 100 times and they did not pass.

    The second instructor not only had the videos but also covered real world situations as well as the laws, gave instructions on self defense situations and lots of other stuff. When we went to the range we each fired at least 50 rounds before even starting the target test portion of the course. Lots of extra stuff and training. Ironically the first instructor was the training instructor for the local police department and the second was a private instructor that taught security training for a nuclear power plant among other things.
    You are mistaken on several points. I never said the videos were available online. They are produced by the Dept. of Criminal Justice Training and the actors and professional instructors use the exact wording from the Ky. law. They are very good. They are viewed in a classroom setting with the instructor present. It may be stopped at several points to allow the instructor to comment on the material. As far as elaborating, that is just a distraction that can get out of hand and then the necessary information does get covered. BS stories then take over. This can confuse some people. You need to stay on the subject at hand. The class can only last 8 hours max. If the students can't get it in the manner presented by the videos, maybe they shouldn't have a license. The instructors do all the paperwork, grade the tests and forward the paperwork to the Dept. of Criminal Justice Training. They see that the required material is covered. The Ky. concealed carry course is designed to teach people about concealed carry and the law involved in this serious business. It is not a marksmanship course or a safety course. Those two things are touched on, because concealed carry touches on those subjects. The state decided they did not want anyone to argue that they had all the training that was necessary by taking the concealed carry class, so they took all that out of it. The course is mostly about the aspects of the Ky. concealed carry law. Where you can and can not carry. What your responsibilities are. It also covers the legal and illegal use of force and deadly force. It's mostly about the law. Anything else you need to get on your own. The live firing is 20 rds. at a silhouette, 11 yds distance. 11 hits anywhere in the silhouette counts, a nick counts. I never had anyone fail, even some women who said it was their first firing of a gun. I'm certain I could do it with my eyes closed. How much time would it take to teach those ladies in your example to shoot a gun correctly. I don't think it could be done in time to teach the rest of the class the Ky. course and finish in the allotted time. It's better to do that separately. Am I saying give them the license first? No, they'd still have to pass the course. It's just I never had anybody like that in 10 years as an instructor. I guess Ky. ladies are just naturally beter at gun handling that yours. The Ky. course is a very good course. Is it everything that a person should know to carry a gun? No. Is it everything a person should know about marksmanship and gun safety? No. It is not intended to be. In your system some people get a lot of training and some get little. We don't even attempt to train them and tell them so. We just teach the law, everyone equally. I'd bet that sooner or latter some jerk in your state will claim that his arrest for some infraction was because his instructor was no good and his training was inadequate. That can't happen here. all instructor teach the same material. Our course does a good job of doing what the General Assembly intended. Which is better? I don't know. What each individual does after licensing is their business.

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    So the total cost of the CCDW is $60 to the state plus whatever the Instructor charges?

    Also, does the Instructor have to be in the country one resides in, or could one go to a different county?

    I'd love to find an Instructor who will do the class for $35
    Last edited by flb_78; 03-27-2011 at 09:13 PM.

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