vehicle carry in wa state

The Big Dog · Apr 2, 2011

Read the LAW

Jeep Guy said:
I know that with my cpl i can carry a loaded pistol on my body in my vehicle but is it leagal to have a loaded mag in my pistol in my glovebox or center console? thanks

I have been reading the forum for a while now; I have joined in at a few of the gatherings in Federal Way. This is my first time posting a reply, I have just joined your Forum today. My opinion and my opinion only…..some of the advice on this site could end up getting some people arrested and/or some jail time. With that said.

Some say, with a CPL, a pistol in the glove box is legal some say a pistol in the glove box is illegal. I say READ THE LAW, understand what the law is saying, take the law very literally and you can’t go wrong. The judge you come in front of, after you have been arrested, will most likely take the law very literally. The words below are the LAW and they read “unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee’s person,” The KEY words are “ The pistol is on the licensee’s person”. That is not saying the glove box is OK or the center consol is OK. The law states the pistol must be on the licensee’s person.

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I agree with the person that consulted with a cop friend that stated the cops will not give you a hard time if you have a CPL and keep a pistol in your glove box. That would be a good cop on a good day. Should you end up with the bad cop on a bad day or the good cop on a bad day, you could end up being the person having a very bad day and in need of a lawyer.

sudden valley gunner · Apr 2, 2011

Every once in awhile that or gets overlooked.

The Big Dog · Apr 2, 2011

NavyLT said:
1. I would suggest you read the entire law. Especially the word that I highlighted:

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

2. I would also suggest that you read what the Attorney General of the State of Washington has to say about it:

http://dyna-vault.com/images/Guns%20in%20Vehicles.pdf

1. I did read the entire law; I know what the law says. That is why I decided to comment. I read the law exactly the way a cop would read the law while sitting in his patrol car reading the RCW on his lap top. If you are planning on the letter from the AG to save you from ending up in front of a judge, I might suggest you place a copy of that letter in your glove box with your gun. I think my gun will stay on my hip while I am driving.

2. I did read what the AG of the state of Washington had to say about it. The part that scares me is “For the reasons set fourth below, it is my opinion that your question should be answered in the affirmative”.[/I] For my money “my opinion” and “should be” are not strong enough words and may not hold up in front of the judge you may end up in front of with your beliefs. Until the RCW has better wording, my gun will stay on my hip while I am driving.

gogodawgs · Apr 2, 2011

Welcome big dog.....

Your opinion is completely and utterly incorrect. Explain to me a few years back when I was pulled over on I-5, and received a soon to be dismissed speeding ticket, why the Washington State Patrol Sargent looked at my loaded Sig laying on the passenger seat and did not cite me for having an loaded firearm 'on my person?' His only question was "do you always carry?" To which I responded "yes" and he said "I can't blame you, it's rough our here."

The 'or' is a commonly used legislative linguistic practice, it means precisely what NavyLT described above. 100s if not 1000s of CPL holders are pulled over every year with a pistol not on their person. Having done ride-a-longs with local sheriffs and WSP I can say in the affirmative that your view is precisely wrong. The legislature intentionally put the 'or' in this RCW and many many others as a clear indication that the phrase is not inclusive but rather limited in scope. The AG reaffirms the language.

Again, welcome and keep reading...

sudden valley gunner · Apr 2, 2011

Of course then there are city cops....."Deputy Chief" Flo Simon here in Bellingham told me if I have a CPL I have to leave it in the car or conceal.

So then again her comment would coincide with Gogo and NavyLT, yet she was utterly wrong about not being able to open carry.

sudden valley gunner · Apr 3, 2011

NavyLT said:
His statements that a cop may not read the law that way, and that a judge may agree with the cop are exactly true. Some people might choose to live their lives centered around what cops MIGHT do and how judges MIGHT rule, and that is their decision. Most of us on this forum will live our lives by what the law actually says, especially when the Attorney General, the MOST senior and expert opinion in the state, says the law says what we say the law says.

+1

gogodawgs · Apr 3, 2011

More thoughts on this subject.... ( "or")

Let's say I choose (it's still a free society) to carry several of my handguns with me as I travel to Spokane from Seattle. I have a CPL and choose to carry them all loaded. Therefore I have 15 loaded handguns in my car. The RCW does not restrict how many loaded firearms I can transport with me in my vehicle and I choose not to have them all on my person. Certainly this is a legal activity as it is not specifically restricted. I carry 2 in the glove box, 5 on the passenger seat, 5 in the back seat, one in the trunck and 2 on my person. All legal. Furthermore, if I was to be pulled over for a tail light being out on my vehicle I would have no obligation to inform the officer that I had any firearms on my person....

BigDave · Apr 4, 2011

Emphasis added to clarify the reading of the RCW

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and:

(i) The pistol is on the licensee's person,
(ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or
(iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

It can be on your person or in the vehicle while the licensee is in the vehicle and if the licensee is outside the vehicle it must be concealed from view and locked with in.

Big Dog your reading of the RCW is a little flawed but it is good to get this out and discuss, better asked then not.

amzbrady · Apr 5, 2011

NavyLT said:
Found it. WA AG Opinion:

http://dyna-vault.com/images/Guns in Vehicles.pdf

The gun can be anywhere in the vehicle, so long as the CPL holder is also in the vehicle.

I was just thinking (it happens from time to time), would there happen to be an AG written opinion on open carry? I know a picture is worth a thousand words (refering to Deros and GoGo standing with Rob in Seattle with an officer to there immediate left), but it seems if we had something in written form it would be a little more than conveniant to have when an officer tries to debate the legality of open carry.

The Big Dog · Apr 5, 2011

Big Dog your reading of the RCW is a little flawed but it is good to get this out and discuss, better asked then not.[/QUOTE]

Thanks BigDave for the tasteful comments. Your comments were more like what I would expect on a forum like this, unlike the comments by NavyLT and gogodawgs. I thought sure the two of them were in a challenge to see which one could come off as being more smug, pompous and arrogant than the other. I'm not sure who won, I'll call it a tie.

SMUG: Having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements
POMPUS: Affectedly and irritatingly grand, solemn, or self-important
ARROGANT: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

The Big Dog · Apr 8, 2011

Discretion is the better part of valor

Almost 25 years ago someone read RCW 9.41.050 and thought it not to be very clear and requested the AG to clarify the content of that law. The AG sent a reply adding only an opinion. Without the knowledge of said letter, anyone reading this law would most likely come to the wrong conclusion. If a LEO came to that same wrong conclusion, you could be cited for doing something perfectly legal. Does anyone know anybody cited for doing something perfectly legal?

NavyLt states:
“Me? I prefer to take advantage of the freedoms that the law allows... such as having my gun wherever I want to in my vehicle and carrying it openly or concealed as I decide to.... I don't live my life by what some cop might think. “

I’m sorry, but that statement comes off as arrogant to me.

I know of someone that lives his life in the very same manor, most of you reading this forum know of him also. Read: (LEO gave me a ticket) w07rolla on the forum. He did not live his life by what some cop might think and now it is over 39 pages of continuous BLA BLA BLA over being cited for doing something he thought was perfectly legal. (w07rolla) How’s that working for you?

Discretion is the better part of valor
It is good to be brave, but it is also good to be careful. If you are careful, you will not get into situations that require you to be brave.

Maybe if (w07rolla) would have used a little discretion, covered up his gun as requested he could have avoided this situation. Instead of mounting a defense with a lawyer he could be filing a formal complaint with the offending police department with follow up letters to the state AG. Much better to be on the offence than defense.

Vitaeus · Apr 8, 2011

The Big Dog said:
Almost 25 years ago someone read RCW 9.41.050 and thought it not to be very clear and requested the AG to clarify the content of that law. The AG sent a reply adding only an opinion. Without the knowledge of said letter, anyone reading this law would most likely come to the wrong conclusion. If a LEO came to that same wrong conclusion, you could be cited for doing something perfectly legal. Does anyone know anybody cited for doing something perfectly legal?

NavyLt states:
“Me? I prefer to take advantage of the freedoms that the law allows... such as having my gun wherever I want to in my vehicle and carrying it openly or concealed as I decide to.... I don't live my life by what some cop might think. “

I’m sorry, but that statement comes off as arrogant to me.

I know of someone that lives his life in the very same manor, most of you reading this forum know of him also. Read: (LEO gave me a ticket) w07rolla on the forum. He did not live his life by what some cop might think and now it is over 39 pages of continuous BLA BLA BLA over being cited for doing something he thought was perfectly legal. (w07rolla) How’s that working for you?

Discretion is the better part of valor
It is good to be brave, but it is also good to be careful. If you are careful, you will not get into situations that require you to be brave.

Maybe if (w07rolla) would have used a little discretion, covered up his gun as requested he could have avoided this situation. Instead of mounting a defense with a lawyer he could be filing a formal complaint with the offending police department with follow up letters to the state AG. Much better to be on the offence than defense.

Please, correct me if I am gathering the wrong impression, but I doubt you Open Carry. You seem to enjoy someone else being wrongfully cited and convicted of a crime. Other than your initial post here, you have the makings of a fine internet troll. You certainly won't be improving the acceptance of Open Carry in the state of Washington, since I doubt you Open Carry.If you do, it will only be because of the actions of the folks like w07rolla, who is in the same category as Rosa Parks and many others who did nothing wrong and refused to "just cover up" or in her case "move to the back of the bus". You are welcome to your opinion, but expecting that the folks on this forum to share it is a bit unlikely.

sudden valley gunner · Apr 8, 2011

And Josh's case may very well give us a published court opinion in the end. My guess is the courts won't let it go that far and drop it.

Big Dog you are confusing arrogance with confidently standing up for what is right. I too will not let "the man" push me around. Your attitude of capitulation and not making any waves is what has been a main reason for the steady erosion of our rights, not just the 2A. It also shows a statism that the government is superior and we inferior and that is just plain wrong.

Jeff Hayes · Apr 8, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
And Josh's case may very well give us a published court opinion in the end. My guess is the courts won't let it go that far and drop it.

Big Dog you are confusing arrogance with confidently standing up for what is right. I too will not let "the man" push me around. Your attitude of capitulation and not making any waves is what has been a main reason for the steady erosion of our rights, not just the 2A. It also shows a statism that the government is superior and we inferior and that is just plain wrong.

+1 There is something is very wrong when people are afraid to do legal things.

Vitaeus · Apr 8, 2011

Thank you Big Dog, your disagreement with the way to read this statute had me rereading it and I noticed something that no one else has pointed out

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and:

* (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person,
* (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or
* (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

section 2(a) carry OR PLACE

you can then place the firearm into the console, glove box, trunk, forehead as long as you are present in the car with your CPL or it is out of view and the car lockedor of course you have the option to wear it on your person and if it is kloaded or covered by your clothes you need a CPL.

MSG Laigaie · Apr 8, 2011

section 2(a) carry OR PLACE

Sounds like this arguement is over.

Ajetpilot · Apr 8, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
And Josh's case may very well give us a published court opinion in the end. My guess is the courts won't let it go that far and drop it.

Big Dog you are confusing arrogance with confidently standing up for what is right. I too will not let "the man" push me around. Your attitude of capitulation and not making any waves is what has been a main reason for the steady erosion of our rights, not just the 2A. It also shows a statism that the government is superior and we inferior and that is just plain wrong.

Orphan said:
+1 There is something is very wrong when people are afraid to do legal things..

MSG Laigaie said:
Sounds like this arguement is over.

Amen.

.45ACPaddy · Apr 8, 2011

Guess I better not express my opinion on here or else someone might come find me and beat the tar out of me!

"Oh, you got beat up? You want to report an assault? Well what happened?"
"I expressed my opinion and the person didn't like it, so they beat the tar out of me."
"Well that could have all just been avoided if you just chose not to exercise your first amendment rights."

Deleted_User · Apr 8, 2011

Well now

It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

It looks like it's time to break out the ...

The Big Dog · Apr 8, 2011

You Stand Corrected

Vitaeus said:
Please, correct me if I am gathering the wrong impression, but I doubt you Open Carry. You seem to enjoy someone else being wrongfully cited and convicted of a crime. Other than your initial post here, you have the makings of a fine internet troll. You certainly won't be improving the acceptance of Open Carry in the state of Washington, since I doubt you Open Carry.If you do, it will only be because of the actions of the folks like w07rolla, who is in the same category as Rosa Parks and many others who did nothing wrong and refused to "just cover up" or in her case "move to the back of the bus". You are welcome to your opinion, but expecting that the folks on this forum to share it is a bit unlikely.

Yes, you did gather the wrong impression and I do open carry at all times with very few exceptions. When it rains I tend to keep my pistol under my coat or if I plan to play hard with the booze I leave my pistol at home) No, I don’t enjoy the fact someone was cited and convicted of a crime. (Wrongfully has not been decided yet) So far I fail to see how getting cited and convicted of a crime does much good for Open Carry. To me, facing off with a cop to prove you can open carry is like stepping off the corner into the path of an oncoming bus just to prove every intersection is a crosswalk. In a perfect world you go about your way and the bus stops so you can cross the street, this is not always a perfect world as Josh found out. I don’t have deep enough pockets to pay for the lawyers needed for this kind of battle and I don’t have a trust for strangers to pay my bills. If money were no object I too would not need to use discretion and then maybe I could come off sounding as arrogant as many of you do. I will be interested in hearing more of your views as I read the forum and in person, as I do plan on being in Federal Way in the morning. Many will recognize me I’m certain. I’m too old, too fat and too out of shape to defend myself, that is why I carry a gun.

PS: I feel that I bring a lot to Open Carry for the simple fact I am not afraid to bring attention to myself. People always notice me and many ask questions about the gun I carry. Unlike many that wear dress shirts and slacks, have fresh hair cut, clean shaven with shined shoes looking like something out of GQ. Those people all look normal with a gun on their hip; they all look like undercover cops or detectives. Nobody has ever asked me if I am a cop. They say things like, "WOW, is that legal to carry a gun like that?" or "I'm a little surprised to see the gun." I'm always happy to pass along the fact that Open Carry is legal in Washington State, so I get the word out to many and often.

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