Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Sunrise Beach Park

  1. #1
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    Sunrise Beach Park

    I visited this Pierce County Park today and saw one of the old signs prohibiting firearms that should have been changed. I sent the following email to "Kent", kbasket@co.pierce.wa.us , who I believe is the contact person:

    Hello Kent,

    I read that you are the contact person for Pierce County Park signage regarding firearms restrictions. I visited Sunrise Beach County Park today, and saw the old sign which supposedly prohibits firearms possession within the park. Would you please ensure that the sign is changed?

    What would be an appropriate amount of time before I should check again to ensure that the sign has been replaced? I will be happy to report back to you.

    Many thanks,
    I'll post again when I get a response.

  2. #2
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington, United States
    Posts
    884
    Nice work. I expect you get a "budget restrictions" response. But it can't be too expensive for them to simply paint over that part of the sign.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    The Buck Has Been Passed

    Here is the response I received.

    Hi Bruce:
    Thanks for the heads up but we no longer have any ownership of the Parks on the Peninsula as 12/31/10 they became the Property of the Peninsula Metropolitan Park District . I will list all of their contact information below for you. Hope this helpful Bruce. Thanks
    Kent

    Contact Information:

    Peninsula Metropolitan Park District
    3622 Grandview Street
    Gig Harbor, Wa. 98335

    253 – 858 – 3400

    info@penmetparks.org
    This is going to be a little more difficult. It appears that local governments have turned over control of their parks to a private corporation. This could be viewed similarly to a government owned sports facility being managed by a private corporation that prohibits firearms.

    On the other hand, in reading the history it appears that it is a metropolitan parks district and a municipal corporation with taxing authority.

    Penmet Parks prohibits firearms on the 530 acres in the 14 parks that they manage. Here are two links:

    Home page: http://tinyurl.com/46fwyoa
    Park regulations: http://penmetparks.org/media//DIR_14...egulations.pdf

    Thoughts?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    "14.08.010 Title.
    This Section shall constitute the Park Code of the Peninsula Metropolitan Park District (PenMet Parks) and may be cited as such. Conduct in all public parks shall be subject to all the general police regulations of this Section and not exclusively to the provisions of this Section.
    14.08.020 Liberal Construction.
    This Section is an exercise of the police power of the State of Washington, Pierce County and PenMet Parks, for the public peace, health, safety and welfare, and its provisions shall be liberally construed."

    If they're a park district that is exercising power under Pierce County, I think they're going to have a hard time upholding that claim against preemption, especially if they're a municorp with taxing authority. Per 9.41.290 "Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities" are exempted, I don't see them getting free from that without a very dodgy legal play, though this may end up requiring lawsuits to settle.

    *edit* additionally, they're claiming misdemeanor punishment for mere violation of their code, hence are clearly in violation of preemption
    Last edited by Tawnos; 03-28-2011 at 08:13 PM.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Sent this:

    Mr. Lee,
    It has recently come to my attention that the Gig Harbor parks have been municipally incorporated under the PenMet Parks name. While investigating your use regulations, I came across 14.08.060(I), prohibiting possession of a loaded firearm on park grounds. As the park is a municipality that operates under Pierce County regulations, subject to the laws of the state of Washington, I wish to inform you that this code is preempted by Washington state law, 9.41.290, which provides the following:

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

    Per this law, I ask that you approach the board and bring PenMet Parks into line with state preemption, as the penalty proscribed in 14.08.130 clearly indicates you are an authority under controlling guidance of state law, exercising police power as a municipality. The provision for preventing discharge of a firearm does not appear to be preempted under 9.41.300, though it would need to allow for use of a firearm in self-defense. It appears the simplest way to amend this law to comply with state law is to either strike it (as other laws prevent unlawful discharge) or to amend it to remove those portions related to the bearing of arms.

    Thank you,
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  6. #6
    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Port Orchard Wa. /Granite Oklahoma
    Posts
    836

    Thumbs up

    Go get em TAWNOS
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

    DEMAND IT
    Congress SHALL NOT receive A salary greater than any service member and will be given EQUIVELANT insurance as any service member

    I came into this world kicking and screaming covered in someone else's blood. And if necessary to protect the Constitution of The United States of AMERICA. I will go out the same way

    All hail the Domain of Neptunus Rex

  7. #7
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    Very nice, Tawnos. I am going to start looking for all the letters I wrote to the Kitsap County Commissioners several years ago regard their parks code. Maybe I can cobble together something from those letters to send to PenMet Parks.

    Many thanks for your very well constructed email!

  8. #8
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    PenMet Parks Commissioners Meeting

    From their home page:

    The Board of Park Commissioners is scheduled to meet on Monday,
    April 4th at 6:00 p.m. at the PenMet Parks Administrative Office,
    3622 Grandview Street, Gig Harbor.


    I'm planning to attend. Anyone else free next Monday night?

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    From their home page:



    I'm planning to attend. Anyone else free next Monday night?
    I can be there in spirit....

    Go get em!!!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    Email sent

    To:
    tiverson@penmetparks.org,
    wsehmel@penmetparks.org,
    sjunge@penmetparks.org,
    chancock@penmetparks.org,
    jortgiesen@penmetparks.org
    ccinfo@penmetparks.org

    Members of the Board of Park Commissioners:

    My attention has recently been drawn to Peninsula Metropolitan
    Park District PARK USE REGULATIONS section 14.08.060 (I) which, inter alia, attempts to prohibit carrying loaded firearms in any PenMet park. I am referring to the wording, "Possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism..."

    The Revised Code of Washington 9.41.300 "Weapons prohibited in certain places - Local laws and ordinances -Exceptions - Penalty," prohibits carrying firearms in various places, such as the restricted areas of law enforcement facilities, court rooms, public mental health facilities, and bars. However, it does not restrict carrying loaded firearms in parks. Additionally, RCW 9.41.300 permits local jurisdictions to enact laws restricting the discharge of firearms in their jurisdictions; however, it does not permit local jurisdictions to enact laws that prohibit possession of loaded firearms in their jurisdictions.

    I draw your attention to RCW 9.41.290 "State Preemption," which reads in part, “Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.” Because section 14.08.060 (I) attempts to prohibit possession of loaded firearms within PenMet parks, it is inconsistent with, more restrictive than, and exceeds the requirements of state law. Therefore, that portion of the Park Use Regulations has already been preempted and repealed.

    I request that the Board of Park Commissioners change the wording of section 14.08.060 (I) by striking the words " Possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism..." to bring the regulation into compliance with Washington State Law.

    Respectfully,

  11. #11
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532
    It's important to emphasize the safety aspect of their placing a sign that does not follow state law.

    You cannot win a lawsuit against Wal-Mart if you slip and crack your skull open if Wal-Mart wasn't aware of the hazardous condition. Once someone informs Wal-Mart that someone spilled dish-washing soap in aisle three, they have a legal obligation to ensure it is removed in a timely manner.

    The same is true of the park. You need to inform them that you are filing a copy of your letter with an attorney (or anyone else reliable for that matter) and then their legal obligation begins. This is what got Pierce County off the pot; I politely informed them of what could happen if someone saw their sign and called the police. If the police responded and someone was hurt, and it could be shown that the whole event stemmed from their sign, that they would hold the legal liability.
    Last edited by Mainsail; 03-28-2011 at 11:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    Good point, Mainsail. I'll cover that aspect in my next email. Thanks!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Response:
    <>

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I have shared your comments and concerns with the board and our attorney. I will be meeting with the President of the Board today to consider next steps and would be glad to share that information with you once a course of action has been determined.

    Regards

    Terry
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  14. #14
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    My response:

    Mr. XXXXXXXX,
    I will ask our executive director to review this policy and get back with you. Thank you for your interest. Scott Junge

  15. #15
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    I'll be at the meeting tonight, and I will sign up to speak. I will be OC. I do not anticipate any problems, but you never know. If anyone else would like to attend, here is the info:

    The Board of Park Commissioners is scheduled to meet on Monday,
    April 4th at 6:00 p.m. at the PenMet Parks Administrative Office,
    3622 Grandview Street, Gig Harbor. There will also be a study session at 5:00 p.m.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I'll be at the meeting tonight, and I will sign up to speak. I will be OC. I do not anticipate any problems, but you never know. If anyone else would like to attend, here is the info:
    Too bad it's such a far distance and my bday. Else I might make it
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  17. #17
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    Boy, that was easy.

    I was almost through with my allotted three minutes of comments, when I was interrupted. The moderator said that they had passed my email to their attorney, and he agreed with me. They have already contacted Pierce County, and PenMet Parks will use Pierce County's wording in their parks' regulations.

    It seems the more of these laws that we are able to change, the easier it is to get the next governmental body to come into compliance with state law.

    Thanks Tawnos (and Happy Birthday) and any others who wrote email.

    Another one bites the dust.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I was almost through with my allotted three minutes of comments, when I was interrupted. The moderator said that they had passed my email to their attorney, and he agreed with me. They have already contacted Pierce County, and PenMet Parks will use Pierce County's wording in their parks' regulations.

    It seems the more of these laws that we are able to change, the easier it is to get the next governmental body to come into compliance with state law.

    Thanks Tawnos (and Happy Birthday) and any others who wrote email.

    Another one bites the dust.
    Nice job Bruce!
    Live Free or Die!

  19. #19
    Regular Member HK_dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Puyallup, WA
    Posts
    144
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	easy-button.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	9.5 KB 
ID:	5625
    US Constitution - void where prohibited by law.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    1,424
    Great Job!

    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Great job! Where is the other gun guys and groups? This group get's so much more accomplished. Thanks Bruce.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    The moderator said that they had passed my email to their attorney, and he agreed with me.
    What? A government attorney that actually knows what the law reads? Who knows, he might start a trend.

    Good job!
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •