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Thread: cc in church

  1. #1
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    cc in church

    i plan on asking my pastor if i can carry in church, i was woundering if the law allows for cc in church with the pastor permision
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  2. #2
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    Yes

    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.Sec. 5o.
    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:


    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-28-2011 at 07:40 PM.

  3. #3
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    They missed both the first and second amendments with this law.

  4. #4
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    thanks for the responses ill have that talk with my pastor before next sunday
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oohrahboy View Post
    thanks for the responses ill have that talk with my pastor before next sunday
    Please be sure your Pastor is the "presiding official" of the church. Some churches have Boards that are the actual power behind the Pastor/Minister/etc.......... and the permission of the Board is needed... not just the Pastor.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Get it in writing! See also Luke 22:36

    And Welcome
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-28-2011 at 08:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Too bad you didn't live closer; I'd welcome you to the church Sprinklerguy and I go to.

    I'd been meaning to check the church out that I had recently started attending for a number of years,due to it's name, sign, and website (listening to pre-recorded services; very good message) and got an invite 2 weeks ago from Sprinklerguy. I found out they're OC friendly, was hooked after the first service, and I'm back on the path I need to be on.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Thats good to hear, could use a little polishing myself.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Thats good to hear, could use a little polishing myself.
    Stainless steel don't need much polish...
    Last edited by Venator; 03-29-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Nice thing (hehe) about churches is there are a bazillion of them...and most of them don't have metal detectors.

    In Va the statute is 'without sufficient cause' making it vague (probably intentional). It use to be in Va that taking a gun to church was mandatory. There's an interesting back story (scroll down to mid-page) to that and here's a link with that and more. Again, sorry to be posting Va law in the Michigan forum, but it gives perspective and Mods may move if they wish.

    http://vagunforum.net/virginia-laws/...law-t6510.html

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Nice thing (hehe) about churches is there are a bazillion of them...and most of them don't have metal detectors.

    In Va the statute is 'without sufficient cause' making it vague (probably intentional). It use to be in Va that taking a gun to church was mandatory. There's an interesting back story (scroll down to mid-page) to that and here's a link with that and more. Again, sorry to be posting Va law in the Michigan forum, but it gives perspective and Mods may move if they wish.

    http://vagunforum.net/virginia-laws/...law-t6510.html
    I recall reading a story in the news a decade or so ago. Seems some guy in a New England state caused a minor ruckus when he brought his rifle to church. Everyone was all upset and everything, and then he pointed out how EVERYONE else in the church had been violating the law by NOT bringing a rifle to church. Seems there was still a law on the books, from about 200 or so years ago that made it mandatory that every male church member bring a gun to church....in case of an Indian attack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Please be sure your Pastor is the "presiding official" of the church. Some churches have Boards that are the actual power behind the Pastor/Minister/etc.......... and the permission of the Board is needed... not just the Pastor.
    we dont have a board, our church is new we just started last year after we broke up with our other church because they were not following the bible and the tenants of christianity anymore. i would consider myself a founding member
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    then give yourself permission
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    then give yourself permission
    What he said....

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    Can't, the first amendment doesn't mean any more to the .gov than the second. Since you can't CC either, the fourth went out the window as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Can't, the first amendment doesn't mean any more to the .gov than the second. Since you can't CC either, the fourth went out the window as well.
    I thought all you needed was permission for someone of authority and being a founding member puts him in that status....
    Last edited by Sheldon; 04-05-2011 at 12:21 PM.

  17. #17
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    I think so to.

    According to the Christian doctrine, any Christian has the authority to make those decisions. All men have access to God through Jesus Christ, (For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.) so no building is really a church. The church is the people. IIRC, it was either Moses or Abraham that wanted to build a church first, and God laughed saying, (paraphrased) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    The first amendment is supposed to protect us from these intrusions and regulations, but it clearly does not.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 04-05-2011 at 02:48 PM.

  18. #18
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    the building being labeled as the church is purely political.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  19. #19
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    yep, taxes and whatnot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I think so to.

    According to the Christian doctrine, any Christian has the authority to make those decisions. All men have access to God through Jesus Christ, (For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.) so no building is really a church. The church is the people. IIRC, it was either Moses or Abraham that wanted to build a church first, and God laughed saying, (paraphrased) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    The first amendment is supposed to protect us from these intrusions and regulations, but it clearly does not.
    The word translated "church" by most early-modern English translations (due to political pressure from the established religions of the time) is actually the Greek word Ekklesia. A more literal translation is "out calling", thus an assembly or gathering of separated believers. The word "church" or "place of worship" in the law carries with it the same definition that almost all sects of Christianity teach. It is, unfortunately, incorrect (as you already pointed out).

    The same religious influence corrupted the word "baptize" as well. Instead of translating it "dip" or "submerse", they stuck with transliteration (baptizo to baptize) so that they wouldn't piss of those who practiced sprinkling at the time (no pun intended).

    Off topic rant brought to you by a Christian who hates religion. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
    Last edited by kubel; 04-07-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I think so to.

    According to the Christian doctrine, any Christian has the authority to make those decisions. All men have access to God through Jesus Christ, (For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.) so no building is really a church. The church is the people. IIRC, it was either Moses or Abraham that wanted to build a church first, and God laughed saying, (paraphrased) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    The first amendment is supposed to protect us from these intrusions and regulations, but it clearly does not.
    Although I don't believe it to be explicit "doctrine", I have always thought about the "No Concealed Carry in a Church" in this exact way. Wait until I tell you that I think that, since I have a propietary right (tenure) in my job, I am allowed to...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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