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Thread: So you shoot someone in defense of your life, now what?

  1. #1
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    So you shoot someone in defense of your life, now what?

    Regardless of how you are carrying, or even where. What do you do after the shooting to insure you don't go to prison...or at least lower your chances.

    If this is already covered, I could not find it. Please point me in the right direction.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Regardless of how you are carrying, or even where. What do you do after the shooting to insure you don't go to prison...or at least lower your chances.

    If this is already covered, I could not find it. Please point me in the right direction.

    Thanks.
    What did Michael Bender say?

  3. #3
    Regular Member civilwarguy's Avatar
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    Plain and simple if its me or them its gonna be them! As far as avoiding going away for life.... If i dont act then i would be dead so i would rather take my chances. I would know what i did was right and to me thats all that matters.


    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    On the very practical side - except for saying that you will not answer any questions without first consulting an attorney, remember that it is OK to give them your name and address so you do not stay extra long while they run finger prints to ID you. Expect to be detained (probably in handcuffs) for a while until the cops have sorted stuff out enough to have an idea who is the victim and who is the perpetrator - and that they might get it backwards. Expect any request for medical attention that does not involve loss of lots of blood or you stopping breathing to take a while to be responded to, and it will be very basic as compared to what you might expect to get in the Emergency Room if you went there on your own (without the cops as escort).

    If you get to telephone friends/relatives do not tell them everything that happened leading up to your current situation. Stick to 1) you need a lawyer, 2) you need a bail bondsman, 3) you will tell them details after you have talked with an attorney. You might need to add 4) where to go to pick up your car/personal effects if you are going to be an overnight guest.

    Remember that your Miranda/Edwards rights limit what/when the cops can ask you. If you decide to say anything they can and will use it against you if there is any possible way to do so. They want to to talk - even if you have asked for an attorney and they do not ask you questions.

    Personal advice from me to you (and worth twice what you have paid me for it) is to be polite and cooperative with the cops and the process they are putting you through. You have options - basically do it their way without totally abasing yourself, or try to convince them you are a tough guy and wind up doing it their way anyhow - but only after some motivational discussions if you get my meaning.

    Final words? DO NOT tamper with evidence. Do not try to hide or change the position of anything. If you have shot someone you need to be really sure of what impact rendering first aid may have on evidence and helping the cops understand the crime scene, as well as determining if the assailant is really posing no threat if you get close enough to render first aid. Also remember that providing any first aid probably means being exposed to blood-borne pathogens and you may not have the equipment to protect yourself. Calling 9-1-1 and requesting an ambulance may be the better thing for all concerned (you, the assailant, the cops, your family and the medical care providers).

    This ought to get you through the first few hours to the first 24 hours. After that your attorney will be a much better source of information and guidance.

    stay safe.

  6. #6
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    What did Michael Bender say?
    Ha! I knew that was coming. He mentioned that your phone will be as important as your gun, but not much more then that.

    Thanks skidmark!

    I am surprised that there is not a "After the threat had ceased" sticky at the top of on of the pages. When you call the cops, what to and not to say, that sort of thing. I read one guy say that you carry a gun for security, not protection as the law sees those two reasons differently. This sounds like good info, but there has to be more and I would think a group like this has it...somewhere.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland
    What do you do after the shooting to insure you don't go to prison... or at least lower your chances.
    Call 911.
    1) Address or intersection
    2) I need police & an ambulance
    3) I was attacked & (feared for my life) "thought he was going to kill me!!"
    4) I defended myself
    5) My attacker is hurt
    6) Send help!!! Repeat address or intersection.

    Note that 2-5 you're simply telling what happened, so it shouldn't be hard to remember.
    I think saying "I defended myself" is better than "I shot him" for a couple of reasons. First, it establishes that you were acting in self-defense. Second, when cops hear "gun" or "shot" they start acting strange. Don't give them time to get keyed up on the drive there.

    Put the gun in the holster (once you can make yourself let go, & only if you're reasonably sure the attacker won't come at you again).

    Get on another phone to your lawyer, or once cops get near, hang up your 911 call & dial the lawyer.

    And as hard as it would be for me, I wouldn't go near the attacker to try to give him first aid or even see if I could tell the calltaker if he was still breathing. He tried to kill me!! I'm not going near him. (Aside from the tampering w/ evidence angle, & the disease angle.)

    Once the cops get there, flag them down, point out "That's the guy who attacked me! Please get the ambulance here fast!" (Because I promise you the ambulance crew is waiting just out of range until the police tell them it's safe to come in.)

    Other than giving your name, etc.,
    and confirming that he attacked you, you were in fear for your life, and so on,
    tell them you're really shaken up & will talk to them after you calm down a bit.
    If your lawyer is on the way (lucky you), mention that you'll talk after s/he arrives.

    Point out witnesses the police should talk to before they walk away.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-28-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Call 911.
    1) Address or intersection
    2) I need police & an ambulance
    3) I was attacked & (feared for my life) "thought he was going to kill me!!"
    4) I defended myself
    5) My attacker is hurt
    6) Send help!!! Repeat address or intersection.

    Note that 2-5 you're simply telling what happened, so it shouldn't be hard to remember.
    I think saying "I defended myself" is better than "I shot him" for a couple of reasons. First, it establishes that you were acting in self-defense. Second, when cops hear "gun" or "shot" they start acting strange. Don't give them time to get keyed up on the drive there.

    Put the gun in the holster (once you can make yourself let go, & only if you're reasonably sure the attacker won't come at you again).

    Get on another phone to your lawyer, or once cops get near, hang up your 911 call & dial the lawyer.

    And as hard as it would be for me, I wouldn't go near the attacker to try to give him first aid or even see if I could tell the calltaker if he was still breathing. He tried to kill me!! I'm not going near him. (Aside from the tampering w/ evidence angle, & the disease angle.)

    Once the cops get there, flag them down, point out "That's the guy who attacked me! Please get the ambulance here fast!" (Because I promise you the ambulance crew is waiting just out of range until the police tell them it's safe to come in.)

    Other than giving your name, etc.,
    and confirming that he attacked you, you were in fear for your life, and so on,
    tell them you're really shaken up & will talk to them after you calm down a bit.
    If your lawyer is on the way (lucky you), mention that you'll talk after s/he arrives.

    Point out witnesses the police should talk to before they walk away.
    Too much information IMO, remember this is going to be a very stressful situation, and you will most likely say something to damage your credibility and or position. 911 calls are recorded and used in court. what you say on the phone can and will be used against you.

    I suggest consulting with an attorney now, and understanding very clearly what your attorney suggests you do, and do not do if you are ever unlucky enough to be forced to draw your firearm in defense.

  9. #9
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Can anyone suggest an attorney with real experience in this issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Regardless of how you are carrying, or even where. What do you do after the shooting to insure you don't go to prison...or at least lower your chances.

    If this is already covered, I could not find it. Please point me in the right direction.

    Thanks.
    Start with this, http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...ayes-SDLaw.pdf

  11. #11
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    i know the answer to the thread title! if it's milwaukee, they put you up on murder charges. self defense is NOT a crime.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote...

    "I suggest consulting with an attorney now, and understanding very clearly what your attorney suggests you do, and do not do if you are ever unlucky enough to be forced to draw your firearm in defense."

    Qualifies for the best answer of the year award....(If there was one...)

    Outdoorsman

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    now what ? Prepare to go very broke paying off your lawyer $ 20,000 -$ 40,000 is what you can expect to pay for your freedom...... you hope...... I mean so broke you have to Cash in your 401K OR sell the house... not be able to pay your bills, rent, food, car payment. after wards just declare Bankruptcy I guess. you will be out of Prison if you have a good GUN Lawyer, Contact Massad Ayoob for a good referral.......but you will be living in a cardboard box after...
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Exclamation Not If Wisconsin Had A Good "Castle Doctrine"

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    now what ? Prepare to go very broke paying off your lawyer $ 20,000 -$ 40,000 is what you can expect to pay for your freedom...... you hope...... I mean so broke you have to Cash in your 401K OR sell the house... not be able to pay your bills, rent, food, car payment. after wards just declare Bankruptcy I guess. you will be out of Prison if you have a good GUN Lawyer, Contact Massad Ayoob for a good referral.......but you will be living in a cardboard box after...
    Too true Glock34! Unless we DEMAND we institute a Castle Doctrine similar or EXACTLY like Florida's. In Florida you CANNOT be charged with a crime for defending yourself, your family or others AND you CANNOT be sued in Civil court by the perpetrator OR his/her family. Every state should have a Castle Doctrine identical to Florida's!

    We must have the Castle Doctrine in Wisconsin AND have Constitutional Carry....Period.

  15. #15
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Call 911.
    1) Address or intersection
    2) I need police & an ambulance
    3) I was attacked & (feared for my life) "thought he was going to kill me!!"
    4) I defended myself
    5) My attacker is hurt
    6) Send help!!! Repeat address or intersection.

    Note that 2-5 you're simply telling what happened, so it shouldn't be hard to remember.
    I think saying "I defended myself" is better than "I shot him" for a couple of reasons. First, it establishes that you were acting in self-defense. Second, when cops hear "gun" or "shot" they start acting strange. Don't give them time to get keyed up on the drive there.

    Put the gun in the holster (once you can make yourself let go, & only if you're reasonably sure the attacker won't come at you again).

    Get on another phone to your lawyer, or once cops get near, hang up your 911 call & dial the lawyer.

    And as hard as it would be for me, I wouldn't go near the attacker to try to give him first aid or even see if I could tell the calltaker if he was still breathing. He tried to kill me!! I'm not going near him. (Aside from the tampering w/ evidence angle, & the disease angle.)

    Once the cops get there, flag them down, point out "That's the guy who attacked me! Please get the ambulance here fast!" (Because I promise you the ambulance crew is waiting just out of range until the police tell them it's safe to come in.)

    Other than giving your name, etc.,
    and confirming that he attacked you, you were in fear for your life, and so on,
    tell them you're really shaken up & will talk to them after you calm down a bit.
    If your lawyer is on the way (lucky you), mention that you'll talk after s/he arrives.

    Point out witnesses the police should talk to before they walk away.
    I have come to the conclusion that to call 911 is bad advice unless you are in Arizona.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    Too true Glock34! Unless we DEMAND we institute a Castle Doctrine similar or EXACTLY like Florida's. In Florida you CANNOT be charged with a crime for defending yourself, your family or others AND you CANNOT be sued in Civil court by the perpetrator OR his/her family. Every state should have a Castle Doctrine identical to Florida's!

    We must have the Castle Doctrine in Wisconsin AND have Constitutional Carry....Period.
    Since you missed the meeting , Nik had said once the bill is submitted, WI will have the best Castle Doctrine in the entire country.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleveland View Post
    Regardless of how you are carrying, or even where. What do you do after the shooting to insure you don't go to prison...or at least lower your chances.

    If this is already covered, I could not find it. Please point me in the right direction.

    Thanks.
    There is a book that has an interesting view point on this.
    " After You Shoot: Your gun's hot. The perp's not. Now what? "

    I would recommend talking to a lawyer at some point, but it is a really good question to ask BEFORE something happens.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    When my wife and I first made the commitment to use everything available to protect ourselves, I did a lot of reading on VA laws, paying close attention to the Castle Doctrine and lack thereof.

    Which led me to:

    Umbrella policy from USAA.

    $244 per year = ~1.5 million (and change) in civil coverage.

    I bought the policy, I bought a gun (two actually). Same day, in that order.

    Made absolutely clear with the company that it will protect me and my family in the even we get sued in the aftermath of self defense.

    In a SD event, the absolute LAST thing I ever want running through my brain is dollar signs. I don't want to lose my wife or my own life because I was too scared of being sued.

  19. #19
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    1) Have a witness call 911. (Take charge of the scene, shows witnesses your not the bad guy)
    2) Document the witnesses, names and phone numbers. (Get these on your recorder)
    3) When the LEO's show up DON"T get yourself shot.
    4) Tell the LEO's you were attacked.
    5) Point out the attackers weapon.
    6) Tell the LEO's you will sign a complaint.
    7) Tell the LEO's to Ask your lawyer any questions they have. (after you ask for him).

    Shut your mouth. Shut your mouth.
    Don't speak.
    Don't speak EXCEPT to your lawyer.
    The LEO's are not your friend, no matter what they say to you.

    Remember the LEO's by law are allowed to lie to you.

    JJC
    Last edited by JJC; 03-29-2011 at 09:41 PM.

  20. #20
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    All very good answers.

    One thing I did take away from Benders class (besides my Utah permit paperwork) was he said to have them take you to the hospital. I'm sure if I was ever in this situation I would probably nearly be having a heart attack! It's better if the witnesses see you leave in an ambulance rather than a cop car. It can help them remeber who the victim is.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Since you missed the meeting , Nik had said once the bill is submitted, WI will have the best Castle Doctrine in the entire country.
    So Nik has inside knowledge that a Castle doctrine will be included in the language of the upcoming CCW bill ?
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  22. #22
    Regular Member civilwarguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    So Nik has inside knowledge that a Castle doctrine will be included in the language of the upcoming CCW bill ?
    from what i understood its gonna be a separate bill

  23. #23
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Call 911.
    1) Address or intersection
    2) I need police & an ambulance
    3) I was attacked & (feared for my life) "thought he was going to kill me!!"
    4) I defended myself
    5) My attacker is hurt
    6) Send help!!! Repeat address or intersection.

    Note that 2-5 you're simply telling what happened, so it shouldn't be hard to remember.
    I think saying "I defended myself" is better than "I shot him" for a couple of reasons. First, it establishes that you were acting in self-defense. Second, when cops hear "gun" or "shot" they start acting strange. Don't give them time to get keyed up on the drive there.

    Put the gun in the holster (once you can make yourself let go, & only if you're reasonably sure the attacker won't come at you again).

    Get on another phone to your lawyer, or once cops get near, hang up your 911 call & dial the lawyer.

    And as hard as it would be for me, I wouldn't go near the attacker to try to give him first aid or even see if I could tell the calltaker if he was still breathing. He tried to kill me!! I'm not going near him. (Aside from the tampering w/ evidence angle, & the disease angle.)

    Once the cops get there, flag them down, point out "That's the guy who attacked me! Please get the ambulance here fast!" (Because I promise you the ambulance crew is waiting just out of range until the police tell them it's safe to come in.)

    Other than giving your name, etc.,
    and confirming that he attacked you, you were in fear for your life, and so on,
    tell them you're really shaken up & will talk to them after you calm down a bit.
    If your lawyer is on the way (lucky you), mention that you'll talk after s/he arrives.

    Point out witnesses the police should talk to before they walk away.
    I would also tell the police that I want the person that I shot ARRESTED! (Even if his head has been "blown clean off" with a .44 magnum.)

    Remember the police will take note of anything you say. If you choose to say anything, think carefully. If you're not in a mental state to think carefully, better not to say anything. But is favorable to you when a responding officer is asked if you made any statements and he looks at his notebook and says "Yeah, he said he wanted the guy on the ground arrested."
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  24. #24
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    I would also tell the police that I want the person that I shot ARRESTED! (Even if his head has been "blown clean off" with a .44 magnum.)

    Remember the police will take note of anything you say. If you choose to say anything, think carefully. If you're not in a mental state to think carefully, better not to say anything. But is favorable to you when a responding officer is asked if you made any statements and he looks at his notebook and says "Yeah, he said he wanted the guy on the ground arrested."
    Good Thinking Shotgun !!! I see your point....

    But I can almost see the entire PD here and a few other places falling to the ground laughing their a+sses off.

    LR Yote
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    - Frank Outlaw

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    Good Thinking Shotgun !!! I see your point....

    But I can almost see the entire PD here and a few other places falling to the ground laughing their a+sses off.

    LR Yote
    After you arrest him, I will ID him in a line up too !!!!! Equal Laughing by cops Ummm sir....that 12 gauge of yours took his head clean off.......nothing to ID.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 03-30-2011 at 01:22 AM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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