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Thread: Upcoming Rummage O Ramma (HUGE "Rummage Sale") at State Fair Park...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Upcoming Rummage O Ramma (HUGE "Rummage Sale") at State Fair Park...

    As they sell beer and wine at this event (in specified areas), Here is my E-mail to their "Contact Us" form their website... I did include my name and contact number... I will update if I receive a reply...

    Open Carry at Upcoming Event
    Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:34 PM
    From: ******

    To:
    info@rummage-a-rama.com
    I have attended your Rummage-O Rama's in the past. As I recently became involved in the "Wisconsin Open Carry" movement I would appreciate your permission to exercise my legal and constitutional right to protect myself by open carrying my pistol at your event coming up this weekend at state fair park... To be legal, my weapon must be carried in a holster on my hip and in plain view (not concealed). Please check out the link below for confirmation of this fact and more info on the subject. Actually I do not need permission as it is legal, but to avoid any hassles from management or LEO (law enforcement officers); your permission will ensure my attending the event. As I would be traveling form Silver Lake WI (Kenosha Co.) (About a 45 minute drive), I would appreciate a fast reply (after you have reviewed the link), as to not have to make the drive and then be refused entrance at the door.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...?133-Wisconsin

    To be clear... I am experienced in open carrying my weapon in many public places ranger from crowded grocery stores to crowded restaurants and everything in between.

    Thank you for your prompt response on this matter. If you have any questions or would like to discuss this matter further, fell free to give me a call.

    ************
    ******* Cell ok to call anytime...
    Member Wisconsin Carry Inc.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Open Carry at Upcoming Event
    Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:34 PM
    From: ******

    To:
    info@rummage-a-rama.com
    I have attended your Rummage-O Rama's in the past. As I recently became involved in the "Wisconsin Open Carry" movement I would appreciate your permission to exercise my legal and constitutional right to protect myself by open carrying my pistol at your event coming up this weekend at state fair park... To be legal, my weapon must be carried in a holster on my hip and in plain view (not concealed). Please check out the link below for confirmation of this fact and more info on the subject. Actually I do not need permission as it is legal, but to avoid any hassles from management or LEO (law enforcement officers); your permission will ensure my attending the event. As I would be traveling form Silver Lake WI (Kenosha Co.) (About a 45 minute drive), I would appreciate a fast reply (after you have reviewed the link), as to not have to make the drive and then be refused entrance at the door.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...?133-Wisconsin

    To be clear... I am experienced in open carrying my weapon in many public places ranger from crowded grocery stores to crowded restaurants and everything in between.

    Thank you for your prompt response on this matter. If you have any questions or would like to discuss this matter further, fell free to give me a call.

    ************
    ******* Cell ok to call anytime...
    Member Wisconsin Carry Inc.
    Looks good just a couple typos

  3. #3
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Yea... I noticed that after I hit send...... Duh....

    Outdoorsman1

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Yea... I noticed that after I hit send...... Duh....

    Outdoorsman1
    If only spellcheck would catch correctly spelled words that don't belong... it would be useful!

    I do it all the time bud don't worry about it.

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    "To be legal, my weapon must be carried in a holster on my hip and in plain view (not concealed)."
    ...?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Yea.. my real name is such that spell check does not recognize it and offers "Oldie" as a suggestion... True story...

    Outdoorsman1

  7. #7
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    "To be legal, my weapon must be carried in a holster on my hip and in plain view (not concealed)."
    ...?
    ????

    I was explaining the only way to carry a weapon legally in public....

    I suppose a in plain view shoulder holster would also be legal, but I did not want to overboad with details...

    Your question...???

    Outdoorsman1

  8. #8
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Update on original topic...

    Wow.. I was surprised that I received a reply within 1 hr. of e-mailing my question...

    I just got a call from the person in charge of the event. He is a strong supporter of constitutional and legal rights. After checking out the link to this website he was a little confused as to the legality of OC in a place that serves alcohol. We discussed his concerns and I pointed out that it was in fact legal with permission (why I e-mailed him in the first place)... He then had questions on actually who could give permission. I explained that management, owner, or who’s name actually appears on the Class B license. I actually directed him to my link, and then to the "New to OC in Wisconsin Thread" then to the actual list of the State Statutes and then to the actual link for the 941.237 statute, we discussed in detail reading the actual statue. Then it was about him renting the space and could permission come from the renter or would it have to come from the owner. I explained that the way I understood previous discussions in here, that a renter has the ability to give the permission as in a businessman who rents a building to operate a tavern, has the authority to give permission. Then it was about the fact that the actual building was a public building. We talked about it not being legal in government buildings, school zones, state parks, but as it was it legal, then legal in public buildings. Then he said he understood all the information but was going to call the "State Fair Police" to ask them my question. I asked the question if they were actual LEO or hired security... he reassured me they were or at one time were actual LEO.

    Before I finished typing this update he called back and said that they State Fair LEO informed him that OC was not allowed in State Fair Park as it is owned by the state of Wisconsin..?? And they provided him this link to the state statute covering this. I have not yet read the link so I will be reading it for the first time after I post this update...

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/cod...fp/2/14?down=1

    All in all I was impressed by his interest and seemly willingness to give permission until he spoke to the LEO and received their link... I thanked him for his interest and that as the decision was out of his hands that I would be attending his event with my weapon locked in the car...

    I will see if I can make the time...

    Outdoorsman1

    PS:… Thank goodness for spell check….

  9. #9
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    The link takes us to State Statutes regarding State Fair Park....

    Here is the actual statute reference to the issue at hand...

    (9) Carrying or possession of dangerous weapons. No person may carry, possess or use any dangerous weapon, except with the written approval of the chief of police or his or her designee or for law enforcement purposes. Dangerous weapons not approved by the chief of police may be confiscated by a police officer.

    Thoughts...????

    Outdoorsman1

  10. #10
    Regular Member civilwarguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Wow.. I was surprised that I received a reply within 1 hr. of e-mailing my question...

    I just got a call from the person in charge of the event. He is a strong supporter of constitutional and legal rights. After checking out the link to this website he was a little confused as to the legality of OC in a place that serves alcohol. We discussed his concerns and I pointed out that it was in fact legal with permission (why I e-mailed him in the first place)... He then had questions on actually who could give permission. I explained that management, owner, or who’s name actually appears on the Class B license. I actually directed him to my link, and then to the "New to OC in Wisconsin Thread" then to the actual list of the State Statutes and then to the actual link for the 941.237 statute, we discussed in detail reading the actual statue. Then it was about him renting the space and could permission come from the renter or would it have to come from the owner. I explained that the way I understood previous discussions in here, that a renter has the ability to give the permission as in a businessman who rents a building to operate a tavern, has the authority to give permission. Then it was about the fact that the actual building was a public building. We talked about it not being legal in government buildings, school zones, state parks, but as it was it legal, then legal in public buildings. Then he said he understood all the information but was going to call the "State Fair Police" to ask them my question. I asked the question if they were actual LEO or hired security... he reassured me they were or at one time were actual LEO.

    Before I finished typing this update he called back and said that they State Fair LEO informed him that OC was not allowed in State Fair Park as it is owned by the state of Wisconsin..?? And they provided him this link to the state statute covering this. I have not yet read the link so I will be reading it for the first time after I post this update...

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/cod...fp/2/14?down=1

    All in all I was impressed by his interest and seemly willingness to give permission until he spoke to the LEO and received their link... I thanked him for his interest and that as the decision was out of his hands that I would be attending his event with my weapon locked in the car...

    I will see if I can make the time...

    Outdoorsman1

    PS:… Thank goodness for spell check….
    Maybe i am misreading this but my understanding is the chief doesnt want to give permission cause if i am correct in my understanding it is legal to carry it if you have permission..... still seems odd that they felt the need to put concealed in there when all weapon carry is banned.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    I had to laugh a little at the discription of a "Dangerous Weapon"....

    Definition. In this section, "dangerous weapon" means any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm, any electric weapon as defined in s. 941.295 (4), Stats., or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm. Dangerous weapon includes: blackjack, billy, standclub, sandbag, bludgeon, nunchaku sticks, throwing stars, sling shot, any instrument which impels a missile by compressed air, spring, or blank cartridges are used, crossknuckles, knuckles of any metal, barbed or blade type arrowhead, bowie knife, dirk knife, dirk, dagger, switch blade that may be drawn without the necessity of contact with the blade itself or is automatically opened by pressure on the handle or some other part of the knife and is commonly known as a switch blade knife, straight-edge razor or any other knife having a blade 3 inches or longer.

    I would hate to be arrested for carrying a concealed (or open) "sandbag"....

    Outdoorsman1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    I had to laugh a little at the discription of a "Dangerous Weapon"....

    Definition. In this section, "dangerous weapon" means any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm, any electric weapon as defined in s. 941.295 (4), Stats., or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm. Dangerous weapon includes: blackjack, billy, standclub, sandbag, bludgeon, nunchaku sticks, throwing stars, sling shot, any instrument which impels a missile by compressed air, spring, or blank cartridges are used, crossknuckles, knuckles of any metal, barbed or blade type arrowhead, bowie knife, dirk knife, dirk, dagger, switch blade that may be drawn without the necessity of contact with the blade itself or is automatically opened by pressure on the handle or some other part of the knife and is commonly known as a switch blade knife, straight-edge razor or any other knife having a blade 3 inches or longer.

    I would hate to be arrested for carrying a concealed (or open) "sandbag"....

    Outdoorsman1
    In our area alone in the last month or so, golf clubs and serving forks were "declared" dangerous weapons and people were charged. Cases still pending.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    This is a wonderful example of law writting by the LRB, they put everything in a law they can find, and then the legislature adopts. You are hunting, your knife has a 3" blade and it's under your jacket. You get stopped by the DNR and then??

    The LRB is not our friend. In their continuing attempts to impress legislators, they will try to get as many prohibitions as they can get away with in any carry legislation. WAVE is advocating using New Jersey legislation as a model. Watch the Madison - Milwaukee group push for pieces from there to be incorporated.
    Last edited by Flipper; 03-29-2011 at 06:43 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  14. #14
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    The
    State Fair Park Police Department is an actual law enforcement agency (not security). Rummageorama takes place in the Wisconsin Products Pavilion, which is a government owned building. Also, the park is state property, not part of a city/town/village or county, so the state firearms preemption law has no effect. So the park can get away with having anti-firearm ordinances.

    Also, the liquor license situation within the park is unique. All vendors fall under one liquor license: the one held by the park. And the SFPPD is in charge of alcohol compliance and such. Anyone giving permission to be armed is going to find themselves not allowed to sell alcohol at their events ($$$$). Plus, such a person will have no authority to allow you to carry in a government owned building or anywhere in the park inside or out.

    In other words, until state law is changed, you're SOL.


    http://www.wistatefair.com/park_info/police.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    I have a friend who's applying to the WI State Fair law enforcement, I hope he gets it, but he tends to drive me nuts when it comes to politics. Still a good friend nonetheless.
    Join Wisconsin Carry today, defend your rights!

    Wisconsin Carry member since March, 2011

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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