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Thread: HB1016 Suppressors Bill Passes

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    HB1016 Suppressors Bill Passes

    It appears that this bill has now passed in the Senate....it does not need to be signed by the Gov.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2011&bill=1016

    Effective Date: Ninety days after adjournment of session in which bill is passed.
    Last edited by jt59; 03-29-2011 at 04:15 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    It's all greek to me. How soon can I get a suppressor for my AR?

    Hold the phone. Does this mean that my Kershaw Blur would be illegal? It assist opening knife. It bothers me, as usual, that LEO's are given exception to the blade rule. It should be the same rules for everyone.
    Last edited by gsx1138; 03-29-2011 at 05:23 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    It's all greek to me. How soon can I get a suppressor for my AR?
    Just as soon as you go through all the Federal Hoops that are required.

    To legally purchase a silencer or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in. Once a product and price have been settled on, the Class 3 dealer will provide the prospective purchaser with duplicate ATF Form 4's and two sets of fingerprint cards. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer* sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because as it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir with no tax incurred.

    Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Silencers can be transported to other states that allow their ownership, but to transport a silencer into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges.

    If you are purchasing the suppressor for your "Corporation" or "Trust" you don't need the CLEO signature but you still need to wait for the "red tape express".

    So as I see it, you can go place your order today. Even if the paperwork goes through without a hitch, and you get the suppressor purchase approved sooner than the law takes effect (90 days), it's legal to own now. Just wait until the law is in effect before you shoot through it. Make note of the paperwork being in possession all the time you are in possession of the suppressor.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Thank you. Now I just need money. The only issue I see is getting a CLEO to sign off on one. Oh, and the money thing.

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    Regular Member sigfan's Avatar
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    Vote Roll Call
    http://flooractivityext.leg.wa.gov/r...5847&bienId=21

    Don't forget to call your State Senators to thank them for their support. Also thank those in the House:
    http://flooractivityext.leg.wa.gov/r...5188&bienId=21
    Semi-retired account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    It's all greek to me. How soon can I get a suppressor for my AR?

    Hold the phone. Does this mean that my Kershaw Blur would be illegal? It assist opening knife. It bothers me, as usual, that LEO's are given exception to the blade rule. It should be the same rules for everyone.
    Spring assist knives have been and are still legal. The only change to the law is the exception regarding suppressors that are owned in accordance with Federal law.

    A spring blade knife is a "switchblade" where the blade is opened solely by a spring. As long as you are an integral part of opening the blade by pressing on the tab, it is all good.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Now lets work on SBRs

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    Yes! Time to start saving up for a can for my MKIII I'm outside city limits, so maybe I can finally plink without everyone from blocks around calling in "shots fired" reports :\

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Now lets work on SBRs
    +1

    My PS-90 looks pretty stupid un-shortened. Think we'd have any chance of getting an SBR law passed?

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    The problem with this is you'll be paying $200 on taxes, just fair warning you will be "stuck" with the purchase because the $200 is for each not for all you buy, so if you do shell out the $200 make sure you go big on the wallet and purchase a good suppressor otherwise you'll be kicking your own arse. This sucks because its still for the rich.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    The problem with this is you'll be paying $200 on taxes, just fair warning you will be "stuck" with the purchase because the $200 is for each not for all you buy, so if you do shell out the $200 make sure you go big on the wallet and purchase a good suppressor otherwise you'll be kicking your own arse. This sucks because its still for the rich.
    If one doesn't just "follow the crowd" and buy the "sexiest" suppressor that "everyone else has" they can save some money.

    I am looking at one that I can mount on my .30 rifle and AR-15's as well. Only consideration is the adapters (quick disconnect) for each weapon and the suppressor has to be for the largest caliber (something about hole size ).

    As for cost? Cost for many "cans" are about the same as a good quality pistol. (Think Sig, not Hi-Point).
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by antispam540 View Post
    +1

    My PS-90 looks pretty stupid un-shortened. Think we'd have any chance of getting an SBR law passed?
    +1

    Think in the meantime I'm going to look at getting an intergral suppressor for mine. Won't look as stupid.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    The problem with this is you'll be paying $200 on taxes, just fair warning you will be "stuck" with the purchase because the $200 is for each not for all you buy, so if you do shell out the $200 make sure you go big on the wallet and purchase a good suppressor otherwise you'll be kicking your own arse. This sucks because its still for the rich.
    Hey Bun,

    Maybe we should support the progressive ideolgy you seem to infer, of the re-distribution of wealth and create an entitlement program for suppressors, so that we can all have equal access based on income.

    1. First time homebuyers (not the rich)...$8,000 tax relief, plus one time access to IRA funds for downpayments without penalty (which are for the most part, not many or much)
    2. Access to IRA retirement income before 59.5 (not the rich, but the wise)...10% additional tax penalty
    3. Anyone who still happens to have a job...2% reduction in SS tax for one year
    4. Anyone who is collecting SS income...no cost of living increases for (the past) three years, since we all know that $3.90 for a gallon of gas (not grown here) is only temporary and corn prices are controlled by the gov't (grown here) and food prices haven't really been impacted...except a loaf of bread is mostly $3.00 now
    5. A progressive income tax structure so that the more you make, the more you pay (serious redistribution) and the bottom 50% of tax payers pay a total of only 2.7% of the federal income tax ( http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html )

    It could be like....a RKBA value added sales tax on like, lottery tickets, or 1/100% of a dollar on state sales tax (who could hate that), with 50% dedicated to retrofitting the current outdoor shooting ranges to remove the unneeded noise reduction baffles for those clubs with membership rosters that have over 50% owning silencers (remember its for the kids and the community)...or better yet, a renewal date for LCCP holders changing it from 5 years to 3 years to increase revenue from the gun community as a "user fee" based program that also included mandatory income information, based on previous year tax returns and then like, establish a lottery system based on a "quick draw" raffle that would pick out 10% of the eligible license holders (income based) and give them a coupon like food stamps so that they could go and pick out the noise suppressor of their choice (but like food stamps that don't allow you to buy smokes and booze (social tinkering), it would also have to exclude certain types of firearms (more behavior modification).

    On the one hand, I'm actually just glad that a bill passed but am really quite disappointed that many of the other bits of legislation that would have had an bigger impact on a lot more gun owners never saw the light of day........

    .....I also need to find out how much it will cost in addition to all of this, how much it will cost to get my barrel retro fitted, threaded or replaced to be able to accept a unit and then understand how many rounds I can shoot before it wears out and I can send the feds another $200 bucks to get it replaced....uh, maybe I'll just upgrade my hearing protection and buy a whole new hand gun....

    ...excuse me now, I must go and get another cup of coffee.....maybe a Venti, triple, skinny vanilla,no foam.....for $5.65 cents...and a "morning bun" for $1.85 from our most fav, meeting place.
    Last edited by jt59; 03-30-2011 at 10:30 AM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Make one

    So technically, if I make my own suppressor there's no transfer involved so I can avoid the $200 right.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    So technically, if I make my own suppressor there's no transfer involved so I can avoid the $200 right.
    Maybe, maybe not....but you do get to drink the beer first for the can...I wonder if you could just use the ESL (electronic shelf label) as a registration number? But the GOV might end up getting confused over if it was a noise suppressor or illegal use of alcohol when you fired the weapon.

    http://www.bombshock.com/weapons_com...silencers.html
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    A spring blade knife is a "switchblade" where the blade is opened solely by a spring.
    I've always wondered, with the vagueness of the word used, what would happen if you were to make a knife blade from a spring (such as a leaf spring on an automobile, which actually makes pretty good knives). Seems possible that due to that vagueness, you could end up breaking that law without realizing it.
    Last edited by Tawnos; 03-30-2011 at 11:29 AM.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Hey Bun,

    Maybe we should support the progressive ideolgy you seem to infer, of the re-distribution of wealth and create an entitlement program for suppressors, so that we can all have equal access based on income.

    1. First time homebuyers (not the rich)...$8,000 tax relief, plus one time access to IRA funds for downpayments without penalty (which are for the most part, not many or much)
    2. Access to IRA retirement income before 59.5 (not the rich, but the wise)...10% additional tax penalty
    3. Anyone who still happens to have a job...2% reduction in SS tax for one year
    4. Anyone who is collecting SS income...no cost of living increases for (the past) three years, since we all know that $3.90 for a gallon of gas (not grown here) is only temporary and corn prices are controlled by the gov't (grown here) and food prices haven't really been impacted...except a loaf of bread is mostly $3.00 now
    5. A progressive income tax structure so that the more you make, the more you pay (serious redistribution) and the bottom 50% of tax payers pay a total of only 2.7% of the federal income tax ( http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html )
    Have you noticed that all the "Programs" that the Gov. comes up with seem to benefit those who made lots of wrong decisions in their life.

    Bail-Outs for Homeowners that bought homes they couldn't afford.

    Bail-Outs for Businesses and Banks that made stupid business decisions.

    "Welfare" for those that decide to have a "dozen" kids and yet don't feel that they need to do so with a single, working, father.

    Make your house payment every month, on time (sometimes even a few months in advance) and then get told by your bank you don't qualify to get your interest rate reduced. You have to be a "deadbeat" to qualify.


    Where are all the benefits for those who go through life only buying what they can afford, who have a strong work ethic and do everything in their power to support their families. Benefits to those who spend within their means, not trying to have everything of the latest and greatest, then filing bankruptcy when they can't pay for it.

    Where's the reward for being a responsible citizen?

    One thing to consider, at least the "$200 Transfer Fee" hasn't been adjusted for inflation over the years. It's remained the same as the beginning. That in itself is somewhat of a bargain.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    So technically, if I make my own suppressor there's no transfer involved so I can avoid the $200 right.

    No. You avoid having to pay for the expensive suppressor. Legally you have to fill out a Form 1. Using either LEO sign off, Trust or LLC. Be as vague as possible, example entering N/A for suppressor length. Pay your 200 bucks. Patiently wait... Then you can start making it. You have to be in possesion of all the parts while being made. IE you can hire a person to mill parts but you have to be present and not leave the parts there over night. Never have more parts created than what you need for that one suppressor. Do not make two bodies do not make extra baffles, just because your set up for it and might make another later. The perk is you can make a can for 30 bucks and have fun doing so. Lots of us have made them before. I've not been on here much lately, spent most of my free time the last two months making sure this bill got through Legislature. I think I am going to fill out a Form one this weekend to celebrate.

    Sigman I didn't know you were on here. Anyone else from NWF's

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    I wasn't posting an ideology I was stating that the $200 is a tax stamp for each suppressor so you are stuck with the purchase which means you should go for one that wont wear out quickly which is usually expensive. Me saying that it's still for the rich was just me making fun of my income.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleWingsfan View Post
    No. You avoid having to pay for the expensive suppressor. Legally you have to fill out a Form 1. Using either LEO sign off, Trust or LLC. Be as vague as possible, example entering N/A for suppressor length. Pay your 200 bucks. Patiently wait... Then you can start making it. You have to be in possesion of all the parts while being made. IE you can hire a person to mill parts but you have to be present and not leave the parts there over night. Never have more parts created than what you need for that one suppressor. Do not make two bodies do not make extra baffles, just because your set up for it and might make another later. The perk is you can make a can for 30 bucks and have fun doing so. Lots of us have made them before. I've not been on here much lately, spent most of my free time the last two months making sure this bill got through Legislature. I think I am going to fill out a Form one this weekend to celebrate.

    Sigman I didn't know you were on here. Anyone else from NWF's
    I've read a bit about making suppressors, not everything of course, but I've never read about having all the parts or being present for machining etc. Got a cite for that? If I build one I don't want to break any laws but this seems especially cumbersome, even for the ATF. Never heard that one before.

    Bobby

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    This sucks because its still for the rich.
    Ah, well then, I am truly very sorry.....I just didn't see the sarcasm button and I take it all back.

    I just often hear folks using "one off" rationalizations that are very similar and it just tweaks my nose...
    Last edited by jt59; 03-30-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Open Carry question

    So, what choice of holster would you use for a full size 1911 Springfield 45, fitted with a suppressor when openly carried into Walmarts, or Wells Fargo...and also for effective self defense?

    Belt

    Paddle

    Thigh

    ????
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Kind of obvious the thigh lol, try sitting down with that thing on your belt holster its gonna dig in somewhere or jump out of a normal retention strap holster much to the dismay of the sheeple (if that applies anymore) patrons of walmart and wells fargo.
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobarino View Post
    I've read a bit about making suppressors, not everything of course, but I've never read about having all the parts or being present for machining etc. Got a cite for that? If I build one I don't want to break any laws but this seems especially cumbersome, even for the ATF. Never heard that one before.

    Bobby
    Section 6.4 of the NFA

    "The approval of the Form 1 application authorizes the applicant to make the firearm. The approval does not authorize the applicant to convey or ship the firearm to another person to manufacture the NFA firearm. If another person will manufacture the NFA firearm, the other person would be the maker and the application must be submitted by that person. Subsequent to the making, the firearm could then be transferred, subsequent to an approved Form 4 application, to the person who wanted the modification to be made.

    If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm, the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the firearm. If the location is outside the applicant’s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as required by 27 CFR 478.28."

    If you are there it can simply be stated that you are making it. If the parts are in posession of someone other than a licensed NFA shop or the person on the Form 1. They could be in alot of trouble. I say it to protect the people helping you not to keep you from going to jail. Although I am sure they would frown upon you conspiring to not do it correctly.

    I have heard of people making the tube, engraving it and what not then sending it to a 07 for "repair" IE baffles. you might as well avoid possible legalities and buy or hire them to do it all then.
    Last edited by SeattleWingsfan; 03-30-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    Kind of obvious the thigh lol, try sitting down with that thing on your belt holster its gonna dig in somewhere or jump out of a normal retention strap holster much to the dismay of the sheeple (if that applies anymore) patrons of walmart and wells fargo.
    I agree, and also think it would be pretty useless in a urgently needed situation, but I just wanted to make sure that I followed the rules of posting and keeping this OT with OC.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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