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Thread: The latest from the Maplewood City Council 3 29/11

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    The latest from the Maplewood City Council 3 29/11

    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Interesting. Thank you to the Maplewood-Brentwood Patch for digging into this. I guess it didn't have anything to do with my comments in jail like so many said it did...

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    So much wrong with that article , I don't know where to start . Thanks Marc for trying straighten them all out.

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    lancers, the Coffee Crawl discussion was pretty much fallout from your initial report. So, strictly speaking, you are correct. But, you are somewhat tied to it.

    I like how the lazy reporter says that it's legal to OC in MO with a permit. I'd be curious to know which permit I need, I don't seem to have one.

    The aldermen seem to have forgotten how they get reelected. Not having public debate on curtailment of your rights seems politically expedient, but a poor way to represent your constituents.

    I wonder what the City Manager saw as the perceived threat? The post simply said it was to educate the public. That doesn't sound very threatening.

    Finally, I wonder how the media gets such quick access to things like this? The jailhouse tapes looked to be released almost immediately. These emails were less than 2 weeks old when Patch got ahold of them. Either they're really good at handling Sunshine Law requests, or they're trying to shape public opinion.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    lancers, the Coffee Crawl discussion was pretty much fallout from your initial report. So, strictly speaking, you are correct. But, you are somewhat tied to it.

    I like how the lazy reporter says that it's legal to OC in MO with a permit. I'd be curious to know which permit I need, I don't seem to have one.

    The aldermen seem to have forgotten how they get reelected. Not having public debate on curtailment of your rights seems politically expedient, but a poor way to represent your constituents.

    I wonder what the City Manager saw as the perceived threat? The post simply said it was to educate the public. That doesn't sound very threatening.

    Finally, I wonder how the media gets such quick access to things like this? The jailhouse tapes looked to be released almost immediately. These emails were less than 2 weeks old when Patch got ahold of them. Either they're really good at handling Sunshine Law requests, or they're trying to shape public opinion.
    I do not respond to lancers posts, I know he will be reading this. He has been banned from Missouri Carry (MSSA) AND I agree he has done more to hurt OC in Missouri than anyone can imagine. He will not be welcome
    at OC get togethers as far as I'm concerned.... I don't know how others feel, but I'd leave if he shows up.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    lancers, the Coffee Crawl discussion was pretty much fallout from your initial report. So, strictly speaking, you are correct. But, you are somewhat tied to it.
    Well obviously, but everyone said the ban was because of my actions/words. Clearly, as soon as the police made contact with an OCer, this was going to happen. It could have been me, you, or anyone else on this forum, the same thing would have happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    I do not respond to lancers posts, I know he will be reading this. He has been banned from Missouri Carry (MSSA) AND I agree he has done more to hurt OC in Missouri than anyone can imagine. He will not be welcome
    at OC get togethers as far as I'm concerned.... I don't know how others feel, but I'd leave if he shows up.
    You feel this way based on one slanted news story? Come on...

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    For you OC and CCW advocates, if this passes can you now admit to yourselves that Maplewood and other municipalities ARE regulating concealed carry by denying open carry?

    Why you might ask? They're telling you that your 2A rights are INVALID and UNLAWFUL unless you can afford to pay for the concealed carry class, the background check, and the new card. That my friends IS regulating of concealed carry! It's not changing the CCW laws by any means, but it's certainly regulating those who will be allowed to carry in Maplewood with the requirement that you have a CCW permit, if they require it by law it's regulating it folks.

    This needs a prompt lawsuit on the Constitutionality of that dreaded 1984 law. It should never have passed in 1984 and should not stand today as it's clearly unconstitutional.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 03-30-2011 at 12:52 AM.

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    you sit back and watch a lil bit and next thing you know....look at all the lil bee's buzzin. :-)

    poor maplewood....for they know exactly what they are doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    I do not respond to lancers posts, I know he will be reading this. He has been banned from Missouri Carry (MSSA) AND I agree he has done more to hurt OC in Missouri than anyone can imagine. He will not be welcome
    at OC get togethers as far as I'm concerned.... I don't know how others feel, but I'd leave if he shows up.
    msp i'd say that's a lil harsh....especially since to an extent he's no more "baited" police than anyone else involved with going to each police station / city hall and or starbucks and taken pictures has. that's like calling someone out for driving thru north city and then having something happen to them. but for you to say he's outright not welcome at oc gatherings...who are you to speak for everyone and make that call....kind presumptuous eh? if you would prefer to leave if he were around that's your business...but to try to force that opinion on everyone else in a public forum is well...just kinda low...and really gives all the anti's what they want and that is to divide 2A people in any way they can. but....c'est la vie eh?

    the only difference between you and him is, he had an incident....we haven't....yet. i'm not saying i agree with what may or may not have happened in mr. d's last incident...but that's not my place to judge him....so i won't. but i def won't stand for the elitist look down your nose at everyone else attitude cause someone doesn't do something you may have liked it to have been....anti's already classify some oc'ers as snobs...and i'd be damned as hell if it were true.


    the higher up on the platform you get...the farther you are gonna fall.....which does happen from time to time.


    just sayin.
    Last edited by nrepuyan; 03-30-2011 at 01:46 AM.

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    Not Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by nrepuyan View Post
    msp i'd say that's a lil harsh....especially since to an extent he's no more "baited" police than anyone else involved with going to each police station / city hall and or starbucks and taken pictures has. that's like calling someone out for driving thru north city and then having something happen to them. but for you to say he's outright not welcome at oc gatherings...who are you to speak for everyone and make that call....kind presumptuous eh? if you would prefer to leave if he were around that's your business...but to try to force that opinion on everyone else in a public forum is well...just kinda low...and really gives all the anti's what they want and that is to divide 2A people in any way they can. but....c'est la vie eh?

    just sayin.
    Mspgunner's statement reflects one I had made to him and others in person. Mr Darrows would not be a welcomed guest to any gathering that I organize. It is my opinion that he is not a very good representative of Open Carry and I do not particularly care to be associated with him mainly for the following 3 reasons.

    1) Even before his very brief entrance into doing any OC he carried a reputation that is a bit controversial.
    2) His reckless comments made to impress a random cellmate regarding intentions of OCing and implying he has any inclination to take aggression toward the arresting officers.
    3) His continuing desire to transplant all blame on to others. He owns up to none of his own misgivings and I personally think this speaks volumes of his character.

    Doc

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    Mspgunner's statement reflects one I had made to him and others in person. Mr Darrows would not be a welcomed guest to any gathering that I organize. It is my opinion that he is not a very good representative of Open Carry and I do not particularly care to be associated with him mainly for the following 3 reasons.

    1) Even before his very brief entrance into doing any OC he carried a reputation that is a bit controversial.
    2) His reckless comments made to impress a random cellmate regarding intentions of OCing and implying he has any inclination to take aggression toward the arresting officers.
    3) His continuing desire to transplant all blame on to others. He owns up to none of his own misgivings and I personally think this speaks volumes of his character.

    Doc
    You have it right. I've seen how you interact with LEOs in a calm and positive way, with respect and a civil attitude. Even in the face of different opinion with the LEOs the way you conduct your self is very positive. This defuses any uncomfortable feeling with them and they leave with education and understanding, not with you in cuffs and detention. It's a choice an OCer has to make. Get in their face or talk in a civil and poli6te manner... The reults are generally up to us.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    well all i have to say is, good luck to ya'll, superstars.
    Last edited by nrepuyan; 03-30-2011 at 11:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    You have it right. I've seen how you interact with LEOs in a calm and positive way, with respect and a civil attitude. Even in the face of different opinion with the LEOs the way you conduct your self is very positive. This defuses any uncomfortable feeling with them and they leave with education and understanding, not with you in cuffs and detention. It's a choice an OCer has to make. Get in their face or talk in a civil and poli6te manner... The reults are generally up to us.
    Too bad I didn't have a chance. After I was pulled out of line, disarmed in front of everyone at the checkout, I was dragged to the security room and arrested! The only things I said prior to arrest was, "no" in response to the officer asking if I was a cop and, "Did I do something wrong?" Yeah, after arrest I got a little hot, but you get dragged out of a store and taken to jail when you have done absolutely nothing wrong and you might think a little different.

    Have you or Doc had this happen?

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    After reading the comments of the city council people, I see that they've attempted - and succeeded - to outdo Brett in the arena of complete foolishness.

    Saying stuff like "I don't want concealed guns either" or "anyone can stand in their yard and display a gun" or "point it at someone" truly reflects the ignorance and disrespect for our rights the by these members of the council.

    It would be truly difficult to have a conversation with one of these people, and I wonder how they actually hold public office.

    I wouldn't run away if Brett showed up either, btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lancers View Post
    Too bad I didn't have a chance. After I was pulled out of line, disarmed in front of everyone at the checkout, I was dragged to the security room and arrested! The only things I said prior to arrest was, "no" in response to the officer asking if I was a cop and, "Did I do something wrong?" Yeah, after arrest I got a little hot, but you get dragged out of a store and taken to jail when you have done absolutely nothing wrong and you might think a little different.

    Have you or Doc had this happen?
    hey b, i'd just let it go....

    ....might be beating a dead horse on this one. but to answer your question, doc has been disarmed in public [st charles city actually] while going about his business....but had 2 friends and a camera present at the time as well.
    Last edited by nrepuyan; 03-30-2011 at 11:49 AM.

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    OC, you used something that's absolutely fitting.

    DMZ

    That could mean these:
    Demilitarized Zone
    Dead-Man-Zone
    Done-with Maplewood Zone

    And many more.

    I'm very partial to the Dead-Man-Zone, especially since the Supreme Court ruled that LEOs have no legal duty to protect.

    So when can we start shipping the State's criminals there? Sorry, I'm pretty passionate about this type of issue as it's my firm belief that the 1984 law granting this ability IS and WAS illegal when it was signed into law.

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    Wow!

    OC for me,

    You say.... "What other gig could you get where all you have to do is walk/drive around your entire shift, get paid to do it, be bored outta your mind and get the occasional free coffee and doughnut. Change a tire in the rain, go to a elementary school and talk about obeying the law to little kids who think breaking the law is getting grounded and "could you go and arrest my mommy for grounding me?", go to stupid and redundant OJT on sensitivity related issues during your off hours and otherwise wish for the weekend just like every other working stiff."

    You may want to reconsider this comment. Yes....an LEO's daily routine may be mundane "most" days...it's that day when they choose to put their life on the line for you and me that we must always remember.

    Just yesterday we had an incident about 2 minutes from my house where a LEO stopped a vehicle that resembled one that was used in a robbery. The LEO stepped out of his car, the suspect stepped out of his and IMMEDIATELY opened fire on the LEO.

    The suspect died at the scene. I could very well imagine that LEO's day may have been just as mundane as you painted it in your comment ...and yep...had a pretty good gig going on...right up until someone tried to kill him.

    I feel your comment was extremely shortsighted and thoughtless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyj View Post
    OC for me,

    You say.... "What other gig could you get where all you have to do is walk/drive around your entire shift, get paid to do it, be bored outta your mind and get the occasional free coffee and doughnut. Change a tire in the rain, go to a elementary school and talk about obeying the law to little kids who think breaking the law is getting grounded and "could you go and arrest my mommy for grounding me?", go to stupid and redundant OJT on sensitivity related issues during your off hours and otherwise wish for the weekend just like every other working stiff."

    You may want to reconsider this comment. Yes....an LEO's daily routine may be mundane "most" days...it's that day when they choose to put their life on the line for you and me that we must always remember.

    Just yesterday we had an incident about 2 minutes from my house where a LEO stopped a vehicle that resembled one that was used in a robbery. The LEO stepped out of his car, the suspect stepped out of his and IMMEDIATELY opened fire on the LEO.

    The suspect died at the scene. I could very well imagine that LEO's day may have been just as mundane as you painted it in your comment ...and yep...had a pretty good gig going on...right up until someone tried to kill him.

    I feel your comment was extremely shortsighted and thoughtless.
    None of that matters around here. LEO are your enemy dontcha know? They just eat donuts and harass OC'ers for no reason. That's their job.

    Please don't bring common sense into this thread.
    Last edited by Festus_Hagen; 03-30-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    None of that matters around here. LEO are your enemy dontcha know? They just eat donuts and harass OC'ers for no reason. That's their job.

    Please don't bring common sense into this thread.
    Perhaps you could point out where somebody said that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    Perhaps you could point out where somebody said that?
    Not worth my time. It's the general attitude on this site, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    Not worth my time. It's the general attitude on this site, though.
    So you are saying that it hasn't happened?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    So you are saying that it hasn't happened?
    That's not what I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    None of that matters around here. LEO are your enemy dontcha know? They just eat donuts and harass OC'ers for no reason. That's their job.

    Please don't bring common sense into this thread.
    As a human being with human emotions and human reactions, I can tell you that if I am not doing anything contrary to the law (or believe I am not), I expect to be treated as a law abiding person.
    If a police officer becomes disrepectful of that, I am going to tend to become a mirror of disrespect. It's a human thing. If I am being approached by a police officer and being questioned, I am naturally going to want to know why. Respect is fair to all.

    When asked a question, I will answer as I deem appropriate. If the police don't like my answer, I don't think it is grounds for immediate escalation into an argument and/or threats of false charges and/or bodily harm, as we have seen in the videos of the past that prompted the St. George PD to dissolve, also the Philidelphia OC incident of this month. Each of these examples ultimately resolve in favor of the citizen and end bad for the police. If there were no recordings we know the outcome would be different.

    Rodney King wouldn't have had all of that money to waste on drugs if the video tape didn't exist and those convicts that previously called themselves police would still be police.
    Last edited by xc9subcompact; 03-30-2011 at 04:31 PM.

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    Oh my god....

    Must we always disintigrate into the lowest common denominator?

    Give any thread enough time and it inevitably degrades into LEO bashing. What hypocrites within our own ranks! As we whine and moan in the face of the injustice of Maplewood City Council lumping us all into the same category and falling prey to the stereotype of OC'ers as a bunch of brainless, irresponsible, cowboys......

    ....we throw around our own stereotypes of doughnut eating flatfoots.

    Nevermind that many law enforcement officers are supportive of our civil liberties. (As evidenced by the Frontenac officer saying hello and "good to see you exercising your second amendment rights" at the Ladue Starbucks). I've never had a bad situation with any LEO other than a few questions and then on my way....

    Yet, some of us insist on making things confrontational (US vs. THEM) anyway.

    Pointless and unproductive. At best.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 03-30-2011 at 04:31 PM.

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