guns and the internal combustion engine

The point of the thread, which was proven early on, is that our government is unconstitutionally forcing a change on the American people which isn't being done throughout the world. This is reducing our national securtiy as well as our individual securtities. By reducing the most common and efficient method of fueling our vehicles puts us at considerable risks form outside and inside regimes hell bent on fundementally changing our way of life including the Constitution. Once they've limited us to an electric car they could easily set up a kinetic campaign to destroy those who oppose them. Again, this is one more way to limit us, to were if we had to fight we're already at a disadvantage. I'm sorry not enough of you don't understand the point I'm making. Perhaps you will when the government tries to cram it down our throats. As for setting an example, this is what they'll tell you, but do you think Venezuala, N. Korea, Iran, China, and Russia care. This will be perceived as weakness, and will be used against us sooner than you think. I give it less than 10 years.
Sic Semper Tyrannis

Placementvs.Calibur said:

The point of the thread, which was proven early on, is that our government is unconstitutionally forcing a change on the American people which isn't being done throughout the world. This is reducing our national securtiy as well as our individual securtities. By reducing the most common and efficient method of fueling our vehicles puts us at considerable risks form outside and inside regimes hell bent on fundementally changing our way of life including the Constitution. Once they've limited us to an electric car they could easily set up a kinetic campaign to destroy those who oppose them. Again, this is one more way to limit us, to were if we had to fight we're already at a disadvantage. I'm sorry not enough of you don't understand the point I'm making. Perhaps you will when the government tries to cram it down our throats. As for setting an example, this is what they'll tell you, but do you think Venezuala, N. Korea, Iran, China, and Russia care. This will be perceived as weakness, and will be used against us sooner than you think. I give it less than 10 years.
Sic Semper Tyrannis

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Sorry to hijack your thread. I found the alternative energy discussion both debatable and interesting. The original premise seemed conspiratorial.

Can you cite the sanctions you refer to? Can you explain what you mean by no fly zone and kinetic campaign.

I want to make sure I correctly understand that you're saying incentives for alternative fuels will lead to war on the American populace.

You don't have to put hydrogen in your vehicle. Just water. When you use electrolysis, you split the H20 molecule. In which you get the hydrogen. The engine burns the hydrogen creating power. The alternator provides power to keep splitting the molecule. Thus more hydrogen etc etc.

The only emissions is oxygen. And not only does this not put out any emissions. But the air than comes in the intake, will be cleaner as it exits the exhaust. Driving a hydrogen car will actually clean our air.

There is absolutely no reason we should be using petroleum to power our cars.

Nutczak said:

I have learned that it takes 1.6 gallons of petroleum to bring 1 gallon of ethanol to market, then when you use it as a motor fuel, you lose about 45% of your mileage.

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This argument is pure bunk.

Only because of the BATFE.

I'm sick of counter-rhetoric that is even more devoid of science than the average Hippie....

Ethanol cannot be sold in a potable fashion or it is considered a beverage. Liquor license, the whole 9 yards. Doesn't matter what you INTEND to do with it.

The problem is that roughly 15% of supposedly 'pure' Ethanol, is actually water. In order to mix it with Gasoline, there can be NO water. E85 = 15% gasoline. roughly 15% of that E was water, too... So it's a perfect setup.. If you mix that 15% water with an equal amount of gas... this is simple math. Go try it. Fill a gas can halfway with gas, then halfway with water. Now dump it in your gas tank. Doesn't work very well, does it?

Almost ALL of the expense of producing E85/E95 is in getting that last little bit of water out of it so that it can be mixed with gasoline (as required by law) and not gunk up the gasoline the government requires it to be mixed with.

If we were ALLOWED to use the purest Ethanol without having to mix it with gasoline, that last little bit of water wouldn't matter, and it would cost pennies to produce. Also, you could get drunk for a lot less; and nobody involved in producing alcoholic beverages likes that Idea. The ATF's tax revenue would almost disappear... So that's why it'll never happen.

Look at Brazil. Game over. Half-baked Conservative arguments are just as half-baked as anyone else's half-baked argument...

Science > political rhetoric.

Once you remove the need to get rid of that 15%, the process of making Ethanol is basically "Let it sit there and rot." This is not complicated or expensive. Heat can be applied to accelerate the process... There is a reason for that mess at the bottom of a grain silo; it occurs naturally without any effort on the part of humans. Virtually zero cost.

There are problems with ethanol.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/16/congress-let-ethanol-subsidies

There are other fuels that are better. Better yet is we give up on the idea that we need a 3000 pound machine to whisk us everywhere we go. Perhaps the gov should subsidize motorcycles next so gas mileage goes up and we can OC more effectively.

impulse418 said:

You don't have to put hydrogen in your vehicle. Just water. When you use electrolysis, you split the H20 molecule. In which you get the hydrogen. The engine burns the hydrogen creating power. The alternator provides power to keep splitting the molecule. Thus more hydrogen etc etc.

The only emissions is oxygen. And not only does this not put out any emissions. But the air than comes in the intake, will be cleaner as it exits the exhaust. Driving a hydrogen car will actually clean our air.

There is absolutely no reason we should be using petroleum to power our cars.

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Wow, a perpetual motion machine that actually gives out more energy than it takes to run it. After all these years why hasn't someone put it on the market already. Maybe because the oil companies bought up al the patents on it to keep it from the public and ruin their profit margins. Why not just attach a generator to the wheels with a big gear to drive the little gear on a generator to charge the batteries as you drive down the road. :banghead:

PT111 said:

Wow, a perpetual motion machine that actually gives out more energy than it takes to run it. After all these years why hasn't someone put it on the market already. Maybe because the oil companies bought up al the patents on it to keep it from the public and ruin their profit margins. Why not just attach a generator to the wheels with a big gear to drive the little gear on a generator to charge the batteries as you drive down the road. :banghead:

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Nah, I vote for the solar powered car that has a solar powered flashlight to keep it going at night.