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borrowing a gun

sonic

Regular Member
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Jun 4, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Mansfield, ,
I need some advice about some gun laws. I used to live in MI but now have moved to Oh for job purposes. My dad and I are avid hunters/shooters and often borrow guns from each other. Can we still do this now that we are living in different states? I've read some stuff on the web lately that is very, very confusing. All kinds of forums disscussing things like state to state gun sales and gifting guns to family members. I'm not giving or selling a handgun/shotgun/rifle to my dad, just letting him borrow them. we've always done this. He has one of my rifles right now and I have a shotgun of his. On another forum the other day someone told me that legally we have to 'transfer' ownership with an FFL. I don't understand and can't really find any concrete facts. Why would I 'transfer' my gun to my dad? It's mine not his, I'll be getting it back. Plus doesn't that cost money to do?? Is this really a law? What's the world coming to? If anyone knows the facts I'd me happy to hear them. I was just about to lend my dad a pistol for CC for him to try out to see if he is interested in buying one of his own, seems perfectly legal to do. Or isn't it?
 

sonic

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Mansfield, ,
I'm still confused, you're saying we can only borrow handguns from one another? Because we live in different states? You'll have to specify.
 

smellslikemichigan

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Troy, Michigan, USA
no, you can borrow rifles without a CPL. do you have an ohio license to carry? if so you can borrow a handgun, if not, you can only borrow long guns in michigan. michigan honors ohio license to carry.
 
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sonic

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I currently do not have CC permit in OH. My dad has one in MI. So he can borrow a handgun from me? Along with long guns? And I can only borrow long guns from him but no handguns? Thanks for your patience, just trying to understand all this.
 

Golden Eagle

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Jul 3, 2009
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Location
SW Michigan
I currently do not have CC permit in OH. My dad has one in MI. So he can borrow a handgun from me? Along with long guns? And I can only borrow long guns from him but no handguns? Thanks for your patience, just trying to understand all this.

In your situation, the law when you are in MI is you can borrow your dads long guns; he can borrow all you guns.
I don't know Ohio law for when your in Ohio.
 
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lil_freak_66

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Mason, Michigan
I currently do not have CC permit in OH. My dad has one in MI. So he can borrow a handgun from me? Along with long guns? And I can only borrow long guns from him but no handguns? Thanks for your patience, just trying to understand all this.

long guns are perfectly fine.

if he has a michigan cpl,he can borrow your handguns,since you do not have an ohio permit,you may not borrow any handguns in this state,i have no idea if you can borrow handguns in ohio,for that to be answered you'd wanna hit up the ohio guys.
 
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Golden Eagle

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Location
SW Michigan
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stainless1911

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If your handgun comes to Michigan, it has to be registered in Michigan before (10 days I think?). He can only borrow a registered handgun, and only if he has a CPL. I dont know anything about Ohio laws, except that Im not to too fond of your speed limits, ours are slow enough already.
 
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sonic

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Mansfield, ,
I feel like I'm getting conflicting answers here. One person states the as long as my dad has a Michigan cpl he can borrow one of my handguns from Ohio. Another says he can only use the handgun if he registers it within 10 days. Why would HE register MY handgun, I don't need a permit or registration to legally own it in Ohio. If he registers my handgun, wouldn't it legally become his and not mine? Also, I heard that state to state ownership transfers require a 3rd party (FFL). If I bring a handgun to MI can't I use it legally and let my dad use it as well? What if we're just at the range or plinking in the back woods? What if I accidentally leave it at his house? We lend guns to each other all the time (long guns) but the handgun thing has me confused because of the fact that MI requires registration.
So, if I drive over to my folks, give my dad a pistol and say get it back to me the next time you visit, is that legal? And, can he use that pistol for CC????
 

stainless1911

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I really wish that I had the cite handy, I do my best with those, but I do know that if a gun comes into the state, the .gov wants it registered. I believe the requirement is that it be done within 10 days. If your dad registers it, then yes, its his gun. I dont think you need to go through an FFL to transfer it to a family member, but truthfully, I dont know, and won't state that as a fact. If you are visiting the state for a couple days, then no, it doesn't need to be registered, and you can go shooting with him all you want. If you leave it with him for more than the 10 days, then I think there is a problem.
 

Golden Eagle

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I really wish that I had the cite handy, I do my best with those, but I do know that if a gun comes into the state, the .gov wants it registered. I believe the requirement is that it be done within 10 days. If your dad registers it, then yes, its his gun. I dont think you need to go through an FFL to transfer it to a family member, but truthfully, I dont know, and won't state that as a fact. If you are visiting the state for a couple days, then no, it doesn't need to be registered, and you can go shooting with him all you want. If you leave it with him for more than the 10 days, then I think there is a problem.

Hold on this is more complex... forgot OH does not have pistol registered I'm looking right now too... what is the law that lets a cpl holder borrow a pistol?
 
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Gort

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
104
Location
Newport, Michigan, USA
§ 922. Unlawful acts

This may help?
Section 5,B

Except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
 

smellslikemichigan

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Jun 16, 2008
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Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
no, that's federal law. michigan law addresses this... somewhere. and hence, preempts federal in this regard.
here's the cite everyone is looking for:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1x...432-amended&query=on&highlight=28.432.amended

also, from msp website:
3. Is it okay if I loan my pistol to a friend?

MCL 28.432 An individual can carry, possess, use or transport a pistol belonging to another individual, if the pistol is properly licensed and inspected under the Act, and the individual carrying, possessing, using or transporting the pistol has obtained a license to carry a pistol concealed permit from Michigan
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html
 
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Golden Eagle

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Jul 3, 2009
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253
Location
SW Michigan
I think this is now it.
***** 28.432 THIS SECTION IS AMENDED EFFECTIVE FEBRUARY 15, 2011: See 28.432.amended *****

28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.
Sec. 12.

(1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:

........

(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.

I underlined and wonder would that be MI's or any law?
 
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Gort

Regular Member
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Feb 4, 2010
Messages
104
Location
Newport, Michigan, USA
no, that's federal law. michigan law addresses this... somewhere. and hence, preempts federal in this regard.
here's the cite everyone is looking for:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1x...432-amended&query=on&highlight=28.432.amended

also, from msp website:
3. Is it okay if I loan my pistol to a friend?

MCL 28.432 An individual can carry, possess, use or transport a pistol belonging to another individual, if the pistol is properly licensed and inspected under the Act, and the individual carrying, possessing, using or transporting the pistol has obtained a license to carry a pistol concealed permit from Michigan
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html

Yes it is Federal Law,
I think, MCL 28.432 refers to transporting within the state of Michigan, Not across state Lines.
 

sonic

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Jun 4, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Mansfield, ,
also, from msp website:
3. Is it okay if I loan my pistol to a friend?

MCL 28.432 An individual can carry, possess, use or transport a pistol belonging to another individual, if the pistol is properly licensed and inspected under the Act, and the individual carrying, possessing, using or transporting the pistol has obtained a license to carry a pistol concealed permit from Michigan
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html[/QUOTE]


So what I take from this is that a MI resident with a cpl can borrow another's pistol and carry it, so long as the pistol is properly and legally owned. But, I'm assuming that this is talking about a pistol that is owned by another MI resident.
 

sonic

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Mansfield, ,
This may help?
Section 5,B

Except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

What are 'lawful sporting purposes'?
 

Gort

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
104
Location
Newport, Michigan, USA
What are 'lawful sporting purposes'?

Yes, MCL 28.432 For Michigan Residents. Gun Must Be Licensed, Registered, To Loan.

You are from Ohio, Loaning your gun to a CPL holder here in Michigan

Michigan Firearms Act Section 28.442
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bs...leg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422
(8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:
(a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
(b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

There may be a time limit on how long this gun can remain in Michigan, 30 days comes to mind.

Transportation across State Lines
Federal 922. Unlawful acts Except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes
Notice the Wording. Temporary, sporting purposes.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Sporting Purposes could be Target shooting etc, Not defined.

Make the choice of your own, You are the one who must be confident in your decision.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
If your handgun comes to Michigan, it has to be registered in Michigan before (10 days I think?). He can only borrow a registered handgun, and only if he has a CPL. I dont know anything about Ohio laws, except that Im not to too fond of your speed limits, ours are slow enough already.

No his dad can borrow any lawful handgun. It doesn't have to be registered in Michigan.
 
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