So one morale I take from this is...if someone sees you OCing and calls the police and states you were brandishing, even though they may not know what that means exactally, that gives the police a legal reason to stop you even though you were doing nothing wrong. If you decide you don't want to discuss the issue with the police on scene and remain silent you WILL be cuffed and stuffed and will have to deal with it in court. Since police are allowed to lie can't they just see you OCing, approach and tell you "someone" claimed you were brandishing then require all your info etc?
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OC overreaction in James City County shopping center 3-30-2011?
- Thread starter paramedic70002
- Start date
Repeater
Regular Member
Well, that all seems fairly accurate. The solution is to amend the law to protect Virginians from false accusations of "brandishing" -- wonder if that's possible.
nuc65
Activist Member
Thank you for the insight. One question: If the person making the complaint doesn't swear out the warrant and you don't arrest the suspect, is the sidearm returned?
nuc65
Activist Member
My neighbors have been moving, but being as how they work they finished up late at night. They told me that somebody called 911 and told the police that they were moving in the rain after dark. I thought it was interesting the police investigated.
Probably investigated whether someone was involved in a home burglary.
Repeater,
I agree, but like someone already mentioned stupidity is not illegal. The big thing with inaccurate statements is proving malice intent instead of stupidity.
Nuc,
Yes if the "victim" doesn't swear out a warrant, eventually the gun will be returned in a timely fashion. I say "eventually" because the victim has a statute of limitations that they can go swear a warrant, usually up to a year for misdemeanors. I believe that the "suspect" could contact the Commonwealth Attorneys office to inquire getting their gun back since it looks like the "victim" is no longer pursing charges. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a gun being seized and then returned for this type of situation. I have had similar experiences with other types of evidence, and I have been contacted by the Commonwealth Attorney to authorize the release since it appeared the victim no longer wants to prosecute, which I have. I guess the Commonwealth Attorney's office would have better insight than I would.
I agree, but like someone already mentioned stupidity is not illegal. The big thing with inaccurate statements is proving malice intent instead of stupidity.
Nuc,
Yes if the "victim" doesn't swear out a warrant, eventually the gun will be returned in a timely fashion. I say "eventually" because the victim has a statute of limitations that they can go swear a warrant, usually up to a year for misdemeanors. I believe that the "suspect" could contact the Commonwealth Attorneys office to inquire getting their gun back since it looks like the "victim" is no longer pursing charges. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a gun being seized and then returned for this type of situation. I have had similar experiences with other types of evidence, and I have been contacted by the Commonwealth Attorney to authorize the release since it appeared the victim no longer wants to prosecute, which I have. I guess the Commonwealth Attorney's office would have better insight than I would.
paramedic70002
Regular Member
So if some yahoo insists that I was for some reason under the Code 'brandishing' and I insist that I wasn't, our stories conflict so I get arrested and taken to the Magistrate. This could be as simple as "His hand was near the gun and he looked threatening."
Not a good situation.
In other news...
Several years ago I was arrested for brandishing. I was simply carrying my sidearm, in my hand, from my car to my house, on my property. The next door neighbor's kid saw me and his Dad got a warrant. The Judge was conflicted about the whole deal and split the difference with a year of probation and the charge dropped. Not ideal but could have been a lot worse.
Not a good situation.
In other news...
Several years ago I was arrested for brandishing. I was simply carrying my sidearm, in my hand, from my car to my house, on my property. The next door neighbor's kid saw me and his Dad got a warrant. The Judge was conflicted about the whole deal and split the difference with a year of probation and the charge dropped. Not ideal but could have been a lot worse.
That happens on a regular basis Paramedic.
It is as abused as the old loitering laws were.
I know of one instance where a man was arrested because he had a gun sitting on a briefcase 50 feet away. A passerby saw it and was afraid.
Well, I guess you know first hand how the warrant thing works. Seems in your case, the police did what I said would most likely happen. They wrote up the report and left the responsibility up to the "victim" (Dad in this case since it was his child) to swear out the warrant. I guess the issue arises from cases where it is just "his word vs mine". I don't think there is really a solution that will prevent these types of mistakes to be made. I guess in your situation the judge found "probable cause" and issued the warrant, which doesn't mean your guilty, just means he found enough support for the charge to go to court.
How did you get probation with the charge being dropped? You plead to something less?
2a4all
Regular Member
It sounds more like a "withhold finding of guilty", i.e. Keep your nose clean for a year, and the charges will be dropped. Not that uncommon.
MKEgal
Regular Member
Until the law is amended, make your pistol so very unusual that whoever's around when you draw it (esp. the person you point it at) can't help but notice.Repeater said:
That way, if there's a false accusation you can have the officers ask the complainer* to describe your pistol, what's unusual about it, and when they say "nothing, it's just an evil black gun" the officers can then take yours from the holster (if they haven't already), see how unmistakably unusual it is, & know the complainer is lying.
NB that if they disarm you upon arrival, it needs to be out of sight of the complainer, & it helps if none of your alterations are visible while it's in the holster.
My preferred carry pistol was recently stolen by police during a home invasion (4A civil rights case pending), but it has brightly-colored stickers over each instance of the serial # (to help protect against unwarranted searches) as well as covering the front of the barrel... which would be immediately obvious to whoever it was pointed at.
* Yes, I know the legal term is "complainant". This is more accurate.
Well I was under the impression that by "dropped" he meant dismissed, which courts around here don't dismiss cases to then apply a sentence. Suspended sentences are common after the fact, but just confused on his wording. Courts vary around the state though.
1. IMO if a complainant can't see stickers on your gun, then I don't believe it would necessarily affect their credibility enough not to charge (if it was determined through the investigation that they describe you brandishing). People that go through "tramatic" experience can have selective memory.
2. You can't rule out that the "suspect" didn't place those stickers on after the incident (anything in this world is possible).
3. The chances of someone calling the police to mistakenly accuse you of brandishing are so slim, it would not warrant me placing stickers on my beloved guns. Although you are correct, it may add a little something to a defense if they did not completely identify the gun.
4. I thought one of the main arguments for open carrying is to deter criminals from crime (specifically violent crimes against you). I think covering your gun with a bunch of bright colored stickers in order to make it look like a 3rd graders notebook, you might lose that affect.
Police home invasion and they stole your gun? Sounds like a search warrant and legal seizure of the weapon. Hard to take advice from someone who has police hitting their house up with search warrants.. just sayin (maybe your rights were violated, but I am just skeptical until you share further).
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epilogue
Regular Member
Good thing I tuck my firearms under my arm when going to-from my front door and driveway.
Someone would have to have a deeply rooted fear of rosewood.
Someone would have to have a deeply rooted fear of rosewood.
TFred
Regular Member
We need judges/magistrates who are not hoplophobe-enablers!
TFred
paramedic70002
Regular Member
Yep that's what happened.
The Judge made some comment about mixing kids and guns was never a good idea, which I thought was a prelude to getting jacked up, then he dropped the other shoe and kicked me loose.
To be completely fair, I did say something to the kid about his dog, who was in the act of depositing a fecal adornment on my lawn as I walked to my house, but I had the handgun tucked down by my leg and didn't think he saw it. The dog was an ongoing problem but had nothing to do with the timing of my carrying the gun in. I had remembered that it was in the car shortly after I got home from work, and noticed a strange person standing in the road in front of my house after I got out of my uniform. Where I live, on a heavily travelled highway, there is NEVER someone just standing in front of your house. I went out to get it after I had changed into loose sweats that would not support it's weight if I had attempted to tuck it in the waist band.
The Dad was a former Deputy in a nearby city. Later, the landlord got Felony warrants against him after he moved out of state, skipping on rent and leaving the house pretty much demolished inside.
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And he wonders why people automatically dismisses his comments? He has little to NO details of this incident, it didn't happen in a jurisdiction where he is knowledgeable of the local laws, yet automatically speculates that the poster was in the wrong, and implies that they were the 'bad guy'. He gave no credence at all to what the poster said, just automatically ASSumed that they HAD to have broken some law which justified a search and seizure.
Based on a relatively short time on this forum, I think thats a perfect example of the 'issue' many folks have with him... he views everyone as a 'suspect'.... or a person who somehow 'deserved' the treatment a LEO gave them.....
(not sure which icon I should put... the head banger, shocker, cuss, mad, cry... or what... they all could apply. lol)
How about a "Sweet Silence" icon:lol:
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ixtow
Founder's Club Member
Silence is Golden.
Duct Tape is Silver.
Well worth the investment.
Duct Tape is Silver.
Well worth the investment.