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Thread: I think I am done here.

  1. #1
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    I think I am done here.

    For more then two years I have come to this board. And I have learned a ton. As I have and currently do instruct select classes on concealed carry and on open carry, I have had 100+ or so students that I have directed to this forum as a learning tool. I direct all my classes to browse here, because of the open minded environment and knowledge and tolerance that is with in these pages. And I have had only 1 complaint in those two years, and that was over a political thread.

    My last class of 8 women came and looked through here on Sunday, and I have gotten several emails about the behaviors in several of the threads. From racial profiling, to hatred, to outright racism where some of the things mentioned in the 4 emails I received.

    I have tried to involve others in this forum because it has been a well controlled, well maintained forum, that only rarely strayed off course. When it did stray, it ended quite quickly, few apologies go round and edits get made.

    That appears to no longer be the course. And I cannot in good conscious continue to recommend this as resource to others. Call it thin skinned, but when I have to tell people this is a good clean forum, with good open minded people on it, and some of our most involved members are embroiled in discussions that would not be polite in public, I can't make that recommendation anymore. Ideas, ideals and beliefs are one thing, but when you put them out there as the only interpretation, it goes beyond what is appropriate. We all have differing opinions, we all (hopefully) accept that in others. Apparently from the quotes I was sent that wasn't quite the case in these threads.

    I myself because I do recommend things and resources to my student have always tried to stay with the idea if "it isn't a place that I would send a child", "talk to my mother about or show her", or "converse about at the dinner table with family in the same manner", it probably shouldn't be posted or recommended to my students.

    So unfortunately I believe that I am done here. I hope that the forum will move back towards its axis of open minded, knowledge and tolerance. I myself having been involved here for the last two years was really embarrassed that it was half my class that found offense on here, and that in two years of recommending this forum I have had only 1 other complaint.

    Good luck, and shoot straight you all, I hope that I can return sometime when things have calmed down.
    Last edited by triehl27; 03-31-2011 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    ... and you don't even list where you're from... I'd sure like to see some evidense of racism. I don't think I've ever encountered any of that here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by triehl27 View Post
    [snip]
    Good luck, and shoot straight you all, I hope that I can return sometime when things have calmed down.
    Triehl,

    Please keep in mind that some activities, although normal, may be pointed out by individuals with certain character defects to be "racial", or whatever other sort of prejudicial candy wrapper they want to put on it.

    A lot of difficult conversation goes on here, and that's good in my opinion because it means we are scraping our plates clean on specific topics, and from every angle.

    Another thing, is that you may find it more fruitful to point out these specific comments to the administrators so that they may be addressed. It is better to be involved and actively contributing than to be in the backseat and occasionally complaining.

    Good luck with your future courses.
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    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
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    Please read through the 5 pages of SVG's thread about Muslim shopkeeper ok with Open carry.

    NOW BEFORE i GET AMBUSHED. I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH SVG'S THREAD OF POST. IN FACT I APPLAUD IT
    Where the issue comes in and several of the quotes come from is other posters in that thread, and some of them well recognized.

    Why is the first question where I am at? Seattle. I have been in attendance of many of the OC activities and made several friends here also.

  5. #5
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triehl27 View Post
    Please read through the 5 pages of SVG's thread about Muslim shopkeeper ok with Open carry.

    NOW BEFORE i GET AMBUSHED. I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH SVG'S THREAD OF POST. IN FACT I APPLAUD IT
    Where the issue comes in and several of the quotes come from is other posters in that thread, and some of them well recognized.

    Why is the first question where I am at? Seattle. I have been in attendance of many of the OC activities and made several friends here also.
    What I find irritating, is that your students didn't mention how countless people called out the poster you are referring to and made it known that his comments were completely unacceptable.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  6. #6
    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    ... and you don't even list where you're from... I'd sure like to see some evidense of racism. I don't think I've ever encountered any of that here.
    I hope this comment was made in jest... If your serious PM me and I can spam a few threads that I believe the OP is referring to.
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

  7. #7
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    People that get their panties in a wad about things they read on the internet, have their own problems. I think most people who get upset about things they read or see out here in cyberland, don't even have the slightest clue about all the disturbing and simply "wrong" material there is out here..

    Take yer wadded up panties elsewhere..

  8. #8
    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    People that get their panties in a wad about things they read on the internet, have their own problems. I think most people who get upset about things they read or see out here in cyberland, don't even have the slightest clue about all the disturbing and simply "wrong" material there is out here..

    Take yer wadded up panties elsewhere..
    wow... there is no need to sugar coat it.... Tell us how you really feel.

    I think the OP has made a wise decision as far as no longer directing his students to this website. If he cant support the views or facts stated on this forum then it becomes a poor reflection upon him and or his place of business. In todays economy I should think one cant afford to have 10 people telling 100 people your place of business supports racism or other non-PC beliefs. As far as the OP himself attending is concerned... thats his call, but IMO his un-willingness to continue to promote this site to his student due to content speaks volumes.

    Perphaps we are all atleast a little guilty of this no? Certainly I am not exempt. I should think this would be a good time to reflect on what OCDO really is presenting to the general public. On the very face of flyers we hand out is our forum. Perphaps we should do our best to be a little more "civil" so as to appeal to visitors who may or may not share our particular beliefs. Less we become the monsterous ogres some of the media would like to paint us as.

    Thats my two cents... I am sure I will be roasted for it..
    Last edited by DevinWKuska; 03-31-2011 at 04:13 PM. Reason: spelling+ grammar
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

  9. #9
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triehl27 View Post
    My last class of 8 women came and looked through here on Sunday, and I have gotten several emails about the behaviors in several of the threads.
    Women complaining? I'm shocked.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 03-31-2011 at 04:28 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Racists here? Maybe. Bigoted? Yes. But that is what open and honest discussion should be about. You can't resolve anything by pretending there's no elephant in the room. As a business practice I certainly understand the decision. It takes a certain personality to carry a firearm openly. I'd like it to be different but that's where we happen to be at. There's people who I've met at OC events that if it wasn't for this one issue I wouldn't hang out with them because of their views. I'm sure some feel that way about me. But I hope you stick around even if you don't recommend the site. Discussion and difference of opinion are what chip away at ignorance. Even my own.

  11. #11
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    The beginning of Political Correctness. "I don't like what is said here so I'm not going to send anyone here to read it".

    If one doesn't like the content of a Newspaper, feel free to not buy it anymore. Don't demand that it be shut down.

    Likewise for Radio, TV, Internet Forums, and so forth.

    People have, and espouse, different views on numerous topics. Just because some make comments or statements that others don't agree with doesn't necessarily brand them as bigots, racists, anarchists, atheists, or (Gasp!) even Liberals.

    Funny how, again, the Moderators and Administrator have let the thread in question run its course. Out of 2805 "views" and 166 comments, they must have felt there was something worthwhile in the "conversation".
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The beginning of Political Correctness. "I don't like what is said here so I'm not going to send anyone here to read it".

    If one doesn't like the content of a Newspaper, feel free to not buy it anymore. Don't demand that it be shut down.

    Likewise for Radio, TV, Internet Forums, and so forth.

    People have, and espouse, different views on numerous topics. Just because some make comments or statements that others don't agree with doesn't necessarily brand them as bigots, racists, anarchists, atheists, or (Gasp!) even Liberals.

    Funny how, again, the Moderators and Administrator have let the thread in question run its course. Out of 2805 "views" and 166 comments, they must have felt there was something worthwhile in the "conversation".
    I wonder how many, if any, complaints the moderator / administrators have received from forum members re this thread.

  13. #13
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Interesting, first of all I am glad I did not get involved in that poor excuse of a thread and it should be looking more like a shotgun target then never been touched.

    I also do not feel people seeking training with firearms and personal protection should not be so thin skinned, if you do not like what you read, say so, or move on to another that is more appealing to your nature.
    The thought of needing to coddle them is beyond me, grow a pair.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    It was that one thread that even I found ugly. Read enough posts and read no more and contributed to the fun at the end. Why couldn't they do the same? Maybe they should take another look at that certain thread and they will find out about the B1G1 Free Big Mac deal and everything will be alright!!!

    5 out of 100+ ain't bad at all. triehl27, thanks for your support and advertisement of the forum.

    I'll now excuse myself, I'm having another Big Mac I couldn't finish for breakfast!



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    The Internet contains views opposed to my own.

    News at 11.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I wonder if one of your students were to come in contact with a Ceasefire member or a Brady Campaigner who screamed about how it is wrong to carry a firearm at all, if they would email you about and what would you tell them? Would you tell them to not go outside in public with a firearm so they would not be subjected to anti's, or would you tell them to take the good with the bad and ignore those they do not agree with, and just to go about their business while ignoring them.
    If we all agreed on the same things, didn't have opinions, and all thought the same way, what kind of forum would this be, and how could we claim to be individuals.
    I do think it is kind of Chicken S#!t how some people are reporting "off topic", or "not all Open Carry related posts" to the admin to have them moved or just to be a jerk. If it's not a topic worth commenting on, then it will eventually move on down the list. I have had a few of my post's moved to the general forum and one was actually about open carry, it just got moved because some whiney, crying forum police wanna be complained. Odly enough, the person who complained has taken other threads further off course from open carry than anyone. Oh well...
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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  17. #17
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    If a bad commercial is on the TV do you sit thru it or change the channel? Its the same with the interwebs.... change the channel and find something that peaks your interest.

  18. #18
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinWKuska View Post
    wow... there is no need to sugar coat it.... Tell us how you really feel.
    hah.. Yeah, I don't really let things get to me especially things from the internet.. Let alone its awfully difficult to offend me. /shrug

    Or maybe I simply don't care that much.

    Its the internet. Consider the source of where the information was put there, and carefully consider if you should take it seriously or not.

    I deal with whiners quite often, and get sick of hearing about people whining about **** that honestly isn't important or its their own damn fault.

    That is all.

    Carry on with the internet ramblings!

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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  20. #20
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    One small thing on any open forum, and any topic.

    I cannot cause offence, you can only take offence, even if it was the original intention to cause offence....OK?

    The pen does not offend, anymore than a gun can kill.

    It would be my position if someone complained about what someone else had written to try to encourage tolerance...after all that is what most people want isn't it?

    If you want people to be tolerant of your views, you have to be tolerant theirs. Freedom begets freedom...Isn't that is the whole problem with the politically correct? They do not want anyone but themselves to be free. They are totally intolerant of another view.
    Last edited by hermannr; 03-31-2011 at 09:12 PM.

  21. #21
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    Sometimes stereotypes are earned, not bestowed upon.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I am going to agree with the OP. Many overtly racist comments and they have nothing to do with OC. I am not talking about comments that draw distinction on how people are viewed in public, I am talking about overtly racist comments. If you don't understand that, then it is probably you...

    Many on this forum have gotten into the habit of arguing for the sake of arguing. It is too bad.

    I have challenged myself to be an ambassador for OC and firearms in general. Whether in person or behind the anonymity of the internet I find it necessary to conduct myself as professional and polite as possible. I continue to challenge myself everyday with a high standard. Race, sex, religion have nothing to do with how I OC or conduct myself.
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  23. #23
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    I think the OP makes some very valid points and is just saying that he cannot recommend his students to visit this site. To a large part I agree with him that much of the discussion that goes on here can be quite shocking to someone who has not been exposed to 1) Internet forums in general and 2) Open carry or at least the carrying of guns. The combination of the two can be upsetting to, can I say a majority of, people. For someone who has "surfed" the Internet for a while and knows that people cannot be as stupid as they come across on line they can understand and ignore much of what is posted. Someone who has been around guns all their life and has not been conditioned that guns are evil contraptions and the work of the devil can wade through all the BS about Glocks vs. XD and that only a caliber that starts with a 4 can do any real damage to the human body.

    This is a great site for information and learning. Some of the discussions on here are are absolute gems in the interpretation of legal situations and for those I hang around here to learn. But I will admit to anyone there is a pile of useless stuff to sift through and if you recommend this site to anyone is should include a warning lable. I also recommend the Urbandictionary.com site as a good resource for information but I also include a big warning lable on that one.

    As a side note on wading through Internet trash do any of you ever read some of the product reviews that people post about different things they have purchased? The ones that I always wonder about are those that rate a product a 1 out of 10 because it didn't do something it was never designed to do, never advertised to do and specifically said that it wouldn't do? Liks the fellow that wanted to sue a company because a thermometer would not work in the 30 below weather at his house and the company refused to offer any help in making it work. The package and ads plainly said that the minimum tempature that it would read was 15 below zero. To get to the good stuff on the Internet you have to wade through a bunch of trash. As I used to tell people about the Internet, there is anything you want to know on there and a pile of stuff you didn't want to know.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Yeah unfortunately ive seen racism rear its ugly head more than a few times on these forums. The sad thing about racists are that there IS no discussing anything with them, they are set in their own ignorant, biased opinions and reason and logic is not something that works on them.
    Every now and then I find that some of the ones making those comments that you are referencing are the same ones that in the next sentence are the ones crying the loudest for "their" equal standing in other areas.

  25. #25
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    Triehl So you would condem the entire site for the actions of a few? Of the thousands and thousands of comments very few of them are out of line and when they are the poster is jumped upon pretty quickly. It sounds like you expect a perfect world, good luck with that. While I think we should all put our best foot forward everyone is also entitled to their opinion. Not being willing to hear an opposing opinion is pretty narrow minded in my opinion. While I disagree with many groups I am willing to fight and die to protect their right to voice their opinion, I suspect that you are not. I will finish with a final quote. Good luck

    "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
    people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
    -- Noam Chomsky

    BTW I am not in the least bit offended by GreenIsFasters comments about old fat white guys.

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