I think I am done here.

Sometimes stereotypes are earned, not bestowed upon.

I am going to agree with the OP. Many overtly racist comments and they have nothing to do with OC. I am not talking about comments that draw distinction on how people are viewed in public, I am talking about overtly racist comments. If you don't understand that, then it is probably you...

Many on this forum have gotten into the habit of arguing for the sake of arguing. It is too bad.

I have challenged myself to be an ambassador for OC and firearms in general. Whether in person or behind the anonymity of the internet I find it necessary to conduct myself as professional and polite as possible. I continue to challenge myself everyday with a high standard. Race, sex, religion have nothing to do with how I OC or conduct myself.

Yeah unfortunately ive seen racism rear its ugly head more than a few times on these forums. The sad thing about racists are that there IS no discussing anything with them, they are set in their own ignorant, biased opinions and reason and logic is not something that works on them.

I think the OP makes some very valid points and is just saying that he cannot recommend his students to visit this site. To a large part I agree with him that much of the discussion that goes on here can be quite shocking to someone who has not been exposed to 1) Internet forums in general and 2) Open carry or at least the carrying of guns. The combination of the two can be upsetting to, can I say a majority of, people. For someone who has "surfed" the Internet for a while and knows that people cannot be as stupid as they come across on line they can understand and ignore much of what is posted. Someone who has been around guns all their life and has not been conditioned that guns are evil contraptions and the work of the devil can wade through all the BS about Glocks vs. XD and that only a caliber that starts with a 4 can do any real damage to the human body.

This is a great site for information and learning. Some of the discussions on here are are absolute gems in the interpretation of legal situations and for those I hang around here to learn. But I will admit to anyone there is a pile of useless stuff to sift through and if you recommend this site to anyone is should include a warning lable. I also recommend the Urbandictionary.com site as a good resource for information but I also include a big warning lable on that one.

As a side note on wading through Internet trash do any of you ever read some of the product reviews that people post about different things they have purchased? The ones that I always wonder about are those that rate a product a 1 out of 10 because it didn't do something it was never designed to do, never advertised to do and specifically said that it wouldn't do? Liks the fellow that wanted to sue a company because a thermometer would not work in the 30 below weather at his house and the company refused to offer any help in making it work. The package and ads plainly said that the minimum tempature that it would read was 15 below zero. To get to the good stuff on the Internet you have to wade through a bunch of trash. As I used to tell people about the Internet, there is anything you want to know on there and a pile of stuff you didn't want to know.

Claytron said:

Yeah unfortunately ive seen racism rear its ugly head more than a few times on these forums. The sad thing about racists are that there IS no discussing anything with them, they are set in their own ignorant, biased opinions and reason and logic is not something that works on them.

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Every now and then I find that some of the ones making those comments that you are referencing are the same ones that in the next sentence are the ones crying the loudest for "their" equal standing in other areas.

Triehl So you would condem the entire site for the actions of a few? Of the thousands and thousands of comments very few of them are out of line and when they are the poster is jumped upon pretty quickly. It sounds like you expect a perfect world, good luck with that. While I think we should all put our best foot forward everyone is also entitled to their opinion. Not being willing to hear an opposing opinion is pretty narrow minded in my opinion. While I disagree with many groups I am willing to fight and die to protect their right to voice their opinion, I suspect that you are not. I will finish with a final quote. Good luck

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-- Noam Chomsky

BTW I am not in the least bit offended by GreenIsFasters comments about old fat white guys.

Orphan said:

Triehl So you would condem the entire site for the actions of a few? Of the thousands and thousands of comments very few of them are out of line and when they are the poster is jumped upon pretty quickly. It sounds like you expect a perfect world, good luck with that. While I think we should all put our best foot forward everyone is also entitled to their opinion. Not being willing to hear an opposing opinion is pretty narrow minded in my opinion. While I disagree with many groups I am willing to fight and die to protect their right to voice their opinion, I suspect that you are not. I will finish with a final quote. Good luck

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-- Noam Chomsky

BTW I am not in the least bit offended by GreenIsFasters comments about old fat white guys.

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The few threads ive seen with racist comments didnt have the offenders being "jumped on" by other commentators, it seemed more like it drew others with like-minded racist opinions, i guess they feel safer in groups.


So you are willing to fight and die to protect someones right to be a racist idiot and call another person a porch monkey or a cracker? Dont be so dramatic dude...

I thought it was only one member, who posted something that could be deemed as racism. And he left it at two posts. The majority of the posters opposed that point view I wish your students would have seen that.

I don't see "many" examples of racism here.

I also like to point out there is no "higher" ups here, I still think this is a great place and recommend people here. I also point out that there are many opposing views and personalities on this board and warn folks to have a thick skin.

I am kinda saddened though, to find out what I was hoping would help attract people to us is turning people away.

Claytron said:

The few threads ive seen with racist comments didnt have the offenders being "jumped on" by other commentators, it seemed more like it drew others with like-minded racist opinions, i guess they feel safer in groups.


So you are willing to fight and die to protect someones right to be a racist idiot and call another person a porch monkey or a cracker? Dont be so dramatic dude...

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Yes I am DUDE. Evidently you are only willing to defend what you think is correct, that kind of thinking will eventually put an end to this country. Let me ask you a question what are you willing to defend, where do you draw the line?

Claytron said:

...So you are willing to fight and die to protect someones right to be a racist idiot and call another person a porch monkey or a cracker? Dont be so dramatic dude...

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I know Orphan well and dramatic is not a word I would use do describe him. If he says he would fight and die for your right to be an a-hole, he means it. Many of us here would make the same offer. The fact that you don't take that seriously is very interesting to me.



Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Orphan said:

Yes I am DUDE. Evidently you are only willing to defend what you think is correct, that kind of thinking will eventually put an end to this country. Let me ask you a question what are you willing to defend, where do you draw the line?

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+1 Rights are rights, we might absolutely detest it, but that's the price of freedom.

It also leaves me the freedom to denounce and publicly despise those comments.

sudden valley gunner said:

+1 Rights are rights, we might absolutely detest it, but that's the price of freedom.

It also leaves me the freedom to denounce and publicly despise those comments.

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SVG you and Snarly get it, its too bad so many others dont.

BTW just to be clear I dont condone racisim in any form.

I just wrote this long reply addressing a ton of what is in the replys to my OP. But instead I'll shorten it to this.

When I joined OCDO, the majority of the threads on here were of positive encounters, educating persons about OC. But if we are trying to educate and enlighten as was stated at the Dino's meeting over a year ago, and we are having to stand behind those that will also preach intolerance towards others for us to be represented, what kind of hypocrisy is that? Of if it ourselves that is saying, I want to educate and open the eyes and minds to people to this manner of carry but I will not tolerate a person of "XYZ" Muslim, Gay, Democrat, Republican, whatever. Again what hypocrisy is that?

If you are being robbed, stabbed, killed, folded, spindled or mutilated, does it matter who saves your life? Black, White, Straight, Gay, Catholic, Muslim, Baptist, Wahhabi, Superman, Batman, Aquaman, or Lex Luthor? ? You lived because someone took the time and effort to act on your behalf. Isn't that what matters?

I hope that OCDO continues strong, and that the OCDO movement continues to grow.

Good Night all,

This will make for a fun 2A rally.Free speach is one of the things I will protect but not political correctness ,it is destroying America and will turn us into a third world toilet .I have been to one in the army and I will not allow America to lower our standards to that level in the name of tolerence and political correctness.Its turning us into a bunch of weenies .My 2A rights will be used to defend this country from all enemies foriegn and DOMESTIC as I was sworn to do in the Army.I may take one of the speakers slots myself and speak on the subject.1st amendment i'm sure you all support for everyone!So lets see everyone there.

Here is the Rally anouncement in the this months gun news....for those that haven't seen it.Its going to be a good one.

Every time someone posts "Whaaaaa I'm leaving this forum" an angel loses his wings.

triehl27 said:

SNIP My last class of 8 women came and looked through here on Sunday, and I have gotten several emails about the behaviors in several of the threads. From racial profiling, to hatred, to outright racism where some of the things mentioned in the 4 emails I received.

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No offense, but it seems a little misaligned to teach women about a brutal subject (self-defense), but then be worried or concerned their sensibilities might be injured, and/or react to their injured sensibilities.

Why not teach them about this stuff, too. You know, "Hey, its a mean world out there sometimes. Mankind has only evolved so far. This is mild compared to somebody trying to shove a knife in your ribs." That sort of thing.

Thomas Jefferson said [paraphrase] he would rather endure the inconveniences that attend too much liberty than those that attend too little.

Offensive comments is part of that.

The real question is, "How much valuable data can be extracted?"

Elevate your concern for your students. Toughen them up a little.

Besides, every one of us has to skim through, over, and around the junk here in order to get the useful stuff. Still beats having to dig through musty books and write tons of letters to total strangers hoping they will reply with something useful.

Dave_pro2a said:

Every time someone posts "Whaaaaa I'm leaving this forum" an angel loses his wings.

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Amen!!! Some need to grow a pair ....and quit whining ..man its a good thing I'm not opinionated

What can be so difficult about reporting a problem? That is what the triangle icon/button is there for - click it.

John has often extolled us to be self-moderating. When that fails, give OCDO some help. Neither John nor the mods can be everywhere and see everything. Teamwork can cover a lot more ground.

Citizen said:

No offense, but it seems a little misaligned to teach women about a brutal subject (self-defense), but then be worried or concerned their sensibilities might be injured, and/or react to their injured sensibilities.

Why not teach them about this stuff, too. You know, "Hey, its a mean world out there sometimes. Mankind has only evolved so far. This is mild compared to somebody trying to shove a knife in your ribs." That sort of thing.

Thomas Jefferson said [paraphrase] he would rather endure the inconveniences that attend too much liberty than those that attend too little.

Offensive comments is part of that.



The real question is, "How much valuable data can be extracted?"

Elevate your concern for your students. Toughen them up a little.

Besides, every one of us has to skim through, over, and around the junk here in order to get the useful stuff. Still beats having to dig through musty books and write tons of letters to total strangers hoping they will reply with something useful.

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I like that toughen them up.People are to worried about hurting someones feelings. I wonder if the guys that beheaded David Pearl on the internet would hold hands with you and sing coumbyah. Regonize the dangers in this country and stand against it and quit worrying about hurting their feelings.
When we ambushed a bunch of VC in the Nam and killed everyone of them we didn't worry about being politically correct.They had already killed 5 of us.
It certainly wasn't a bunch of Catholic school boys that crashed the planes into the trade center .We can never forgive that .We all know who crashed those planes and its beginning to run rampant in this country and political correctness is not the answer the 2nd amendment is!

DEROS72 said:

SNIP Regonize the dangers in this country and stand against it and quit worrying about hurting their feelings.

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Thanks for the compliment. And, thanks for reminding me of something I left out--thought of it, then forgot it by the time I got further along.


Triehl27,

You could also encourage the women to chip in their voice of reason. To stand against the fixed ideas, to add their flame, perhaps to illuminate some shadows, if not darkness.