Can Ammo Manufacturers be far behind?

amlevin · Mar 31, 2011

Yesterday I was in the grocery store picking up the weekly essentials. Got into a conversation with the check-out clerk on how prices were going up on just about everything. My wife commented that if the price hadn't gone up then the size of the package or amount of contents had gone down, therefore more cost per "unit". The clerk told us that Coke was a good example of that in that their shelf sized Case was now 20 cans instead of 24.

OK, now to the Ammo manufacturers. For as long as I can remember, rifle ammo has been boxed in '20's and pistol ammo in '50's. A while back I was somewhat surprised to note some pistol ammo now being boxed in packages of 20 for the more "exotic" and thus more expensive types.

How long until the regular sized boxes start to shrink, with the price remaining the same? How long before Rifle ammo is packed in boxes of let's say 12 and pistol in boxes of 40?

How will price increases affect your practice time? Do you think reloading might become more attractive to a larger group of pistol shooters?

If practice time is decreased due to costs, what other actions will you take to keep your gun handling skills sharp?

Aryk45XD · Mar 31, 2011

NavyLT said:
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I couldn't help but laugh at that. RTC has been using that for years to qualify rifle. Ammo has definitely been getting more expensive though.

amlevin · Apr 1, 2011

Where's the coin slot???

ak56 · Apr 1, 2011

amlevin said:
Yesterday I was in the grocery store picking up the weekly essentials. Got into a conversation with the check-out clerk on how prices were going up on just about everything. My wife commented that if the price hadn't gone up then the size of the package or amount of contents had gone down, therefore more cost per "unit". The clerk told us that Coke was a good example of that in that their shelf sized Case was now 20 cans instead of 24.

OK, now to the Ammo manufacturers. For as long as I can remember, rifle ammo has been boxed in '20's and pistol ammo in '50's. A while back I was somewhat surprised to note some pistol ammo now being boxed in packages of 20 for the more "exotic" and thus more expensive types.

How long until the regular sized boxes start to shrink, with the price remaining the same? How long before Rifle ammo is packed in boxes of let's say 12 and pistol in boxes of 40?

How will price increases affect your practice time? Do you think reloading might become more attractive to a larger group of pistol shooters?

If practice time is decreased due to costs, what other actions will you take to keep your gun handling skills sharp?

Some stores are taking a different approach, repackaging ammo:

.22LR's are packaged as .22 WMR
.22 Shorts are being packaged .22LR
.22CB ... as .22 shorts.
9mm ... as 45ACP
.25 ... as 9mm

etc.

Check those packages carefully! It's true

! I've seen it done!

PT111 · Apr 1, 2011

If you are just now catching on to that you are either worrying too much about your defensive alertness and need to sell your gun to step back into reality or you don't go shopping very much. Back around 1968 or so you could buy a package of cheese crackers (Nabs) for a nickle. It had four peanut-butter sandwich crackers in it. The company purchased some new wrapping equipment that allowed them to put 6 in a package and charged a dime for them. The nickle packages soon disappeared.

Cokes can in either 12 ounce bottles or 6.5 ounce bottles usually priced at 10 cents or 7 cents. Now you are not sure what size you are getting. Look at ice cread. It used to be half-gallon cartons, now it it 1.5 or 1.75 quarts. Check out the size of candy bars or almost anything else you buy. Gas used to be sold by the gallon but now it is still sold by the gallon but with 10% alcohol.

As far as ammo the "exotic" ammo has always been sold in packages of 20. Shotgun shells used to be 25 but I have seen boxes of 20 available at a "sale" price. It is very possible that ammo may be sold in boxes of 40 and the price reduced to what should be a box of 45. There are all kinds of things like that which manufacturers can and will do. However they will look at how much it will cost them to change their packaging and will they do better just to raise the price and keep it the same size. Just like with nabs they couldn't change the size of the packaging until they developed the new packaging equipment. Now that nickle package of nabs is 50 cents on sale.

ak56 · Apr 1, 2011

I actually heard a spokesperson for a candy company a few years ago defend their decision to make candy bars smaller because "that's what consumers wanted".

What consumers actually wanted was for them not to increase the price. By keeping the price the same and making the product smaller, profits would increase, and the consumers wouldn't be smart enough to notice.

DEROS72 · Apr 1, 2011

PT111 said:
If you are just now catching on to that you are either worrying too much about your defensive alertness and need to sell your gun to step back into reality or you don't go shopping very much. Back around 1968 or so you could buy a package of cheese crackers (Nabs) for a nickle. It had four peanut-butter sandwich crackers in it. The company purchased some new wrapping equipment that allowed them to put 6 in a package and charged a dime for them. The nickle packages soon disappeared. Cokes can in either 12 ounce bottles or 6.5 ounce bottles usually priced at 10 cents or 7 cents. Now you are not sure what size you are getting. Look at ice cread. It used to be half-gallon cartons, now it it 1.5 or 1.75 quarts. Check out the size of candy bars or almost anything else you buy. Gas used to be sold by the gallon but now it is still sold by the gallon but with 10% alcohol.

As far as ammo the "exotic" ammo has always been sold in packages of 20. Shotgun shells used to be 25 but I have seen boxes of 20 available at a "sale" price. It is very possible that ammo may be sold in boxes of 40 and the price reduced to what should be a box of 45. There are all kinds of things like that which manufacturers can and will do. However they will look at how much it will cost them to change their packaging and will they do better just to raise the price and keep it the same size. Just like with nabs they couldn't change the size of the packaging until they developed the new packaging equipment. Now that nickle package of nabs is 50 cents on sale.

I remember those days 59 ,60, 61 mom used to give us a nickle to by a coke when we went to the barber shop and complained that hamburger was up to 19cents a pound.My father owned a couple of guns but I was to young to pay attention what he paid for ammo.I remember he told me once a surplus rifle he had cost him $12.95.He had apellet gun and I used to watch him shoot at a mouse we had in the garage.He started teaching me to shoot very young and I got a winchester modell 77 .22 for my 12th birthday.
I wish we could bring back those days.We lived in a huge brick house outside of Houston,dad worked for NASA ,with 4 big white pillers in front.I think dad told me he paid 14,500 for that house which was huge then.Really nice neighborhood not like today.

DevinWKuska · Apr 1, 2011

amlevin said:
Yesterday I was in the grocery store picking up the weekly essentials. Got into a conversation with the check-out clerk on how prices were going up on just about everything. My wife commented that if the price hadn't gone up then the size of the package or amount of contents had gone down, therefore more cost per "unit". The clerk told us that Coke was a good example of that in that their shelf sized Case was now 20 cans instead of 24.

OK, now to the Ammo manufacturers. For as long as I can remember, rifle ammo has been boxed in '20's and pistol ammo in '50's. A while back I was somewhat surprised to note some pistol ammo now being boxed in packages of 20 for the more "exotic" and thus more expensive types.

How long until the regular sized boxes start to shrink, with the price remaining the same? How long before Rifle ammo is packed in boxes of let's say 12 and pistol in boxes of 40?

How will price increases affect your practice time? Do you think reloading might become more attractive to a larger group of pistol shooters?

If practice time is decreased due to costs, what other actions will you take to keep your gun handling skills sharp?

IMO I think ammunition prices will stay semi-normalized. Ammunition manufacturing is already highly profitable. Especially if your company sells to the govt(sory folks war is god or biz). Another thing to consider is ammunition is linked (duh) to the firearm industry. Both industries want to keep current customers and be be priced so that they can cater to new customers. If HG's went up to $1k a pop for a low end and rounds were $3 a shot... not a whole lot of shooting going to go on, and that wouldnt be great for attracting potentialy new customers.

Regarding reloading... The gun and ammunition manufacturers already pretty much own or control the cost of reloading components. I suspect if they wanted to increase profits by ammuniton sales, component prices would elevate as well. But thats just my opinion no facts to support

On a side not I think paying even $12 for a box of 9mm is too much, and why the heck is 380 ammo more expensive then 9mm? .380 is a short 9mm ffs!

amzbrady · Apr 2, 2011

I'm still trying to figure out how everything has went up in cost in the last 3 years and the only people who have gotten raises or cost of living increases are Government workers and people on welfare.

amlevin · Apr 2, 2011

DevinWKuska said:
Regarding reloading... The gun and ammunition manufacturers already pretty much own or control the cost of reloading components. I suspect if they wanted to increase profits by ammuniton sales, component prices would elevate as well. But thats just my opinion no facts to support

On a side not I think paying even $12 for a box of 9mm is too much, and why the heck is 380 ammo more expensive then 9mm? .380 is a short 9mm ffs!

As a reloader that buys huge quantities of powder, primers, and bullets every year I can attest to the control that the ammo manufacturers have over prices. The manner they use though is one of flow control. When they have lots of orders for fixed ammo, they direct all the powder and primer supplies they control to production of that ammo. When these orders drop they then release more powder an primers to the component market.

Reloaders that go through large quantities, like me, buy when prices are low and supplies are high. By doing so I can shoot quality 9mm ammo that costs me about $0.10 per round or $100/thousand. Compare that with the above example of $12/box or $240/thousand.

My .308 Match Grade ammo costs me around $0.40/round. A box of the so called "Gold Standard" Federal match grade ammo sells for around $40/box of 20 or $2.00 per round.

As for .223, my reloaded ammo costs me $0.16 per round and the cheapest factory ammo with brass re-loadable case is currently selling for $0.375/round ($375/thousand).

Reloading components are not totally controlled by ammo manufacturers. Many ammo manufacturers have to rely on powder manufacturers for supply. Likewise with primers. The only way they have any real control is by their priority demands. Foreign manufacturers are also part of the game and their supply helps moderate costs.

As for your question on why .380 ammo costs more than 9mm, it's merely a matter of demand. There are far fewer boxes of .380 sold than of 9mm. 9mm is offered by so many different manufacturers that there is price competition. Not as much with .380 and other calibers that are not as popular as they once were.

MSG Laigaie · Apr 3, 2011

Beamhit

NavyLT mentioned Beamhit, I have used it. I even bought one for myself.
I built a rifle range using beamhit products when I was stationed in Vicksburg,MS. I carried the system with me to the ranges the day of qualification and set up in a building on the grounds. Shooters practiced on the beamhit using thier own weapons, not a toy. For the first time my entire unit (appx275 pax) qualified with thier individual weapons M9, M16A2. I believe this was an important tool for my soldiers. I like the way it can be used anywhere, anytime. Good tool, no range needed, no bullets expended.

Can Ammo Manufacturers be far behind?

amlevin

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Aryk45XD

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amlevin

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ak56

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PT111

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ak56

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DEROS72

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DevinWKuska

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amzbrady

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amlevin

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MSG Laigaie

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