Email to my Alabama State Representatives

Saint1911 · Apr 1, 2011

I sent this email to my state representatives. I am considering a similar email to the NRA as well as my Federal representatives and hope for a federal bill similar to the LEO Protection Act.

Honored Representatives,

I am a legal resident of Alabama. I am also anActive Duty member of the United States Navy. I have had permanent duty orders to Virginia since 1998 but maintain my legal residence in Alabama. I have a concealed handgun permit for Virginia but it is not recognized in Alabama. When I visit Alabama, I am not in town long enough to complete the process to obtain an Alabama Concealed Handgun Permit nor can I be guaranteed to make it home to renew a permit during a given month of each year. In recent years, you have passed legislation that allows me to use my military leave papers as a de facto hunting and fishing license for which I thank you. I would also like to see you continue this effort to assist military members with some sort of similar legislation regarding the lawful carry of handguns for Active Duty Military.

Currently on the Federal level H.B. 822 will, if passed, will provide for national reciprocity of concealed handgun permits but other versions of this bill have been introduced over the past decade and all have stalled in either the House or the Senate.

On a state level, I would like to see legislation to Georgia’s laws regarding Active Duty Military and the Right to carry concealed handguns. I have hyper linked the GA statute in this email also the key excerpt from the statute is included below. Essentially, I would like to see legislation that allows an Active Duty Military ID to serve as a license to carry a concealed weapon in the State of Alabama much in the manner that Law Enforcement Identification allows our Law Enforcement members to carry a weapon while in an off duty status. I feel that the men and women of the Armed Services should be allowed to practice the rights that we have sacrificed much to defend. By passing legislation of this type, you will be providing the means for Alabama’s members of the Armed Forces to practice our Second Amendment Rights when visiting our home state while on Military Leave.
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-130
Exemptions from Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-127.2
(a) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-127.2 shall not apply to or affect any of the following persons if such persons are employed in the offices listed below or when authorized by federal or state law, regulations, or order:

(1) Peace officers, as such term is defined in paragraph (11) of Code Section 16-1-3, and retired peace officers so long as they remain certified whether employed by the state or a political subdivision of the state or another state or a political subdivision of another state but only if such other state provides a similar privilege for the peace officers of this state;

(2) Wardens, superintendents, and keepers of correctional institutions, jails, or other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of an offense;

(3) Persons in the military service of the state or of the United States;

Thank you all for your time. If you would like to further discuss legislation of the manner described above, I can be reached by replying to this email address as well via the contact information below.

Any thoughts?

AirBear · Apr 1, 2011

Very well written letter.
All I can say is I hope you have better response from your elected officials and representatives than I do. I make the mistake every election year, thinking that the new batch of politicians will do a better job in responding to the wishes of those who elected them.
Unfortunately, I seem to get disapointed every time.

skidmark · Apr 1, 2011

It's way too long and wordy for a general-distribution email. Reduce it to PowerPoint-like short, sweet statements. Put your references to other states' legislation at the end along with hyperlinks, with a statement that it has already been done here and there without any problems arising, so Alabama should expect no problems as well.

Coordinate with Alabamaopencarry.com, who seems to be the power player. If they are not on your side you might expect more resistance from the legislature.

Target the power players in the legislature who are gun-rights supporters and follow up to them and your House and Senate reps with snail mail and an extended presentation. Find out who might be willing to sponsor a bill and work with/on them.

BTW, expect some opposition based on the fact that your proposal creates another "special class" of citizen.

Have you looked into getting a Utah permit? Alabama recognizes it. http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQother.html

stay safe.

stay safe.

Kingfish · Apr 1, 2011

So, more rights for agents of the state than of it's citizens? This "only ones" attitude is quite disgusting.

How about getting rid of ALL exceptions and we all be equal. Unless some are more equal than others.

I do thank you for your service and wish you safe.

Saint1911 · Apr 1, 2011

It is a little wordy, I agree there. I expect opposition no matter what but it is, in my opinion, a step in the right direction. Although it could be viewed as creating a special class of citizen, I believe it could be a stepping stone for the general population. Several states are looking at giving elected officials special "rights" to carry. Every special class is more ammunition for the gun lobby to get those same rights for the general public. I may be off base but in my opinion crawling to the finish line(read as nation wide Constitutional Carry) is better than not getting there at all.

eye95 · Apr 1, 2011

As I have said in the same thread on ALOC and the thread here dedicated to discussing national reciprocity, I think national reciprocity is a horrible idea.

If you want to know why, please look at the national reciprocity thread. I don't want to foster a second discussion on the same topic.

skidmark · Apr 1, 2011

Saint1911 said:
It is a little wordy, I agree there. I expect opposition no matter what but it is, in my opinion, a step in the right direction. Although it could be viewed as creating a special class of citizen, I believe it could be a stepping stone for the general population. Several states are looking at giving elected officials special "rights" to carry. Every special class is more ammunition for the gun lobby to get those same rights for the general public. I may be off base but in my opinion crawling to the finish line(read as nation wide Constitutional Carry) is better than not getting there at all.

I'm going to put away the charm and grace and take off the kid gloves. Who do you think you are to be treated as special?

Yes, I understand that you are active duty military and that involves some degree of grief that those not serving do not have to put up with. But I was once active duty myself, and never considered my status as deserving special recognition. If being active duty got in the way of something I either found a way around it (Utah permit to the rescue) or sucked it up and waited for karma to add up so I could cash in.

You want support for being on active duty? You got it! You want support if/when you get deployed OCONUS? You got it! You want to be treated as a specially priviliged person just because you are on active duty? No way - you don't get special liberties and freedoms that are not available to the rest of the citizens. It's bad enough cops and politicians get to be more equal than the rest of us.

I disagree with your contention that "Every special class is more ammunition for the gun lobby to get those same rights for the general public" - it's just the creation of special classes that exclude the general population. It means everybody has to have/be a "special case" and puts us right back in the days when The Powers That Be can decide arbitrarily who gets to carry and who they can prevent from carrying. The fight to get to objective standards was too long and bloody to give it up and slide back.

stay safe.

Daylen · Apr 2, 2011

skidmark said:
I'm going to put away the charm and grace and take off the kid gloves. Who do you think you are to be treated as special?

Yes, I understand that you are active duty military and that involves some degree of grief that those not serving do not have to put up with. But I was once active duty myself, and never considered my status as deserving special recognition. If being active duty got in the way of something I either found a way around it (Utah permit to the rescue) or sucked it up and waited for karma to add up so I could cash in.

You want support for being on active duty? You got it! You want support if/when you get deployed OCONUS? You got it! You want to be treated as a specially priviliged person just because you are on active duty? No way - you don't get special liberties and freedoms that are not available to the rest of the citizens. It's bad enough cops and politicians get to be more equal than the rest of us.

I disagree with your contention that "Every special class is more ammunition for the gun lobby to get those same rights for the general public" - it's just the creation of special classes that exclude the general population. It means everybody has to have/be a "special case" and puts us right back in the days when The Powers That Be can decide arbitrarily who gets to carry and who they can prevent from carrying. The fight to get to objective standards was too long and bloody to give it up and slide back.

stay safe.

Well said. Also, I think it a healthy reminder for military types to have to go through grief and not be given a special status. Helps the brain remember the citizen part of citizen soldier instead of special class soldier.

Saint1911 · Apr 2, 2011

Daylen said:
Well said. Also, I think it a healthy reminder for military types to have to go through grief and not be given a special status. Helps the brain remember the citizen part of citizen soldier instead of special class soldier.

skidmark said:
I'm going to put away the charm and grace and take off the kid gloves. Who do you think you are to be treated as special?

Yes, I understand that you are active duty military and that involves some degree of grief that those not serving do not have to put up with. But I was once active duty myself, and never considered my status as deserving special recognition. If being active duty got in the way of something I either found a way around it (Utah permit to the rescue) or sucked it up and waited for karma to add up so I could cash in.

You want support for being on active duty? You got it! You want support if/when you get deployed OCONUS? You got it! You want to be treated as a specially priviliged person just because you are on active duty? No way - you don't get special liberties and freedoms that are not available to the rest of the citizens. It's bad enough cops and politicians get to be more equal than the rest of us.

I disagree with your contention that "Every special class is more ammunition for the gun lobby to get those same rights for the general public" - it's just the creation of special classes that exclude the general population. It means everybody has to have/be a "special case" and puts us right back in the days when The Powers That Be can decide arbitrarily who gets to carry and who they can prevent from carrying. The fight to get to objective standards was too long and bloody to give it up and slide back.

stay safe.

This isn't about going through grief or sacrifice or anything else. It is about my RIGHT to carry a weapon. It isn't about special privelege or some "Special Class" of soldier. Ultimately, I beleive EVERY CITIZEN has a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to keep an adequate means to defend themselve. Until something better is invented that means is a handgun. As far as your healthy reminder BS, I have some comments to that respect that arent appropriate. Being allowed to carry a weapon in Alabama is the absolute least of my sacrifices and I am perfectly ok with the sacrifices I have made over the years that I have served. I don't want a thank you or "support". Your support is lip service just like that lip service I get from most people who "support" the military. I don't do my job to get your support. I do it because I enjoy my job and I believe in what I do. I am in the military for my own PERSONAL reasons and I get my own PERSONAL satisfaction out of what I do. If you don't like that attittude, well, tough, I'm not elected I volunteered so I have no requirement or obligation to tell you what you want to hear.

In terms of Skidmarks reccomendation of a UTAH CCP, The website says you may apply in person at what ever address, How do I get to UTAH if I can't get to Alabama? Problem not solved. That said I am working on getting a Florida nonresident permit. Still I believe any pro gun bill is a good one.

On the subject of the email I sent, Like it or don't, doesn't much matter. One day I hope all Americans can carry openly or concealed with no permits at all. Until then I say every PRO Gun bill passed in EVERY state takes us one step closer. I don't only support the ones that help me and I am not looking to make the military a "special class" of citizen. I support ANY measure that moves the issue of gun rights in the right direction.

Ok, everyone flame on...

skidmark · Apr 2, 2011

Saint1911 said:
This isn't about going through grief or sacrifice or anything else. It is about my RIGHT to carry a weapon. It isn't about special privelege or some "Special Class" of soldier. Ultimately, I beleive EVERY CITIZEN has a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to keep an adequate means to defend themselve. You are in fact asking to be treated as a special class. And if Alabama has made it a crime to carry a concealed handgun and provided for an exception to that via having a permit/license then you need to either OC or get with the program and get a permit/license. More on that later.

Until something better is invented that means is a handgun. As far as your healthy reminder BS, I have some comments to that respect that arent appropriate. Being allowed to carry a weapon in Alabama is the absolute least of my sacrifices and I am perfectly ok with the sacrifices I have made over the years that I have served. I don't want a thank you or "support". Your support is lip service just like that lip service I get from most people who "support" the military. I don't do my job to get your support. I do it because I enjoy my job and I believe in what I do. I am in the military for my own PERSONAL reasons and I get my own PERSONAL satisfaction out of what I do. If you don't like that attittude, well, tough, I'm not elected I volunteered so I have no requirement or obligation to tell you what you want to hear. Fine with me. Just don't cry about how your being on active duty interferes with your wishes and wants.

In terms of Skidmarks reccomendation of a UTAH CCP, The website says you may apply in person at what ever address, How do I get to UTAH if I can't get to Alabama? Problem not solved. That said I am working on getting a Florida nonresident permit. There are at least half a dozen folks in the NoVa area who teach the Utah CC class. But I guess you never thought to find out if there was a class you could take locally and qualify for the Utah permit. If you want to get the Florida permit instead, go ahead and do it. It only took me half a day to go through the class, and then about 3 weeks to wait for the permit to show up in the mail. Or, if you wanted to, you could apply for a Virginia CHP which invoplves submitting paperwork and waiting a maximum of 45 days.

Still I believe any pro gun bill is a good one. We disagree here. I do not see creating special privileges as being "pro" gun. You are welcome to explain why you see creating a special provilege as being "pro" gun.

On the subject of the email I sent, Like it or don't, doesn't much matter. You asked for input. You got some. Take it or don't take it. It's not my issue that's on the line.

One day I hope all Americans can carry openly or concealed with no permits at all. Until then I say every PRO Gun bill passed in EVERY state takes us one step closer. I don't only support the ones that help me and I am not looking to make the military a "special class" of citizen. I support ANY measure that moves the issue of gun rights in the right direction. Again, we disagree. I have laid out why I disagree with you. So far all you have done is say you do not agree with me. If you want to get me to stop disagreeing with you, and even support you, show me where my errors are - don't just say you disagree.

Ok, everyone flame on...

Why bother to flame anyone or anything? I've explained my position and why I hold to it. You have looked at my position and rejected it. I lose nothing by you rejecting it.

However, you might want to consider why you are not getting any support so far.

stay safe

Daylen · Apr 2, 2011

Saint1911 said:
Ok, everyone flame on...

I'll not participate in any such childishness.

As far as using any military papers in lue of a CPL in Alabama. That would be an exception to a law. It is currently illegal to conceal a pistol or carry a pistol in a vehicle in Alabama, the CPL is an exception to that along with a few other listed ones such as for police. As such it is a privilege not a recognized right in Alabama. Perhaps eventually this can be changed, but for now it is law. I do not want anyone being above the CPL, for if I must be subject to such an injustice all others should be as well; otherwise it is not equal justice. Thus I certainly do not like the idea of adding any more exceptions to the law. Such a law as you propose is not a Pro gun freedom law, for freedom for only a select few is tyranny for all.

If you were proposing the elimination of the requirement for a CPL in general or even just for vehicle carry, for everyone I would agree.

Daylen · Apr 2, 2011

Oh and before getting an out of state nonresident permit for use in Alabama read the following link. http://www.ago.alabama.gov/publications_gun.cfm#nonresident
It is not clear if such a permit would be legally recognized by a court in Alabama.

Kirbinator · Apr 2, 2011

You should have no barrier to applying for a receiving a pistol license. Fill out the form (whatever you think you must) with your permanent (Alabama) address and mail it to the sheriff. Include a short letter detailing that you are TDY to where ever. You may want to include a copy of your military ID and/or orders. The sheriff should deem you a "proper person" and issue you a concealed pistol license.

JoeSparky · Apr 2, 2011

Quoted by Saint1911---
"In terms of Skidmarks reccomendation of a UTAH CCP, The website says you may apply in person at what ever address, How do I get to UTAH if I can't get to Alabama? Problem not solved. That said I am working on getting a Florida nonresident permit. Still I believe any pro gun bill is a good one."

You CAN apply in person for a CCP BUT it is not required. Mail-in applications are accepted any day the mail is delivered. Beware, IF you choose to get UTAH's permit do so quickly as we have had a change in our law effective May 10, 2011 that would require you to have a permit from YOUR state of residence IF it is a State that recognizes UTAH's permit and you meet Utah's other requirements. In your case per your post that would be ALABAMA or Utah will not issue you one. Now, if you had a legal residence in Chicago, Wisconsin, or Washington DC they will continue to issue permits as along as you meet Utah's other requirements.

Daylen · Apr 2, 2011

Kirbinator said:
You should have no barrier to applying for a receiving a pistol license. Fill out the form (whatever you think you must) with your permanent (Alabama) address and mail it to the sheriff. Include a short letter detailing that you are TDY to where ever. You may want to include a copy of your military ID and/or orders. The sheriff should deem you a "proper person" and issue you a concealed pistol license.

+1
It is very simple and easy to file for and get a permit in AL; as long as the sheriff is a good and lawful in his duties, which is usually the case.

eye95 · Apr 2, 2011

Daylen said:
Oh and before getting an out of state nonresident permit for use in Alabama read the following link. http://www.ago.alabama.gov/publications_gun.cfm#nonresident
It is not clear if such a permit would be legally recognized by a court in Alabama.

Section 13A-11-85
Reciprocity for licenses issued in other states.

(a) A person licensed to carry a handgun in any state whose laws recognize and give effect in that state to a license issued under the laws of the State of Alabama shall be authorized to carry a handgun in this state. This section shall apply to a licenseholder from another state only while the licenseholder is not a resident of this state. A licenseholder from another state shall carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

(b) The Attorney General shall periodically publish a list of states which meet the requirements of subsection (a).
(Act 2001-494, p. 862, §1.)

Residents of AL (which the OP says he is despite living out of State on military orders) may not carry concealed using a non-resident license or permit from a reciprocating State. See the parts in bold.

skidmark · Apr 3, 2011

eye95 said:
Residents of AL (which the OP says he is despite living out of State on military orders) may not carry concealed using a non-resident license or permit from a reciprocating State. See the parts in bold.

My bad. I apologize for failing to understand Alabama law regarding that.

All other comments stand.

stay safe.

FTG-05 · Apr 5, 2011

JoeSparky said:
Quoted by Saint1911---
"In terms of Skidmarks reccomendation of a UTAH CCP, The website says you may apply in person at what ever address, How do I get to UTAH if I can't get to Alabama? Problem not solved. That said I am working on getting a Florida nonresident permit. Still I believe any pro gun bill is a good one."

You CAN apply in person for a CCP BUT it is not required. Mail-in applications are accepted any day the mail is delivered. Beware, IF you choose to get UTAH's permit do so quickly as we have had a change in our law effective May 10, 2011 that would require you to have a permit from YOUR state of residence IF it is a State that recognizes UTAH's permit and you meet Utah's other requirements. In your case per your post that would be ALABAMA or Utah will not issue you one. Now, if you had a legal residence in Chicago, Wisconsin, or Washington DC they will continue to issue permits as along as you meet Utah's other requirements.

Correct. I just applied for my UT CWP although I live in AL. I also applied for my AL permit. You can do this via the mail also, just the UT permit.

The AL permit does have to be picked up in person, although not by the permittee (according to the person I talked to last week). This means you could apply while you're in VA, then pick it up the next time you're in AL.

Good luck.

FTG-05 · Apr 5, 2011

eye95 said:
Residents of AL (which the OP says he is despite living out of State on military orders) may not carry concealed using a non-resident license or permit from a reciprocating State. See the parts in bold.

Wait, are you saying that a UT permit won't allow me to carry concealed in AL? I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, talk slowly.

Thanks,

eye95 · Apr 5, 2011

FTG-05 said:
Wait, are you saying that a UT permit won't allow me to carry concealed in AL? I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, talk slowly.

Thanks,

If you are a resident of Alabama, No, a Utah non-resident permit will not allow you to carry concealed in Alabama. You must get an Alabama permit from the county in which you reside.

Email to my Alabama State Representatives

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