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Thread: Why you shouldn't talk to the Police

  1. #1
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    Why you shouldn't talk to the Police

    I posted this up in the VA forum as its filmed their.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    This was posted on a forum I mod and I found it very interesting. Not only for the content but that it was filmed in VA and has a VaBeach LEO (I moved here last year from VaBeach VA) telling all when it comes to talking to police and how ANYTHING you say can be turned around and used against you even if you’re innocent. The lawyer that starts it off makes reference to some VA cases (no one from here). The lawyer makes reference to laws and codes that can be used to backdoor you for a conviction.
    The video is 48 minutes but worth every second.
    At 8:30 into it lists the 10 top reasons not to talk and how doing so can be used against you. I really found the Miranda Rights part interesting in that they don't finish telling you the whole thing so that if you do talk it can be used against you. The "OFF THE RECORD" talk is bull as everything in relation to an active case is "ON THE RECORD".
    Thought y'all might find it interesting as well.

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    Thanks for the link

    I've watched this before and it is good stuff. Full of good info we Okies may be interested in knowing if we get some kind of OC.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    That is true info for ANY interaction. Not just a firearm related. I recently had an interaction and when I wouldn't answer many of the questions, the officer stated they were doing an investigation(having nothing to do with the original issue). Then at one point stated I was not being very cooperative.(Because I wouldn't answer overly probing and unrelated questions). They are always probing for things to charge you with, even if your the victim.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    It's been said before but probably bears repeating:

    When Officer Friendly starts asking any other questions besides "How 'bout them Bears?" or "Hot enough for ya?" he's looking for evidence of a crime, he's looking to put someone in jail, and he's looking at you.

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    After watching that I also sent it to my brother who is a lawyer and used to be an ADA and has also run for judge. He said he remembers lectures in law school talking about those fishing tactics. He's been a Pro Tem judge for years and said he has thrown cases out because some local LEO became famous for closing cases with BS guilt statments due to such fishing tactics.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer
    That is true info for ANY interaction.
    ...stated I was not being very cooperative.
    I forget which one of the ultra-high-count long-time posters here originally said this, but:
    Inform the Nice Officer that you intend to cooperate to the fullest extent required by law.
    Then shut up.
    You don't have to talk to police, even if you're in custody.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-02-2011 at 06:40 PM.

  7. #7
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    took my CCW class today and the instructor was a LEO. he actually breached this subject and I thought it funny that I watched this video last night. Of course, he had no problem giving limited info such as, "my name is ______ the other guy is dead. He was robbing me. I'll tell you all about it once we contact my attorney."

    I figure, if the LEO thinks that's the limit, the limit is probably more like "my name is _____. Here's my ID and CCW permit. I'd like my attorney present before I discuss anything."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    SNIP Then at one point [the officers] stated I was not being very cooperative.
    This partly in response to MKEgal's post, too.

    When police accuse you of being uncooperative, they're trying to make you look bad. Depending on the cop or situation, I might like to stuff that accusation back under its rock. For example,

    Cop: "Why won't you cooperate?"

    Me: "Oh, I'm sorry, officer. I'm a patriotic American. I will cooperate to the full extent required by our laws."

    Cop: "That's better. Why are you here?"

    Me: <silence>

    He'll get the idea.

  9. #9
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    How many people here have every been treated unfairly or charged with a crime related to firearms ownership or self defense in this state?

    I get so sick of the "bash the cops" threads. The officer's I know cheer legitimate civilian use of force, and are not slinking around trying to figure out a way to get a responsible citizen in trouble on some technicality.

    The "name, rank, serial number" advice that some people give, telling you to say NOTHING to the police, results in a confrontational atmosphere that is unnecessarily adversarial. This could get you a ride to jail when you might have gotten a ride home. And the "fake a heart attack" advice is stupid too.

    If you are involved in a use of force in self defense, I would encourage you to cooperate in the following way:

    1. Preserve evidence.

    2. Secure witnesses.

    3. When police arrive, identify yourself as the good guy, and the other party as the aggressor. To do this you will have to give the broad strokes.

    4. Indicate that you will cooperate fully after speaking with counsel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Scott View Post
    How many people here have every been treated unfairly or charged with a crime related to firearms ownership or self defense in this state?

    I get so sick of the "bash the cops" threads. The officer's I know cheer legitimate civilian use of force, and are not slinking around trying to figure out a way to get a responsible citizen in trouble on some technicality.

    The "name, rank, serial number" advice that some people give, telling you to say NOTHING to the police, results in a confrontational atmosphere that is unnecessarily adversarial. This could get you a ride to jail when you might have gotten a ride home. And the "fake a heart attack" advice is stupid too.

    If you are involved in a use of force in self defense, I would encourage you to cooperate in the following way:

    1. Preserve evidence.

    2. Secure witnesses.

    3. When police arrive, identify yourself as the good guy, and the other party as the aggressor. To do this you will have to give the broad strokes.

    4. Indicate that you will cooperate fully after speaking with counsel.
    Yes a lot of cops are good guys. But there are plenty of cops who are out to "get" people. And the sad thing is that you simply can't tell which type of cop you're dealing with until it's too late. So thanks to a few bad eggs it's better for people to prepare for the worst (kinda like how we carry a gun in order to be prepared for the worst).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Scott View Post
    SNIP I get so sick of the "bash the cops" threads.
    Forum,

    There are no "bash the cops" threads on OCDO! It is expressly a violation of the forum rules and is not tolerated by the mods nor owners. Even cop-bashing posts get moderated or deleted as soon as a mod or owner becomes aware.

    This new whiner is typical of a trend of late. When they can't find genuine cop-bashing, they change the definition of cop-bashing. Suddenly legitimate criticism of misbehaving individuals or groups of police is broad-brush generalization. And, in this case, seem to find it necessary to expand supposed posts into entire threads.

    Cop bashing is a serious accusation on this forum. People get banned for cop-bashing. But, certain posters seem more than willing to sling the accusation irresponsibly.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Scott View Post
    SNIP The "name, rank, serial number" advice that some people give, telling you to say NOTHING to the police, results in a confrontational atmosphere that is unnecessarily adversarial.
    Oh, give me a break.

    Please point to any two posters who advised being rude or hostile in tone and choice of words. Otherwise, politely invoking rights and giving minimum information is not confrontational. Not unless the cop feels his authority is being disrespected or isn't getting what he wants, in which case the confrontational element originates from the cop's side of the equation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    And the sad thing is that you simply can't tell which type of cop you're dealing with until it's too late.
    The bad ones might be relatively few in number, but they're also, by definition, the most aggressive. They're the ones constantly looking for any reason, any possible justification, to force a non-consensual encounter, and the least likely to use "discretion" (what we used to call "professional judgement") to overlook minor infractions.

    Because of this aggressive attitude, the "bad ones", whether they be 1/10, 1/100, or even 1/1000, tend to pop up disproportionately because they're making more contacts and pushing the envelope further. Even if they're just the "bad 1%", they tend to account for far more than 1% of the contacts.

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    Even if they're just the "bad 1%", they tend to account for far more than 1% of the contacts.
    good point KB

  15. #15
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    First off when I posted this it was never to instill any LEO bashing. If you feel it is then move on to another thread. If your here to LEO bash move onto another forum.

    When and if one is put into a situation inwhich a LEO is involved everyone reacts differently and as such some remain calm and other loose it and start spilling there guts. The video only illistrates how to react and what to say and not to say as in the heat of the moment what you ment to say might not be what you actually said. In those cases not saying anything at all might have been thing to do.

    I have been involved in several encounters with LEO's while OC'ing when I lived in VA and CC'ing here in OK. I have never really had any REAL issues. A couple mentioned they wasn't too keen on the OC but did feel it was a right. But in 99% of my encounters I was someplace when something happend that LEO's responded for some reason or another. When spoken to I simple gave my name and informed them I was armed. No statement was given as I wasn't a witness or knew of the situation.

    The video can be very usefull to those new to carrying a firearm and what can happen if that encounter with that one LEO does happen.

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