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Thread: There actually is one downside to opencarry

  1. #1
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    There actually is one downside to opencarry

    OPSEC

    I had not given a lot of consideration to carry issues until last week helping my buddy move. We moved his safe and arms at night. It had not really occurred to me until he mentioned it.

    His reasoning was some what simple, if no one sees them, no one knows he has them thereby reducing the possibilities of a neighbor with less than honest behavior, a misguided conversation by a neighbor with another etc.

    Despite the penalties associated with firearm theft, it remains a prime target mainly because of high value in a small package and since they are likely to be sold illegally just as they were obtained, they may have a higher than retail value.

    I think it is fairly minimal, this video'ed theft makes it almost perfectly clear these SOB's KNEW what they were after.

    http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-gun-thie...,1322335.story

    Just thinking outloud

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Appreciate your thinking out loud and sharing.

    In a similar bent, is not walking out of your home dressed for hunting "advertising" that you have firearms? The same for going to the range w/range bag and pistol cases, or decal/stickers on your vehicles. The very lifestyle could be said to make one a target.

    I used to be one of those people that would not put anything on my vehicles that indicated even slightly that there might be guns found there. There were none left unattended, but someone would have had to break in to find that out.

    Instead now I have an alarm system at home. Nothing will be found inside easily; then getting access to them will be considerably difficult. In short, I have hardened things up.

    The problem for the person with one gun is non-existent if it stays with them. Quality gun safes if bolted down solidly are good protection.

    There are risks in life - we should look to minimize them - but I will not abrogate my choices because some people are not honest. I will make their life style choices more difficult.

    BTW - stolen guns do NOT bring higher than retail figures - generally considerably lower.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-01-2011 at 09:48 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
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    I'm unclear on how they made entry. Was the door unlocked or did they make forced entry?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There are risks in life - we should look to minimize them - but I will not abrogate my choices because some people are not honest. I will make their life style choices more difficult.

    BTW - stolen guns do NOT bring higher than retail figures - generally considerably lower.
    Yes, there certainly are risk. I do not consider it a HIGH risk but I could not edit my mistake in the title, I really do not consider it "huge" I am not sure what drove that in the original writing, my mind was wandering even as I typed.

    --Moderator Comment--
    Happy to oblige - better?


    As far as the resale goes, may I offer that I would tend to say that depends upon what hood you are in. I should state I can not confirm the actual status of firearms I have been told about in person but when someone offers a used glock 27 for 700 bucks, I got the feeling it might have a less than stellar history.

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    Instead of investing in a camera system, a quality gun safe would have been a wonderful purchase. I only own one firearm. And it stays on me everywhere I go. When I buy my AR-15 next month, I will be buying a safe as well. I don't have the space or money for a quality safe just yet, but even the cheaper safes are better than nothing.

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    Thank you Mr. MOD.

    I do have safes Steven and they will not have an easy time getting at the firearms by any means, that does not mean they will not try kind of thing.

    My point was simply that in the great cc vs oc debate that happens, there simply is the down side of folks learning you have guns.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Big Boy's Avatar
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    I can appreciate your feelings on this. I currently am living short term in a less than reputable neighborhood, In an apartment building with some shady characters.

    I NEVER leave without a gun on me, concealed or not. However, with where I live, even if I'm planning to OC that day, I CC until I'm in my car and out of the neighborhood. All of our parking spots are numbered, it's very easy to tell when people are home and when they are not. I don't want people in my complex knowing I'm a gun owner and coming to investigate how many more I may have.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Not wanting people to know I have guns, esp. when they also know my name (& can therefore look up my address & maybe stop by to try to take them) was one reason I didn't want to give my full name to a reporter at an OC protest last year. *

    (And one reason I generally tried to avoid media during the suit for my first 4A violation by police... the second one is in the "waiting for them to answer my FOIA request" stage.)

    Her reply? "Well, if anyone tries something you can shoot them, right?"
    I'd prefer to avoid a problem in the first place, thankewvurramuch.
    Besides, it's far too common for a citizen to defend herself/himself then be subjected to charges at the hands of police & prosecutors... even when acting in self-defense in the home.

    Heck, look at Nathaniel Goree of Detroit, MI! He was acquitted by a jury (for both attempted murder & attempted manslaughter), yet the judge sent him to prison for 2 years for "posessing a firearm while attempting to commit a felony" because he shot a man who was drawing a knife on his wife on their front porch. (Check the MI forum for a thread, & there's a "Free Nathanial Goree" page on FB.)

    * In browsing something else, I stumbled onto this PDF written about a self-defense case in AZ.
    Near the end (bottom of pg. 41) it says:
    [homeowner] keeps surveillance cameras turned on. He installed the cameras after his home was burgled when he was compelled in court to identify guns he owned.
    http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...%20Booklet.pdf
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-02-2011 at 05:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    I do have safes Steven and they will not have an easy time getting at the firearms by any means, that does not mean they will not try kind of thing
    I understand what you mean. I wasn't attempting to take a shot at you. My comment was directed towards the man in the video.
    He had a full surveillance system but took no further effort to prevent his valuables from being stolen. To me, camera's are sort of like the police. They are there to help investigate after a crime has been committed. This in no way means you shouldn't take an attempt to protect yourself from the crime being committed.

    (Please don't take this as cop bashing. I hope to be a LEO in the near future.)

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    I suppose now is as good a time as any to reference my own sheeple mentality on security.

    I have often spent the evening after a day at the range cleaning my firearms on my back porch. Life is not the same now but those whom own birds as pets understand, you really do not want to perfume up the house with Hoppee 9 if you want your birdy on the perch in a couple of hours. Also have spent more than one sorting brass and such as well, I just like being outside more than I do inside.

    I do not remove or conceal before getting out of the car, I have on several occasions openly carried while walking the ankle biters etc. I do at times tend to be quite removed from others and honestly have no idea if anyone has taken note or not, I frankly never paid attention. A neighbor across the street has at least 2 long guns and hunting gear as someone said earlier blaze orange makes that an easy mark.

    I am not sure how big of a business robbing houses actually is these days. It would seem a huge risk for a minimal return, shoplifting or breaking into cars seems a less likely risk for about the same reward. I mean really, the kids talked us into one of those fancy vizio dvd bluray players with a lot of freakin buttons on the remote that gather dust while play and enter get pushed a lot. Cost about 2 franklins new, it is little over a year old now, likely some new tech crap out that makes it obsolete, whats it worth 50 bucks? How about my 5-7 year old 100 watt reciever perhaps 75 on craigslist? Shoot they will likely get more out of the air conditioner on the side of the house for scrap!

    I guess my point is, it likely does not pay too well to be a burglar anymore unless you do get a lead on hot ticket items, OC somewhat opens a crack for that information to be exposed. Those opens both sides of pandora's box though, because if I was a burglar and I knew you carried and had guns, I would have to do a lot of research on ya before I could be sure you were not home aka get blasted walking in the door.

    Seems to me there is merit on both sides that are pretty much a wash. If you live in a community where there may be a higher risk one of your actual neighbors themselves might be prone to theft, discretion is wise as they may have enough time to observe your patterns and work times to eliminate part of it and do a smash an grab.

    BTW no affront at all Steven and no concern over cop bashing here. Good luck with it if life takes you on down that path, it is a tough job with lots of real life test, no doubt about it.

  11. #11
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    I'm with ya on OPSEC or as someone else reminded me...PERSEC.

    I made the mistake of OC'ing today in a holster I normally don't use out in public unless it's under a jacket. It made me very wary about people behind me and I certainly wasn't disarming. I tend to prefer a slightly higher security level holster than what I had on today when I OC.

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    I kind of feel your pain on this. I've recently bought a house, and from what some of the neighbors have said a house about 200 yards away is RUMORED to have meth trafficking going on. I have noticed quite a bit of vehicular traffic going to and from there from time to time, and on a few return trips from the range vehicles going to and from there have eyed me unloading my vehicle. On that same note, I have chosen to always have my weapon visible on my hip when leaving my house just to let anyone know that if I happen to come home when they are in here, they may have a thing or two to worry about. It helps that I have friendly neighbors on both sides of me that are armed as well and we all look out for each other, but you still have that little voice in the back of your head wondering "what if?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuck114 View Post
    I kind of feel your pain on this. I've recently bought a house, and from what some of the neighbors have said a house about 200 yards away is RUMORED to have meth trafficking going on. I have noticed quite a bit of vehicular traffic going to and from there from time to time, and on a few return trips from the range vehicles going to and from there have eyed me unloading my vehicle. On that same note, I have chosen to always have my weapon visible on my hip when leaving my house just to let anyone know that if I happen to come home when they are in here, they may have a thing or two to worry about. It helps that I have friendly neighbors on both sides of me that are armed as well and we all look out for each other, but you still have that little voice in the back of your head wondering "what if?"
    Have you notified the authorities... they can check it out before it blows up!!!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Yes, I have brought it to their attention, we shall see what happens from here.

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