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Thread: Cop Kicked Out

  1. #1
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    Cop Kicked Out

    How do they like it? Im very pro cop, but part of me truly loved this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=112Vp...&feature=feedf

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I approve of this message.

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    Maybe this will help close the gap between us, and the police.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Maybe this will help close the gap between us, and the police.
    As long as there are "power hungry" youngins (I only say this because its rare I actually see any police over 30 anymore) lookin to be "superior" to the common man, there will always be a gap.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    One thing most people do not understand,LE's in MI have to follow state firearm laws too.They need a CPL in order to OC in their vehicle and have to have permission to carry on private property.If the JOE or the Palace etc. etc. did not want them to be armed,they would have to disarm before going on to the property,just as we have to.We have the same exemptions as LEO's according to the law.It's sad that too many LEO's think they are above us according to the law. 98% of LEO's I have had to deal with have been understanding of this fact,but recent encounters with the 2% have been alarming, dangerous and unconstitutionaly disgusting!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    One thing most people do not understand,LE's in MI have to follow state firearm laws too.They need a CPL in order to OC in their vehicle and have to have permission to carry on private property.If the JOE or the Palace etc. etc. did not want them to be armed,they would have to disarm before going on to the property,just as we have to.We have the same exemptions as LEO's according to the law.It's sad that too many LEO's think they are above us according to the law. 98% of LEO's I have had to deal with have been understanding of this fact,but recent encounters with the 2% have been alarming, dangerous and unconstitutionaly disgusting!
    "They need a CPL in order to OC in their vehicle"???

    Where did you see this requirement?

    Section 12a of the CPL Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:

    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    "They need a CPL in order to OC in their vehicle"???

    Where did you see this requirement?

    Section 12a of the CPL Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:

    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]
    I have often wondered this, do the LEO's receive a free CPL (the actual card) or do they not need a CPL since they are LEO's ? ? ?
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    LEOs have certain exemptions, like the one cited above, but to exercise their rights as we do in other areas, they have to apply for, and I assume, have to pay for a CPL too.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Police officers do not have to have CPLs. Under the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act and Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act Improvements Act they can carry a gun in all 50 states and do not need a permit.

    "A qualified law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by his agency.

    A retired law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by the agency from which he has separated and a document that certifies that he has met, within the most recent twelve month period, the active duty law enforcement standards for qualification for a firearm of the same type as the one they intend to carry. See above for more information on the standards a qualified retired officer must meet and what entities can issue this certification document."

    http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    "They need a CPL in order to OC in their vehicle"???

    Where did you see this requirement?

    Section 12a of the CPL Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:

    (a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]
    I get that from MCL 750.234d (2)(b) and 750.237a (5)(b). Thats my understanding of CPL holders and Peace Officers exemptions.All LEO's I have known have CPL's.They've shown the exemption box on their CPL to have been checked.The exemption box on mine is not checked,yet I have the same exemptions they do in the above noted MCL's.
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 04-02-2011 at 05:49 PM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I get that from MCL 750.234d (2)(b) and 750.237a (5)(b). Thats my understanding of CPL holders and Peace Officers exemptions.All LEO's I have known have CPL's.They've shown the exemption box on their CPL to have been checked.The exemption box on mine is not checked,yet I have the same exemptions they do in the above noted MCL's.
    My step dad is a cop and he does not have a CPL because he doesn't need one to carry anywhere (with a couple exceptions)in the U.S. also those Michgian exemptions for police police in the PFZ does not matter because of the law that was passed in my above comment. He told me the reason the officers he knows get them is so they do not need to get a PP every time they buy a pistol.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  13. #13
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    There is a similar story within the last few months of a deli near an airport refusing to serve TSA agents.

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    Now that I would understand.

    Would they let them come in if they were naked?

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    Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act

    LEOSA applies to all 50 states and territories and political subdivisions of the U.S. LEOSA applies to all non NFA firearms (yes, LEOSA folks can carry concealed long arms on their person or in a vehicle in Michigan or anywhere else). LEOSA certified people do not have to notify a LEO that they are carrying concealed because federal law trumps state law. LEOSA does NOT exempt state or local law if the state prohibits carrying in a government building, park, or private property. Outside of those restrictions, LEOSA applies.

    Michigan LEO's can carry on their creds per state law; they are exempt from Pistol Free Zones.... except for the Detroit Casinos.

    Michigan LEO's can get a CPL if they want, but they can not legally check the exempt box unless they are retired, if you read the law, there is no exemption for Pistol Free Zones for active duty LEO's who have a CPL, but it doesn't matter since they are exempt with their credentials.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Cafe owner explains why he booted a cop

    None of these people are particularly well-practiced, and the final speaker completely conflates the two related but distinct concepts which comprise justice, namely punishment and restitution. Also, they ignore deterrence.

    I would be inclined to do the same thing with a business of mine, using some similar arguments, but backing my claims of a "safe space" up with armed deterrence by myself and my employees.
    Last edited by marshaul; 04-03-2011 at 05:01 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    There is a similar story within the last few months of a deli near an airport refusing to serve TSA agents.
    i saw that, the deli remains un-named. i wish we knew if it were true or not. i would write them a thank you note expressing my full support. (especially after a not so nice confrontation i had with the TSA in cleveland)
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i saw that, the deli remains un-named. i wish we knew if it were true or not. i would write them a thank you note expressing my full support. (especially after a not so nice confrontation i had with the TSA in cleveland)
    You know, there are websites out there where you can write up the abuse and humiliation you had to endure. The bigger the pile, the greater the weight.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Police officers do not have to have CPLs. Under the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act and Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act Improvements Act they can carry a gun in all 50 states and do not need a permit.

    "A qualified law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by his agency.

    A retired law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by the agency from which he has separated and a document that certifies that he has met, within the most recent twelve month period, the active duty law enforcement standards for qualification for a firearm of the same type as the one they intend to carry. See above for more information on the standards a qualified retired officer must meet and what entities can issue this certification document."

    http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf
    They can also carry in D.C., The US Virgin Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico, N.Marianas, and American Samoa.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 04-03-2011 at 05:33 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i saw that, the deli remains un-named. i wish we knew if it were true or not. i would write them a thank you note expressing my full support. (especially after a not so nice confrontation i had with the TSA in cleveland)
    The Red and Black Cafe at 400 S.E. 12th Avenue, Portland, Oregon. The co-owner's name was John Langley.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    What else would you expect from the "Left" Coast?
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You know, there are websites out there where you can write up the abuse and humiliation you had to endure. The bigger the pile, the greater the weight.
    yes, i'm all over it, i am a big advocate for the abolition of the TSA. and my incident was in august of 2010 so i had no warning, it hadn't hit the media yet that people were being groped. i would have taken the option they offered of turning around and walking out of "their" checkpoint, but i was on my honeymoon...
    when i stood up for myself and politely got in the agent and supervisors faces, my wife was worried for a minute we wouldn't be flying at all. she supports me though and knows that we will not fly again until the TSA is abolished. i will not subject myself, my beautiful wife and daughter to such indignities.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 04-03-2011 at 09:49 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    The Red and Black Cafe at 400 S.E. 12th Avenue, Portland, Oregon. The co-owner's name was John Langley.
    sorry, i was talking about this:
    http://consumerist.com/2011/02/seatt...sa-agents.html
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    i wish that i had a cafe, so i could kick out every cop that is OCing. except i would like to do it with a gun on my own hip.

    is it legal to allow some people to OC and not others? as a private property owner, do you legally have to have the same rules for everyone or can you randomly tell people they cannot carry in your business? would this open you up to lawsuits for discrimination?

  25. #25
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    That story seems more fiction than fact, from the attempts to verify it I tried. Found this, which calls it into serious question:

    http://www.elliott.org/blog/wheres-t...serve-the-tsa/

    Also, searching on the name of the person reported there and other relevant search terms pulls up nothing giving credibility.

    Do you have any info verifying this story?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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