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Thread: Bill allowing concealed guns in parks, restaurants sparks debate

  1. #1
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    Bill allowing concealed guns in parks, restaurants sparks debate

    http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/story/9376245/

    "As long as they had it concealed and it wasn't loaded."

    WHA?!??

  2. #2
    mattwestm
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    "It's a family place. There's no need for it,"

    If I had a family, I'd surely want to be able to protect them. What do concealed guns have to do with offending "families?"

  3. #3
    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    "It's a family place. There's no need for it,"

    If I had a family, I'd surely want to be able to protect them. What do concealed guns have to do with offending "families?"
    Probably ******* (urinating) in the wind, but I am writing the editor and the reporter imploring them to be impartial and lay out facts, not hyperbole. They are trying to scare and sway readers into action against this law.
    Last edited by Northerner; 04-03-2011 at 11:15 AM.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    "It's a family place. There's no need for it,"

    If I had a family, I'd surely want to be able to protect them. What do concealed guns have to do with offending "families?"
    Some people it does offend them. Its a trend that is growing in size sadly. People that don't like something says it "offends" them. I heard a lady in a restaurant actually ask the waiter to move her and her family because 4 officers sat down at the table next to them and she said the "guns" they were carrying scared her and they needed to be left in their patrol cars.

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    Guns in restaurants and in parks are an everyday, take it for granted thing here in Michigan. Scaring people is the exception, not the rule. Truthfully, It wouldnt even cross my mind that I was carrying into a McD's or any other restaurant,(or park). If it did scare someone, frankly, I wouldn't care, they have the same rights as we do, if they are afraid of my gun, they can go buy their own.

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    Regular Member bob789000's Avatar
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    The way I see it; there are already guns being brought into parks, bars, schools and any other place you can think of. Don't ever think that your in a safe zone. Unless there is a metal detector leading into the place and everyone in the building is required to walk through it, the possibility is still there. Criminals do not care about the law and anywhere we aren't allowed to carry is a stomping ground for criminals. Oh and it doesn't really matter if their aloud to have them loaded or unloaded. If their weapon is unloaded, it will not be the next time around, especially if they get your money. At least one life is safe, THE BG!!! I steer clear of places that I have to unarm myself. I do conceal carry, but since reading this site I'm leaning more and more toward OC.
    Last edited by bob789000; 04-03-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    To anyone who says lawful concealed carry in a restaurant is a bad idea, I have just three words:

    Suzanna Hupp's Parents...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis


    And also, remind them that NC is one of only TWO states east of the Mississippi (and only one of 8 nationwide!) that does not allow CC permit holders to carry in such establishments.

    http://www.opencarry.org/restaurant.html

    Even the rabidly anti-gun enclaves of NY, MD, and NJ allow it, and in ALL the states in our region that allow it, the ONLY people who seem to cause problems from drinking while carrying are off-duty cops, NOT citizens with permits...

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,4496793.story

    http://investigativevoice.com/index....ject&Itemid=44

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/0...pon-on-driver/
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-04-2011 at 01:02 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    We cant forget about the shooting in Fayetteville in 1993 at Luigi's Italian Restaurant...

    http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2010/01/09/965827

    I personally know the family that owns the restaurant... I was working @ Bennigan's right down the street the night it happened...
    It took a off-duty cop working as a guard at Kroger's to stop this guy... A round went through the window at Luigi's and hit a window at Kroger's.. The guard ran across the street and shot the guy through the widow taking him down... He survived and last I knew still has the bullet in his jaw...
    This is a small restaurant...He could have gone to a more populated one and killed/wounded more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    We cant forget about the shooting in Fayetteville in 1993 at Luigi's Italian Restaurant...

    http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2010/01/09/965827

    I personally know the family that owns the restaurant... I was working @ Bennigan's right down the street the night it happened...
    It took a off-duty cop working as a guard at Kroger's to stop this guy... A round went through the window at Luigi's and hit a window at Kroger's.. The guard ran across the street and shot the guy through the widow taking him down... He survived and last I knew still has the bullet in his jaw...
    This is a small restaurant...He could have gone to a more populated one and killed/wounded more...

    I left Luigi's 2 hours before that happened. My son was working at Bennigan's around that time frame. Went by Doc.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    Probably ******* (urinating) in the wind, but I am writing the editor and the reporter imploring them to be impartial and lay out facts, not hyperbole. They are trying to scare and sway readers into action against this law.
    My letter to the reporter and editor on the latest WRAL story on HB 111. http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/story/9376245/

    "I am disappointed in WRALs coverage both in video and on the web with regards to House Bill 111 "Handgun Permit Valid in Parks & Restaurants.” This recent article, as well as, past articles is not providing an equal and factual portrayal of the story. I believe WRAL is intentionally trying to sway readers and viewers to think this Bill is going to be the beginning of the end for patrons of restaurants that serve food and alcohol.

    For a North Carolinian to obtain a Concealed Handgun Permits (CHP) in NC, he or she must be 21 years or older, no felonies nor Domestic Violence arrests, pass a background check within the State of NC, as well as, background checks with BATF/FBI, provide valid drivers license and social security card, provide proof of honorable service in the Military if relevant, mental health checks with the State’s 5 mental health institutions, pay for both an 8 hour concealed handgun class ($75-$125), and pay the County a permit fee ($80-$90). Essentially a concealed handgun permit is not just handed out to anybody. The State ensures only Law abiding citizens are permitted to carry concealed. The facts around whom and what a CHP holder goes through must be articulated in any article WRAL posts when discussing handgun permits.

    In this recent article, WRAL states “…laws that would loosen gun restrictions.” In fact, this Bill does not “loosen laws” it expands the existing law, which is one of three responsibilities of NC Legislators. The other two responsibilities; the introduction of new bills and/or striking down existing laws that are archaic or no longer good for NC, representing their constituents.

    WRAL further states, “The Bill forbids anyone from consuming alcohol if they have a concealed, permitted weapon in a restaurant.” This statement is very misleading, since this is already the Law in NC. By WRAL stating this, it gives the impression that prior to this Bill, those that carry conceal were able to consume alcohol. For sixteen years, permit-holders have proven themselves sane, sober and law-abiding; according to the State Bureau of Investigation, of 336,743 concealed handgun permits approved, only 1,007 (0.29% or less than 1/3 of a single percent) have been revoked – most for reasons unrelated to handguns. Gun-related crimes by permit-holders are all but unheard of in NC. WRAL can certainly confirm this both with recent handgun related crimes, as well as, with the SBI. How about citing statistics of handgun crimes with CHP holders in the other 30+ States? You won’t find any, but shouldn’t WRAL state this as another counter point?

    WRAL needs to show both side of the story. They need to understand why this Bill was proposed and why permitted handgun owners are so passionate about it. On the surface it’s about Constitutional rights for which the Federal and State Supreme Courts have both upheld, but deep down it’s about law abiding citizens wanting to protect themselves and their families. Everyday, WRAL reports crimes being committed, assaults, car-jackings, home invasion, burglaries, etc. The current gun laws mean nothing to those who want to commit crimes with a firearm. Current firearms laws do nothing to stop criminals from obtaining stolen weapons and using them. How long before criminals and the mentally unstable person(s) target restaurant patrons. Have you ever heard Nicole Renee Goeser’s story (April 2, 2009)? Perhaps you have heard of Luby Texas (October 16, 1991)? This is what the law abiding citizens are afraid of happening in NC. What most North Carolinians don’t know is that, everyday law abiding citizens are already carrying concealed in restaurants that do not serve alcohol. They could be sitting next to some one legally carrying concealed and never know it. North Carolina even allows law abiding citizens to carry their handgun openly, for all to see, without any permit what so ever. Have there been any crimes or shootings while some ne was lawfully carrying concealed or openly carrying.

    Perhaps, as the reporter or editor you have your opinions and could care less how this and other handgun law articles come across. I was brought up to believe the media was supposed to be impartial. Some media still understand this responsibility and yet others do not. The latter type of media style, essential, shapes public opinion for good or bad. I am not looking for a response from WRAL, as I am sure the editor and reporter will defend their story. All I ask is that WRAL think about the facts and not just play off the emotions or its readers. I am disappointed in WRALs coverage both in video and on the web with regards to House Bill 111 "Handgun Permit Valid in Parks & Restaurants.” This recent article, as well as, past articles is not providing an equal and factual portrayal of the story. I believe WRAL is intentionally trying to sway readers and viewers to think this Bill is going to be the beginning of the end for patrons of restaurants that serve food and alcohol. "


    The reporter's response:

    "Thank you for your note and for your feedback. We have updated our copy to include the fact the law as written does not allow permit allows to consume alcohol. Please know that WRAL does not choose sides on any story and we do not have an agenda. WRAL management is aware of your concerns. Thank you again for your note."

    Beau
    Last edited by Northerner; 04-04-2011 at 10:00 AM.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    comment from WRAL story


    Seriously, though, I do have an honest question. I know concealed carry is currently illegal in some areas, but what about open carry?

    I ask because, with all due respect, if you're going to be arguing the "criminal deterrence" theory, wouldn't an OPENLY CARRYING individual be more of a deterrence? I mean, to use an analogy:

    Having a sign that says "beware of dog" may be a deterrent--but actually HAVING a dog in plain view is even more so. dlk13ster
    April 4, 2011 10:08 a.m


    i like the analogy.

    i have noticed that the headlines of the stories from WRAL seem to be bias, but that could just be tease value

    just to play devils adjudicate; when these stories come up, there are some good comments countering the negative. but i guess that would depend on if anyone reads the comments
    Last edited by papa bear; 04-04-2011 at 10:32 AM. Reason: post thought

  12. #12
    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i have noticed that the headlines of the stories from WRAL seem to be bias, but that could just be tease value
    This seems to be the norm for a lot of the media outlet now days. You can't grab someone's attention with a plain jane title for a story. Thats why we are seeing more and more "reality" tv shows. Plain jane tv shows don't bring in ratings.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Coniferous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    My letter to the reporter and editor on the latest WRAL story on HB 111. http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/story/9376245/

    "I am disappointed in WRALs coverage both in video and on the web with regards to House Bill 111 "Handgun Permit Valid in Parks & Restaurants.” This recent article, as well as, past articles is not providing an equal and factual portrayal of the story. I believe WRAL is intentionally trying to sway readers and viewers to think this Bill is going to be the beginning of the end for patrons of restaurants that serve food and alcohol.

    For a North Carolinian to obtain a Concealed Handgun Permits (CHP) in NC, he or she must be 21 years or older, no felonies nor Domestic Violence arrests, pass a background check within the State of NC, as well as, background checks with BATF/FBI, provide valid drivers license and social security card, provide proof of honorable service in the Military if relevant, mental health checks with the State’s 5 mental health institutions, pay for both an 8 hour concealed handgun class ($75-$125), and pay the County a permit fee ($80-$90). Essentially a concealed handgun permit is not just handed out to anybody. The State ensures only Law abiding citizens are permitted to carry concealed. The facts around whom and what a CHP holder goes through must be articulated in any article WRAL posts when discussing handgun permits.

    In this recent article, WRAL states “…laws that would loosen gun restrictions.” In fact, this Bill does not “loosen laws” it expands the existing law, which is one of three responsibilities of NC Legislators. The other two responsibilities; the introduction of new bills and/or striking down existing laws that are archaic or no longer good for NC, representing their constituents.

    WRAL further states, “The Bill forbids anyone from consuming alcohol if they have a concealed, permitted weapon in a restaurant.” This statement is very misleading, since this is already the Law in NC. By WRAL stating this, it gives the impression that prior to this Bill, those that carry conceal were able to consume alcohol. For sixteen years, permit-holders have proven themselves sane, sober and law-abiding; according to the State Bureau of Investigation, of 336,743 concealed handgun permits approved, only 1,007 (0.29% or less than 1/3 of a single percent) have been revoked – most for reasons unrelated to handguns. Gun-related crimes by permit-holders are all but unheard of in NC. WRAL can certainly confirm this both with recent handgun related crimes, as well as, with the SBI. How about citing statistics of handgun crimes with CHP holders in the other 30+ States? You won’t find any, but shouldn’t WRAL state this as another counter point?

    WRAL needs to show both side of the story. They need to understand why this Bill was proposed and why permitted handgun owners are so passionate about it. On the surface it’s about Constitutional rights for which the Federal and State Supreme Courts have both upheld, but deep down it’s about law abiding citizens wanting to protect themselves and their families. Everyday, WRAL reports crimes being committed, assaults, car-jackings, home invasion, burglaries, etc. The current gun laws mean nothing to those who want to commit crimes with a firearm. Current firearms laws do nothing to stop criminals from obtaining stolen weapons and using them. How long before criminals and the mentally unstable person(s) target restaurant patrons. Have you ever heard Nicole Renee Goeser’s story (April 2, 2009)? Perhaps you have heard of Luby Texas (October 16, 1991)? This is what the law abiding citizens are afraid of happening in NC. What most North Carolinians don’t know is that, everyday law abiding citizens are already carrying concealed in restaurants that do not serve alcohol. They could be sitting next to some one legally carrying concealed and never know it. North Carolina even allows law abiding citizens to carry their handgun openly, for all to see, without any permit what so ever. Have there been any crimes or shootings while some ne was lawfully carrying concealed or openly carrying.

    Perhaps, as the reporter or editor you have your opinions and could care less how this and other handgun law articles come across. I was brought up to believe the media was supposed to be impartial. Some media still understand this responsibility and yet others do not. The latter type of media style, essential, shapes public opinion for good or bad. I am not looking for a response from WRAL, as I am sure the editor and reporter will defend their story. All I ask is that WRAL think about the facts and not just play off the emotions or its readers. I am disappointed in WRALs coverage both in video and on the web with regards to House Bill 111 "Handgun Permit Valid in Parks & Restaurants.” This recent article, as well as, past articles is not providing an equal and factual portrayal of the story. I believe WRAL is intentionally trying to sway readers and viewers to think this Bill is going to be the beginning of the end for patrons of restaurants that serve food and alcohol. "


    The reporter's response:

    "Thank you for your note and for your feedback. We have updated our copy to include the fact the law as written does not allow permit allows to consume alcohol. Please know that WRAL does not choose sides on any story and we do not have an agenda. WRAL management is aware of your concerns. Thank you again for your note."

    Beau
    Great response to them...

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