Outdoorsman1
Regular Member
Ok to be honest I was having 2nd thoughts about posting this because I know what some reactions are going to be. But then I realized that the most important “reaction” to my experience is mine. And my reaction was positive so here is the post and I will also offer my reasoning for certain “concessions” I made that I am sure some here will strongly disagree with… Please read in its entirety before you “let me have it”….
I was on my way to the local grocery store and stopped off at Walgreen’s to pick up a few things (about a block away from the grocery store). I opened carried into Walgreen’s (for the first time in that store). I had no problem at all OC’ing there and left. On my way to the grocery store I noticed a County Sheriff had a black pick up “pulled over” with the squad cars lights flashing. I wonderd what the guy in the truck did to get pulled over. I drove past them and continued to the grocery store. I checked my rear view mirror and noticed that the squad had pulled in right behind me and followed me into the store parking lot without lights flashing. As it was only 1 block I did not fasten my seat belt so I figured I was going to get a ticket for that. I pulled into a parking space and the squad stopped directly behind me. I got out of my car and based on what learned here I “asked him” the question… “How can I help you”… He asked me if I had a loaded gun in my car...!!! Again remembering stuff I read here, I remained totally calm and answered with another question… “No sir I do not, why do you ask”.
He then said that the guy in the black truck pulled him over and reported that I had a loaded gun in my car…??? To which I replied again… “No I do not”. He then asked if I had a gun in my car and I replied “Yes I do, but it is legal as it is unloaded and in a case as required by WI. State law… (reason for admitting I had a gun)… (I figured that if he already had a report that I had a “loaded” gun in my car that was cause for a search with or without my permission.) I proceeded to inform him that I was an open carrier and was well versed on the laws regarding OC and vehicle transport. At that time I also told him that I had just come from OC’ing in Walgreen’s without any issues at all and someone (the guy in the black truck) must have seen me in the parking lot and just assumed I got into my car with the loaded weapon still holstered on my hip. At that time I pointed to my empty holster on my hip. He then got out of his squad and asked me if he could check my weapon. I replied that as I have nothing to hide it would be ok with me… reason….from the very beginning he was polite and not at all confrontational and I also I knew I was 100% legal with nothing to hide). I stepped back and he proceeded to open the case, remove the weapon and check if it had a magazine in it. He said ok... and I suggested to him the he rack the slide to confirm I did not have a round in the chamber which he did. He then put the pistol back into the case. I then informed him that I intended to OC into the grocery store as I had already done so many times with the owner’s permission. He replied that he had no problem with that and no problem with OC’ing; it was just that he had to check out the report of a loaded weapon in a vehicle. I could tell that after he understood the situation he became a bit more relaxed and even friendlier.
He then asked me for my driver’s license for his report. I told him (1st time) that I wanted it written in his report that I was NOT doing anything illegal and was in complete compliance with the law. He said that he had no problem including that in his report as “It was obvious to him that I was not being disorderly”. I gave him my driver’s license ...Reason….He also was not in anyway confrontational or being a jerk so I figured why at that point should I start being being “non-cooperative”. He took my license and walked back to his squad to run it through the computer. He was literally parked about 5 feet away and had his window rolled down so in full view I proceeded to pick up my weapon from the car and put the Mag. in and chambered a round. I then took the mag out and replaced the round with the extra I keep available as I prefer to carry “Fully Loaded” (12+1). I holstered the weapon and walked up to his window. He mentioned that my license had a Racine WI address and that I had mentioned earlier that I was from Silver Lake. I told him I recently moved and did not get my license changed yet. He gave me back my license and continued writing his report. I told him again (2nd time) that I wanted it clearly stated that I was doing nothing illegal, he again said no problem and I watched him write exactly that. He offered for me to read the entry which I declined as I had witnessed him writing exactly what I requested. He thanked me for my cooperation and I thanked him for his understanding of the law and the situation. He mentioned that he was going to follow up with the person that made the complaint. I mentioned for a third time that I would appreciate him explaining OC to the person and let him no that no law was broken… he again said no problem and that he would do that to avoid another complaint from the same person if he ever saw another open carrier. I offered him my hand and he took it and we shook hands. He told me to have a nice day and I headed towards the store with my pistol holstered on my hip. He drove away…
There’s more….
In the commotion I forgot my cell phone in my car so I went back outside to get it…and there was the LEO writing down my license plate number. I again asked him “Can I help you”... He said that he was just getting my vehicle information for his report... I said ok no problem and confirmed the year it was made…He then asked me where I purchased my gun so I told him that I had bought it form a private party… reason… I figured that we had already parted company when I walked into the store and he drove away so it was more like just making conversation. He then asked me that because I purchased from a private party if he could run the gun to confirm that it was not stolen (by the seller) or ever used in a crime (?)… (I have always wondered about private party gun deals as to how do you know you are not buying a stolen weapon from a complete stranger) so I ok,d him running the gun… reason…for my own satisfaction and peace of mind that I did not buy a stolen weapon. He then asked for the serial number of the weapon... I removed it from the holster and started to read him the number… He stopped me and said he would have to read it for himself... (Obviously to insure I did not give him a false number)… I replied that under any other circumstance I would never surrender my weapon to anyone He reassured me that he was not going to keep the gun and that he had already “let” me walk away knowing that it was loaded on my hip. For reasons already listed above (not his reassurance) I handed him my weapon. Before I handed it to him I informed him that it was fully loaded with a round in the chamber. He said that he was experienced in handling loaded weapons and reached through the window and took the gun. We were both obviously careful not to sweep each other with the barrel. He wrote down the serial number and handed it back to me and I put in back in the holster. At that point he was entering the number and the weather was a little nasty, raining, sleeting and gusty winds. He told me if I wanted I could wait in my car to which I replied that “No, I couldn’t as I had a loaded pistol in my holster and sitting in my car would be illegal”, and joked that I sure as hell was not going to sit in the back of his car either… he chuckled. I will never know if this was a bait to get me to break the law, but buy his actions and facial expression when I replied, he genuinely seem to have a ….oh yea … that’s right…Duh…moment. I the told him that in all the commotion, I left my cell phone in the car and could I lean into the car to grab it off the seat. He replied sure no problem, so I did just that without an issue. The gun check came back ok (I was relived) and again I joked with him about if I got up on his front brush guard if he would give me a ride to the front doors of the store…He laughingly replied “I don’t think so” We then parted company for the last time.
OK..I know many here will find many faults (in their opinion) of my actions and willingness to share so nuch info, but in my mind it was a positive 1st LEO encounter because…
I did not get arrested…
I remained calm...
I initiated the conversation with a question…
I replied to his response with another question…
I based my attitude towards the LEO on his initial attitude towards me… non confrontational... he never drue his weapon. If he started with a confrontational attitude, I am positive I would have not been willing to share ANY info.
Early in the encounter I informed the LEO that even after being stopped for suspicion of having a loaded gun in my car I fully intended to exercise my legal and constitutional right to open carry in the grocery store and proceeded to load and holster my weapon in full view of the LEO. (by that time he was relaxed and confident that I was in fact an OC’er who knew his rights and the law, and did not have a loaded weapon in the car.)
I developed an almost friendly atmosphere with the LEO and was actually able to joke around with him during the end of our contact…
I pretty much insisted that he include in his report that I did absolutely nothing illegal (which he did).
I am confident that in future LEO encounters his report will speak in my favor…
I asked and he would agree to inform the person that made the complaint about OC and that it was in fact legal. Which he replied yes with a believable reason why he would…
I was able to find out that I do not own a stolen weapon.
I was wearing my new OC hat...
I will plead guilty to one mistake…. As I was already out of my car, and had realized the LEO had a non confrontational attitude, it never crossed my mind to turn on my video camera / voice recorder which I carry in a nylon case on my gun belt… I am real sure that I will not make that mistake in the future.
Finally, I totally based my attitude towards the LEO on his attitude towards me, and also that I am a very strong believer in “you reap what you sow” and as I was totally legal and had absolutely nothing to hide handling the situation they way I did was acceptable with the desired results achieved.
Outdoorsman1
I was on my way to the local grocery store and stopped off at Walgreen’s to pick up a few things (about a block away from the grocery store). I opened carried into Walgreen’s (for the first time in that store). I had no problem at all OC’ing there and left. On my way to the grocery store I noticed a County Sheriff had a black pick up “pulled over” with the squad cars lights flashing. I wonderd what the guy in the truck did to get pulled over. I drove past them and continued to the grocery store. I checked my rear view mirror and noticed that the squad had pulled in right behind me and followed me into the store parking lot without lights flashing. As it was only 1 block I did not fasten my seat belt so I figured I was going to get a ticket for that. I pulled into a parking space and the squad stopped directly behind me. I got out of my car and based on what learned here I “asked him” the question… “How can I help you”… He asked me if I had a loaded gun in my car...!!! Again remembering stuff I read here, I remained totally calm and answered with another question… “No sir I do not, why do you ask”.
He then said that the guy in the black truck pulled him over and reported that I had a loaded gun in my car…??? To which I replied again… “No I do not”. He then asked if I had a gun in my car and I replied “Yes I do, but it is legal as it is unloaded and in a case as required by WI. State law… (reason for admitting I had a gun)… (I figured that if he already had a report that I had a “loaded” gun in my car that was cause for a search with or without my permission.) I proceeded to inform him that I was an open carrier and was well versed on the laws regarding OC and vehicle transport. At that time I also told him that I had just come from OC’ing in Walgreen’s without any issues at all and someone (the guy in the black truck) must have seen me in the parking lot and just assumed I got into my car with the loaded weapon still holstered on my hip. At that time I pointed to my empty holster on my hip. He then got out of his squad and asked me if he could check my weapon. I replied that as I have nothing to hide it would be ok with me… reason….from the very beginning he was polite and not at all confrontational and I also I knew I was 100% legal with nothing to hide). I stepped back and he proceeded to open the case, remove the weapon and check if it had a magazine in it. He said ok... and I suggested to him the he rack the slide to confirm I did not have a round in the chamber which he did. He then put the pistol back into the case. I then informed him that I intended to OC into the grocery store as I had already done so many times with the owner’s permission. He replied that he had no problem with that and no problem with OC’ing; it was just that he had to check out the report of a loaded weapon in a vehicle. I could tell that after he understood the situation he became a bit more relaxed and even friendlier.
He then asked me for my driver’s license for his report. I told him (1st time) that I wanted it written in his report that I was NOT doing anything illegal and was in complete compliance with the law. He said that he had no problem including that in his report as “It was obvious to him that I was not being disorderly”. I gave him my driver’s license ...Reason….He also was not in anyway confrontational or being a jerk so I figured why at that point should I start being being “non-cooperative”. He took my license and walked back to his squad to run it through the computer. He was literally parked about 5 feet away and had his window rolled down so in full view I proceeded to pick up my weapon from the car and put the Mag. in and chambered a round. I then took the mag out and replaced the round with the extra I keep available as I prefer to carry “Fully Loaded” (12+1). I holstered the weapon and walked up to his window. He mentioned that my license had a Racine WI address and that I had mentioned earlier that I was from Silver Lake. I told him I recently moved and did not get my license changed yet. He gave me back my license and continued writing his report. I told him again (2nd time) that I wanted it clearly stated that I was doing nothing illegal, he again said no problem and I watched him write exactly that. He offered for me to read the entry which I declined as I had witnessed him writing exactly what I requested. He thanked me for my cooperation and I thanked him for his understanding of the law and the situation. He mentioned that he was going to follow up with the person that made the complaint. I mentioned for a third time that I would appreciate him explaining OC to the person and let him no that no law was broken… he again said no problem and that he would do that to avoid another complaint from the same person if he ever saw another open carrier. I offered him my hand and he took it and we shook hands. He told me to have a nice day and I headed towards the store with my pistol holstered on my hip. He drove away…
There’s more….
In the commotion I forgot my cell phone in my car so I went back outside to get it…and there was the LEO writing down my license plate number. I again asked him “Can I help you”... He said that he was just getting my vehicle information for his report... I said ok no problem and confirmed the year it was made…He then asked me where I purchased my gun so I told him that I had bought it form a private party… reason… I figured that we had already parted company when I walked into the store and he drove away so it was more like just making conversation. He then asked me that because I purchased from a private party if he could run the gun to confirm that it was not stolen (by the seller) or ever used in a crime (?)… (I have always wondered about private party gun deals as to how do you know you are not buying a stolen weapon from a complete stranger) so I ok,d him running the gun… reason…for my own satisfaction and peace of mind that I did not buy a stolen weapon. He then asked for the serial number of the weapon... I removed it from the holster and started to read him the number… He stopped me and said he would have to read it for himself... (Obviously to insure I did not give him a false number)… I replied that under any other circumstance I would never surrender my weapon to anyone He reassured me that he was not going to keep the gun and that he had already “let” me walk away knowing that it was loaded on my hip. For reasons already listed above (not his reassurance) I handed him my weapon. Before I handed it to him I informed him that it was fully loaded with a round in the chamber. He said that he was experienced in handling loaded weapons and reached through the window and took the gun. We were both obviously careful not to sweep each other with the barrel. He wrote down the serial number and handed it back to me and I put in back in the holster. At that point he was entering the number and the weather was a little nasty, raining, sleeting and gusty winds. He told me if I wanted I could wait in my car to which I replied that “No, I couldn’t as I had a loaded pistol in my holster and sitting in my car would be illegal”, and joked that I sure as hell was not going to sit in the back of his car either… he chuckled. I will never know if this was a bait to get me to break the law, but buy his actions and facial expression when I replied, he genuinely seem to have a ….oh yea … that’s right…Duh…moment. I the told him that in all the commotion, I left my cell phone in the car and could I lean into the car to grab it off the seat. He replied sure no problem, so I did just that without an issue. The gun check came back ok (I was relived) and again I joked with him about if I got up on his front brush guard if he would give me a ride to the front doors of the store…He laughingly replied “I don’t think so” We then parted company for the last time.
OK..I know many here will find many faults (in their opinion) of my actions and willingness to share so nuch info, but in my mind it was a positive 1st LEO encounter because…
I did not get arrested…
I remained calm...
I initiated the conversation with a question…
I replied to his response with another question…
I based my attitude towards the LEO on his initial attitude towards me… non confrontational... he never drue his weapon. If he started with a confrontational attitude, I am positive I would have not been willing to share ANY info.
Early in the encounter I informed the LEO that even after being stopped for suspicion of having a loaded gun in my car I fully intended to exercise my legal and constitutional right to open carry in the grocery store and proceeded to load and holster my weapon in full view of the LEO. (by that time he was relaxed and confident that I was in fact an OC’er who knew his rights and the law, and did not have a loaded weapon in the car.)
I developed an almost friendly atmosphere with the LEO and was actually able to joke around with him during the end of our contact…
I pretty much insisted that he include in his report that I did absolutely nothing illegal (which he did).
I am confident that in future LEO encounters his report will speak in my favor…
I asked and he would agree to inform the person that made the complaint about OC and that it was in fact legal. Which he replied yes with a believable reason why he would…
I was able to find out that I do not own a stolen weapon.
I was wearing my new OC hat...
I will plead guilty to one mistake…. As I was already out of my car, and had realized the LEO had a non confrontational attitude, it never crossed my mind to turn on my video camera / voice recorder which I carry in a nylon case on my gun belt… I am real sure that I will not make that mistake in the future.
Finally, I totally based my attitude towards the LEO on his attitude towards me, and also that I am a very strong believer in “you reap what you sow” and as I was totally legal and had absolutely nothing to hide handling the situation they way I did was acceptable with the desired results achieved.
Outdoorsman1
