Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 43

Thread: Why would anyone need to carry on a college campus?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Why would anyone need to carry on a college campus?

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  2. #2
    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    111
    That could happen anywhere. While I'm all for being able to carry on campus, I've worked on a college campus and some of the young adults I've encountered doesn't have the mentality to carry a weapon, little lone use one to protect theirselves.

    Im all for students that have their permits to be able to carry concealed on a campus and I'm a big fan of teaching these young adults about situation awareness because most don't even have a clue as to what is going on around them.

  3. #3
    mattwestm
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    That could happen anywhere. While I'm all for being able to carry on campus, I've worked on a college campus and some of the young adults I've encountered doesn't have the mentality to carry a weapon, little lone use one to protect theirselves.

    Im all for students that have their permits to be able to carry concealed on a campus and I'm a big fan of teaching these young adults about situation awareness because most don't even have a clue as to what is going on around them.
    I also agree that not everyone should carry on campus (some people shouldn't be on campus or in college at all). I also believe that it would be beneficial for 1 out of 50 students to be a permit holder and carry on campus. People who are against campus carry always argue that they don't want the "drunk frat boys shooting everyone." What they don't realize is that only junior, seniors, or graduate students are the ones generally old enough to be able to obtain a CHP, and out of that group, only a small percentage of people are actually willing to get it. They seem to get an image in their mind of an entire campus of 25,000 being armed to the teeth and shooting one another. This simply isn't the case...

    There are several schools in the country that allow carry on campus. You never hear about someone getting drunk and shooting another student. These stories are all thought up by anti-gun Brady bigots.

    I am 21 years old and make good grades. I don't get drunk every night and I wouldn't want to be labeled as a student who behaves in that way. Believe it or not, most students do attend college to get an education and act maturely. It's that small percentage we've got to worry about. I strongly believe that if misbehaving students aren't serious about their school work, they aren't going to waste the time to get a CHP, only to abuse the privilege.

    EDIT: Things like this could turn very wrong... http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/M...119185779.html
    Last edited by mattwestm; 04-04-2011 at 02:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Conover
    Posts
    237
    ya good students make great citizens... Link grades with a "campus CHP" Like student athletes have... Say a 3.2GPA or higher to carry on campus...

    Just a thought

  5. #5
    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    ya good students make great citizens... Link grades with a "campus CHP" Like student athletes have... Say a 3.2GPA or higher to carry on campus...

    Just a thought
    I wouldn't go that far. To many college's "fix" grades for top athletes. I think if you have a CHP then you should be able to carry while on campus. I also think to limit the complaining one should be required to carry conceal while on campus.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Loughman,Florida, USA
    Posts
    119
    IMO if OC was just made blanket legal EVERYWHERE crime would go WAY down

    even idiot criminals would have doubts about mugging someone if 4 or 5 people within 20 yards were OC
    Last edited by edrolee; 04-04-2011 at 08:21 PM.
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    1,319
    I would say to flat allow carry just as if it were anywhere else, and my ideal there is Constitutional Carry anyway.

    The Antis are good enough at coming up with ways to limit our rights, we don't need to hypothesize how to do it for them.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

    OCDO Member
    NCGO Member

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran G22shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Concord, North Carolina
    Posts
    249

    OC vs CC on campus

    Due to the obvious difference in age requirements (OC=18 / CC=21), if any form of carry is made legal on PUBLIC college campuses it would probably be as CC.

    I believe there is a crucial difference between public and private colleges. PUBLIC colleges are state institutions; PRIVATE colleges are free to allow (or not) the carry of sidearms as they see fit.

  9. #9
    mattwestm
    Guest
    In Utah, OC and CC are both technically legal on a college campus with a permit. Unfortunately one of the schools there released some secret paperwork to the officers about what to do with an OCer. Even though it's legal, the school still thinks they can prevent OC. The ideal situation would be to allow CC on campus for permit holders. I enjoy OC, but for some reason I don't believe OC would blow over too well on a college campus here.

    The latest document in case anyone is interested: http://local.sltrib.com/upload/2011/..._open_cary.pdf

    Here are versions from 2010 and 2009:
    http://www.utahopencarry.com/wp-cont...licy_09-10.pdf
    http://www.utahopencarry.com/wp-cont...licy_09-09.pdf

  10. #10
    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    In Utah, OC and CC are both technically legal on a college campus with a permit.
    I'll admit I'm not following it very closely, but according to the memo April 2010 it states and I quote " As you know, concealed weapons permit holders may carry a concealed weapon on this campus. However, Utah statutes do not permit anyone to open carry on campus, regardless of whether the person has a concealed
    carry permit
    ."

    So is it illegal to OC or no?

  11. #11
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    1,319
    Quote Originally Posted by G22shooter View Post
    PUBLIC colleges are state institutions; PRIVATE colleges are free to allow (or not) the carry of sidearms as they see fit.
    Unfortunately, this is not true. While I believe that carry should be banned by statute at neither, for different reasons, it is currently banned at both public and private universities in NC.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

    OCDO Member
    NCGO Member

  12. #12
    mattwestm
    Guest
    I'm attending the 5th Annual North Carolina Higher Education Safety Webinar & Symposium on campus tomorrow.

    The speakers are as follows:
    Bill Stanton (As seen on ABC; CBS and Dateline NBC)
    Marisa Randazzo (Author of The Handbook for Campus Threat Assessment and Management Teams)
    Bob Grenier (Former Head of Counter-Terrorism and White House Liaison for CIA)

    It should be rather interesting, but I did receive this document via email concerning the symposium: http://www.nabita.org/documents/Whit...nsonCampus.pdf

    Any thoughts or comments on the document? At first it seemed rather neutral, but towards the end, you can clearly see the writer is anti-campus-carry.

  13. #13
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Greenville, NC, ,
    Posts
    591
    That document was far from neutral, and leaned extremely hard against gun rights and owners. The paper even tried to link students who owned guns with binge drinking. I mean, come on!

    Info on this symposium - it's something I'd like to try and make if I can
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

    Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    56
    Plain and simple. The only thing the laws against college carry do is it lets the bad guys pick off law abiding citizens while everyone else is defenseless. Bg's are bg's because they DONT obey the law. The only thing that law does is make good people who do obey them helpless.

  15. #15
    mattwestm
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    That document was far from neutral, and leaned extremely hard against gun rights and owners. The paper even tried to link students who owned guns with binge drinking. I mean, come on!

    Info on this symposium - it's something I'd like to try and make if I can
    Just forwarded the info to your ECU email. I'm not sure if I will be able to attend the entire event, but I will try to be there for at least part of it. I'm thinking I will be able to be there after 12:00. Unfortunately the really interesting lectures are first and I won't be able to make them. You might want to email the person in charge and make sure you don't need any kind of invitation. I'm getting extra credit by attending for my HLTH1101 class.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    I'm attending the 5th Annual North Carolina Higher Education Safety Webinar & Symposium on campus tomorrow.

    Can you send me info on this symposium? I'd LOVE to attend...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  17. #17
    mattwestm
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Can you send me info on this symposium? I'd LOVE to attend...
    Just forwarded it to your ECU email address.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Why would anyone need to carry on campus?
    Same reasons someone would 'need' to carry anywhere else:
    security
    defense
    exercise of a civil right
    because the police can't be everywhere all the time

    Assault, robbery, rape, & murder don't depend on the intended victim's age or attractiveness,
    only on the intended victim's perceived inability to fight back.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  19. #19
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Greenville, NC, ,
    Posts
    591
    I wont be able to attend the symposium - I have to be at work at 10, and it's too late for me to look for someone to cover for me. Dreamer, if you can make it, take notes and make the people speaking feel stupid, for me
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

    Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlotte,NC
    Posts
    9
    [QUOTE=mattwestm;1501726]
    There are several schools in the country that allow carry on campus. You never hear about someone getting drunk and shooting another student. These stories are all thought up by anti-gun Brady bigots.

    Just out of curiosity, is there a list or does anyone know what Colleges do allow people to carry?

  21. #21
    Regular Member REDFIVE48's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    247
    [QUOTE=srandle704;1504308]
    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    There are several schools in the country that allow carry on campus. You never hear about someone getting drunk and shooting another student. These stories are all thought up by anti-gun Brady bigots.

    Just out of curiosity, is there a list or does anyone know what Colleges do allow people to carry?
    Concealed carry is allowed in Utah

  22. #22
    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    186
    More about the campus carry topic.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/08...nevada-woman/#

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    CC on college campuses has been legal in Utah since 2006.

    In that time, according to the official figures from the Utah Department of Public Safety, there has not been a single weapons-related crime reported on Utah campuses attributable to a lawful gun owner--no assaults, no suicides, no homicides, no brandishing, no threats, no AD/NDs, and not even a theft of a lawful firearm.

    In fact, since 2006, incidents of robbery, assault, and sexual assault have been on a steady decline on Utah campuses.

    But the "experts" all say there is no "reliable evidence" that shows CC on college campuses is safe, or a crime deterrent...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    I attended the "Safety Symposium" today. It was largely disappointing, and partly creepy.

    The 3 person panel focused mainly on situational awareness and intoxication-related crimes. They hinted in the intro that they would touch on CCC (campus Concealed Carry), because it has recently been in the news with the Texas and Florida legislative moves, but they never did address it.

    I was rather disappointed, because I had bookmarked my copy of "Gun Facts", and had several relevant webpages bookmarked on my iPhone.

    The "white paper" produced on the Florida CCC issue was predictably propagandistic. I was so put off by it that I spent most of the morning marking it up with notes about all the lies and misleading information it contained. By the time I was done, marking it up with corrections, citations to NIJ and BJS studies, and studies done by State LEAs proving the entire paper false, there was almost more red ink on the paper than laser toner. Unfortunately I never got a chance to address it, because they never addressed it...

    The second part of the day was about "hiring practices" and strategies for vetting new hires in the university. The consultant was a company called QVersity, which was self-admittedly started by ex-CIA officers. I found it mildly ironic that ex-CIA officers were giving universities advice not to hire people who were deceptive. By their own standards, their company should not have been hired to give said presentation...

    I attempted to talk to the author of the "white paper" during the break about the whole concept of "duty to protect" which came up over and over again in the panel discussion, but she tried to dodge my question by twisting it into a discussion about civil vs. criminal liability. After about 5 minutes of this, I finally thanked her for her time, and told her that our conversation was over, because I found it personally insulting that she would think I was so stupid that I would fall for such a brazen attempt at obfuscation of the issue, and I walked away.

    You can't discuss this issue with people like this--When you ask for clarification they try to confuse you by changing the discussion parameters, and when you attempt to offer them REAL verifiable resources and citations, they just say that you are lying. Reason, logic, and rigorous scholarship is anathema to people like this.

    Needless to say, I will be producing a marked up version of her "white paper", and posting it somewhere on the internet soon. She can try and spread this shoddy research, propagandistic speculation, and fear-based manipulation, but I see it as my duty as a graduate student at a major university to do everything I can to expose her duplicity, lies, and intellectual dishonesty.

    The scary thing is that she is the Dean of a law school...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-08-2011 at 09:26 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  25. #25
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    1,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I attended the "Safety Symposium" today. It was largely disappointing, and partly creepy.

    The 3 person panel focused mainly on situational awareness and intoxication-related crimes. They hinted in the intro that they would touch on CCC (campus Concealed Carry), because it has recently been in the news with the Texas and Florida legislative moves, but they never did address it.

    I was rather disappointed, because I had bookmarked my copy of "Gun Facts", and had several relevant webpages bookmarked on my iPhone.

    The "white paper" produced on the Florida CCC issue was predictably propagandistic. I was so put off by it that I spent most of the morning marking it up with notes about all the lies and misleading information it contained. By the time I was done, marking it up with corrections, citations to NIJ and BJS studies, and studies done by State LEAs proving the entire paper false, there was almost more red ink on the paper than laser toner. Unfortunately I never got a chance to address it, because they never addressed it...

    The second part of the day was about "hiring practices" and strategies for vetting new hires in the university. The consultant was a company called QVersity, which was self-admittedly started by ex-CIA officers. I found it mildly ironic that ex-CIA officers were giving universities advice not to hire people who were deceptive. By their own standards, their company should not have been hired to give said presentation...

    I attempted to talk to the author of the "white paper" during the break about the whole concept of "duty to protect" which came up over and over again in the panel discussion, but she tried to dodge my question by twisting it into a discussion about civil vs. criminal liability. After about 5 minutes of this, I finally thanked her for her time, and told her that our conversation was over, because I found it personally insulting that she would think I was so stupid that I would fall for such a brazen attempt at obfuscation of the issue, and I walked away.

    You can't discuss this issue with people like this--When you ask for clarification they try to confuse you by changing the discussion parameters, and when you attempt to offer them REAL verifiable resources and citations, they just say that you are lying. Reason, logic, and rigorous scholarship is anathema to people like this.

    Needless to say, I will be producing a marked up version of her "white paper", and posting it somewhere on the internet soon. She can try and spread this shoddy research, propagandistic speculation, and fear-based manipulation, but I see it as my duty as a graduate student at a major university to do everything I can to expose her duplicity, lies, and intellectual dishonesty.

    The scary thing is that she is the Dean of a law school...
    Perhaps consider posting it around campus as well?
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

    OCDO Member
    NCGO Member

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •