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Thread: Road Rage

  1. #1
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    Road Rage

    Ok. This may be in the wrong place and feel free to move if needed.

    This happened tome yesterday and I feel I handled it correctly (except on big part).

    My g/f and I were taking a nice leisurely motorcycle ride on some back roads yesterday and I looked in the mirror to see a Camaro right up on me. It scared me because he was so close. I accelerated and created space between us as I would normally do in this situation.

    After a few seconds I looked again and he was even closer. So close in fact that I thought he was about to tap me with his bumper. Scared me pretty bad. I pulled to the shoulder to let him pass...then made one of my mistakes of the day. I "saluted" him as he passed me. He locks the car up and gets out. I make a quick u-turn and hi-tail it away from him. I put as much distance as I could on a big ole Harley in case he made chase. I don't think he did and I was NOT carrying on that ride.

    I know I messed up with the "salute" and I know I should always carry...but I feel I would have u-turned and tried to get away from him regardless. The last thing I need is an incident. If I were carrying I would have never given the gesture...knowing the consequences

    I'm curious to know how you would have handled it.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Always carry - never "salute" - always leave if I can.

    Next question.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
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    By "salute", did you mean you flipped him off or actually salute him? Why would you salute him???
    "If you don't want to be shorn, don't be sheep!"

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    next time, blow kisses. i find this always illicits a creative response from the enemy.

    oh and next time, wait for him to get closer, ask him what he wants.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Always carry - never "salute" - always leave if I can.

    Next question.
    Is a 'salute' considered 'pointing?' It does use one finger, right?

    :-p
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Yes. My "salute" was pointing up with that one special finger...and it was not the right thing to do. I generally can refrain from stuff like that but this guy was closer than I thought possible without touching my rear fender.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Is a 'salute' considered 'pointing?' It does use one finger, right?

    :-p
    The fickle finger salute has been recognized as a 1st Amendment right, but it could also be perceived as contributing to the problem. Don't want to be in the position of having the judge deciding that my reaction to a threat was anything less than honorable and legal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member GF's Avatar
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    Last time the wifey "saluted" some idiot that ran a stop sign, she was chased and he was trying to run her off the road. It was a really scary moment for her.

  9. #9
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    tx-s:

    You handled yourself well. But the most important thing you did right was the after-action assessment.

    I wish others were as responsible as you.

  10. #10
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Smile

    Always carry, never salute. It elicits unwelcome responses. Also does nothing for the self evaluation of your own intellect. That's a dumb asses way of responding. Smile and wave with all fingers connected, makes em wonder about you more.
    BTW did you say "Baaaah" as you walked out the door that day?
    Last edited by KansasMustang; 04-05-2011 at 07:35 AM. Reason: add on
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    I remember when I was around 12 years old, one fine summer Saturday, Dad and I were working out in the front yard. Some young punks were speeding down the street past my home (speed limit was 20, they were doing at least 30). Dad yelled at them to slow down, and the driver "saluted" him in response. My father was never the calmest person, and I expected him to holler something back at them. Instead, he surprised me by calmly turning back to me and saying "You know what that was? The number of friends he had before his dog died."

    That memory will probably stay with me till the day I die.

    On topic... yeah, as much as I feel the urge to "salute" folks like that Camaro driver, it's best to avoid such a response. It is in no way beneficial, and can easily push a pissy driver over the edge into full-on road rage (found that out the hard way). The best response in such a situation is to disengage and evade the road-rager as quickly and safely as possible, preferably in a place with witnesses in case the road-rager decides to jump out of his car or do something similarly stupid.

  12. #12
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    I "saluted" a piece of equipment today. It was so messed up. I didn't know what to say.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    When I was first commissioned as an officer, I had to remind my ex-wife that a salute involved more than one finger!
    Hence, "ex" wife.

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    No cell phone on you?

    I've learned to just call the police when someone is making it a point to blatantly tail gate (or a myriad of other stuff ahole drivers do but cops never enforce unless called on it). Obviously there is more danger when you are on a bike, but the situation is the same.

    Call, get cops to stop other driver, file complaint if you want. I have yet to actually file a complaint on anyone I've called on, but I've had many people stopped (I'll stop too when the cops finally find us) and talked to by the police.

    Does it make them wake up and not do that anymore? I don't know, but at the least, if something were to go down, you'd have the upper hand as the "first person who calls".

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    As a biker myself I know what you mean. He could have easily taken you out. I, and the wife, would have flipped him the bird. Now I would not have turned around and sped off. My reason being that if he had balls enough to stop and approach you, let alone ride your tail, he could have turned also and run you off the road and killed you both. If he slowed and stopped I would have gone around him. If I couldn't, I would hold my ground and I'm not a big guy. I'm really surprised he approached a biker.
    If he kept riding my butt, they make ball bearings or spare change that 'fall' out of my pouches at bad times. My HD bud carried a ball peen hammer mounted to his saddle bag. Uses it when cars come into his lane. I have seen him use it on car mirrors before and they seem to notice you after that.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    As a biker myself I know what you mean. He could have easily taken you out. I, and the wife, would have flipped him the bird. Now I would not have turned around and sped off. My reason being that if he had balls enough to stop and approach you, let alone ride your tail, he could have turned also and run you off the road and killed you both. If he slowed and stopped I would have gone around him. If I couldn't, I would hold my ground and I'm not a big guy. I'm really surprised he approached a biker.
    If he kept riding my butt, they make ball bearings or spare change that 'fall' out of my pouches at bad times. My HD bud carried a ball peen hammer mounted to his saddle bag. Uses it when cars come into his lane. I have seen him use it on car mirrors before and they seem to notice you after that.
    Could be a very bad idea - makes you the aggressor and the other party has the evidence too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Could be a very bad idea - makes you the aggressor and the other party has the evidence too.
    I gratiously disagree. Continuosly riding my butt after a few attempts to pull ahead makes them the agressor. Someone looks out their window at you and still decides they still want in your lane also does. Trying to find a ball bearing at 75 mph on the highway will take some time. lol As far as the hammer thing, rather live to ride another day then to be killed by a cage.
    Its hard to understand our thinking if you do not ride, which I have no idea if you do or not. Its a different world. Had a lady, in a van, go around a combine in my lane one day. She saw me but continued around around anyway. Forced me to stop in the grass. She got a size 11 boot to the back end of her van.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Could be a very bad idea - makes you the aggressor and the other party has the evidence too.
    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    I gratiously disagree. Continuosly riding my butt after a few attempts to pull ahead makes them the agressor. Someone looks out their window at you and still decides they still want in your lane also does. Trying to find a ball bearing at 75 mph on the highway will take some time. lol As far as the hammer thing, rather live to ride another day then to be killed by a cage.
    Its hard to understand our thinking if you do not ride, which I have no idea if you do or not. Its a different world. Had a lady, in a van, go around a combine in my lane one day. She saw me but continued around around anyway. Forced me to stop in the grass. She got a size 11 boot to the back end of her van.
    At the least that would be escalating the situation.

    Appreciate your POV though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    As a biker myself I know what you mean. He could have easily taken you out. I, and the wife, would have flipped him the bird....
    ....If he kept riding my butt, they make ball bearings or spare change that 'fall' out of my pouches at bad times. My HD bud carried a ball peen hammer mounted to his saddle bag. Uses it when cars come into his lane. I have seen him use it on car mirrors before and they seem to notice you after that.
    Yeah, as I have been told by acquaintances, there are more than a few vehicles out in the world with radiators which have been punctured by (plausibly road-dwelling) feral spark plugs with unusually high delta-v. Whoops. Anyway, road rage is also another in a long line of good reasons to wear a helmet. After all, you're expected to take your helmet off to have a good shouting match, err, conversation, and once it's off you have a dandy, and totally innocuous looking 2-3+ lb bludgeon to keep right in your hand in case things come to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    At the least that would be escalating the situation.
    In some states, if one knowingly, or had reasonable belief that an action would put someone in fear of imminent serious bodily injury or death, you could be charged with 'menacing' or some equivalent. It could even be treated as felony violent crime in my state (i.e. enabling use of force to defend one self), if the aggressor used or even simply threatened use of an imaginary weapon. I suspect most states have similar statutes. All of this, just for causing *fear*. Knowingly causing actual danger, which is unquestionably present in such a vehicular situation?

    As statistics prove, multi-ton murder machines (i.e. cars and trucks) are dangerous enough when they are not used as weapons. Aggressively tailgating a motorcyclist not once but twice? Hmm.Then, say the aggressor did get out and further threaten someone, for such a minor inconvenience as being exposed to the bird? A felony conviction aught to be a slam dunk for any half-competent DA.

    I'm not sure how much more one could possibly escalate the situation without physically injuring someone.
    Last edited by CO-Joe; 04-05-2011 at 10:27 PM. Reason: formatting

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Fortunately there are no DA/PA that are less than half competent; hence, there are no innocent people in prison. Everybody walks that thinks they are right. ( hyper sarcasm )
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    With the advent of cell phones, phone cams, mini-cams and recorders there is EVERY reason to get it on video and to call 911 and report the license plate and no real reason to become counter-aggressive.

    The OP was responsible after the fact but totally irresponsible in not getting the license plate or calling it in. Why? Well, think about it. When you're having an aggro response you forget to do the logical thing.

    $.02

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    With the advent of cell phones, phone cams, mini-cams and recorders there is EVERY reason to get it on video and to call 911 and report the license plate and no real reason to become counter-aggressive.

    The OP was responsible after the fact but totally irresponsible in not getting the license plate or calling it in. Why? Well, think about it. When you're having an aggro response you forget to do the logical thing.

    $.02
    Very true, all of what you said.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    With the advent of cell phones, phone cams, mini-cams and recorders there is EVERY reason to get it on video and to call 911 and report the license plate and no real reason to become counter-aggressive.

    The OP was responsible after the fact but totally irresponsible in not getting the license plate or calling it in. Why? Well, think about it. When you're having an aggro response you forget to do the logical thing.

    $.02
    Remember:

    1) that I was on a motorcycle. I cannot exactly operate such devices and operate the machine.

    2) If I had stayed long enough to do these things the situation would have certainly escalated into a road-rage incident and there would have been bodily harm.

    My intention was to remove myself from the situation since it was an easy thing to do. Flight or flight. I chose flight because I had the ability. Now had he chased me down after that I would be telling a different story.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx-skydiver View Post
    Remember:

    1) that I was on a motorcycle. I cannot exactly operate such devices and operate the machine.
    I understand but presume your G/F on the back had a cell phone with a cam? In the future, I'd suggest a 'lesson learned' here would be to have her ride 'vid-cam' shotgun. You can call yourself and leave a message and recite the license plate, for example. I ran into some trouble on my road bike and started carrying a video cam on the handlebars and recording every ride. That's a bit impractical - the battery cost was not small, but I felt protected.

    2) If I had stayed long enough to do these things the situation would have certainly escalated into a road-rage incident and there would have been bodily harm.
    Oh, I think you did the right thing by fleeing the incident. A bike is no match for a car, and you're all tied up holding the bike up if he approaches you. Fighting in traffic is very dangerous. I hope you never have this happen again and are now a bit more prepared.

    I must say I think it's a good idea to make a pact with yourself to NEVER pull or brandish your HG on the road as a result of traffic problems. That can only escalate things. Have your HG ready, but otherwise try to practice de-escalation. I can't say I blame you for flipping him off, but IMO it might have been prudent to pull over and let him pass immediately after the first time you noticed him tailgating in such a dangerous fashion. We tend to be have a bit of bravado when riding a MC, don'tcha know and need to be aware of this and be extra-safe and low key, especially with a helpless passenger on the back.

    Say safe, man.

    Thanks for posting this encounter - it was very interesting.

  25. #25
    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    I remember when I was around 12 years old, one fine summer Saturday, Dad and I were working out in the front yard. Some young punks were speeding down the street past my home (speed limit was 20, they were doing at least 30). Dad yelled at them to slow down, and the driver "saluted" him in response. My father was never the calmest person, and I expected him to holler something back at them. Instead, he surprised me by calmly turning back to me and saying "You know what that was? The number of friends he had before his dog died."

    That memory will probably stay with me till the day I die.

    On topic... yeah, as much as I feel the urge to "salute" folks like that Camaro driver, it's best to avoid such a response. It is in no way beneficial, and can easily push a pissy driver over the edge into full-on road rage (found that out the hard way). The best response in such a situation is to disengage and evade the road-rager as quickly and safely as possible, preferably in a place with witnesses in case the road-rager decides to jump out of his car or do something similarly stupid.
    A few years back, before Ohio had CC my nephew great nephew and me were going down the raod when a driver started tailgating us. When it turned to two lanes, my nephew started tailgating him. I asked him just what the hell he thought he was doing and what if the guy slammed on his brakes and jumped out the car wanting trouble. My nephew said "I'll deal with it". I then said, "and if he pulls a gun, kills me and your son then turns the gun on himself, leaving you alive to think about how you dealt with it, How will you feel then"? He straightened up after that.

    Then there are times that some people get more of a cocky (make my day) attitude when they carry. CCing and OCing should make one less aggressive and more apt to avoid situations. Your dad taught you a great lesson that day by keeping his calm. GOOD for HIM.

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