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Thread: Alabama bill seeks to stop open carry in city hall

  1. #1
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    Alabama bill seeks to stop open carry in city hall

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6547

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    Anti-gun Senate Bill 31 could be heard by the state Senate Judiciary Committee as early as this Wednesday, April 6. The language of SB 31 would weaken Alabama’s firearms preemption law.

    Current law does not allow a municipality to regulate the carrying of firearms in public buildings or at public events. SB 31, sponsored by state Senator Linda Coleman (D-20), would authorize a municipality to regulate and prohibit persons from carrying a firearm in municipal buildings and on municipal property, including, but not limited to, in a city or town hall or council chamber, in municipal administration buildings, or at municipal parks and recreation facilities and sports facilities.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    Starting my letter and email contact with them. Let them no we will not stand for this from our public servants

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Angry

    We've had representatives 'assure' us that the bill is 'going nowhere' and yet it is still on the docket. Between this and our attempts at introducing the SDPA, it's pretty clear to me that 'Pay to Play' is still alive and well in Alabama.

    I guess we're just not making enough noise yet. They'll see that we mean business when they try to run for reelection and we dog them every step of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdonalk View Post
    We've had representatives 'assure' us that the bill is 'going nowhere' and yet it is still on the docket. Between this and our attempts at introducing the SDPA, it's pretty clear to me that 'Pay to Play' is still alive and well in Alabama.

    I guess we're just not making enough noise yet. They'll see that we mean business when they try to run for reelection and we dog them every step of the way.
    When I keep checking on Alison, the bill keeps showing as being in committee. I think it is stuck there. That is how some bills die. They never make it out of committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    When I keep checking on Alison, the bill keeps showing as being in committee. I think it is stuck there. That is how some bills die. They never make it out of committee.
    I see that this is an old thread, and I'm new here, but I have some questions relating to this. The City of Hamilton, Alabama has just passed a resolution, law, whatever you want to call it, that bans weapons of any kind, concealed or open carry, permit or not, at any municipal buildings, parks, etc. Also included in this is any city function (ie., parade, customer appreciation day, festival). I always thought, because of what the local sherrif has posted on his office, that firearms were not allowed in any government owned building anyway? That contradicts what I have read here.

    As far as city functions, it seems that would cause alot of problems for law abiding citizens who choose to open carry, especially passers by who stopped in to take in the festivities.

    I see that the bill SB31 is still in committee, so....am I right to assume that the code, law, whatever that the city council enacted here is unlawful or unconstitutional? What steps, if any, can be made to address this issue? Or should I just carry on and face the issue when it is a problem?

    Curt99rsv

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Alabama has complete state preemption on firearms laws excepting the discharge thereof.

    Check out the links included in the interactive map.
    http://www.opencarry.org/al.html
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    That bill, SB 31, is dead unless it exits committee during an emergency session of the legislature.

    Hamilton's new ordinance is unconstitutional; 11-80-11, 11-45-1.1, and AL Const 1901 Section 89.

    SECTION 89

    Municipalities not to pass laws in conflict with general laws of state.

    The legislature shall not have power to authorize any municipal corporation to pass any laws inconsistent with the general laws of this state.


    SECTION 110

    "General law," "local law" and "special or private law" defined.

    A general law within the meaning of this article is a law which applies to the whole state; a local law is a law which applies to any political subdivision or subdivisions of the state less than the whole; a special or private law within the meaning of this article is one which applies to an individual, association, or corporation.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    That bill, SB 31, is dead unless it exits committee during an emergency session of the legislature.

    Hamilton's new ordinance is unconstitutional; 11-80-11, 11-45-1.1, and AL Const 1901 Section 89.

    SECTION 89

    Municipalities not to pass laws in conflict with general laws of state.

    The legislature shall not have power to authorize any municipal corporation to pass any laws inconsistent with the general laws of this state.


    SECTION 110

    "General law," "local law" and "special or private law" defined.

    A general law within the meaning of this article is a law which applies to the whole state; a local law is a law which applies to any political subdivision or subdivisions of the state less than the whole; a special or private law within the meaning of this article is one which applies to an individual, association, or corporation.
    Thanks for the replies, that's about what I thought. May be time for an letter to the editor in the paper....the same paper which praised the city for having people "put their guns down", and that in the same article urged the County Commission to do the same. Drives me crazy to live in this town...
    Anyway, thanks again, really enjoying the forum.

    Curt99rsv

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    To address another point you raised, there is a good chance that there is language on the back of your pistol permit to the effect of "This permit is void in any air terminal or in any courthouse, city, county, state, or federal building." If so, all this means is someone with a permit from your county (but not someone who doesn't have this restriction. How's that for "Equal Protection Under the Law"?) cannot carry concealed in the listed places. The permit in no way regulates or restricts the open carry of a firearm.

    As far as challenging the law in your city. Don't get discouraged if they completely ignore you. They will. Don't get discouraged if they claim the law doesn't mean what it says it means. They will. Just keep pushing back, and eventually someone will notice.

    Or just cut to the chase and sue them. You know, if you've got the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone Baritone View Post
    To address another point you raised, there is a good chance that there is language on the back of your pistol permit to the effect of "This permit is void in any air terminal or in any courthouse, city, county, state, or federal building." If so, all this means is someone with a permit from your county (but not someone who doesn't have this restriction. How's that for "Equal Protection Under the Law"?) cannot carry concealed in the listed places. The permit in no way regulates or restricts the open carry of a firearm.

    As far as challenging the law in your city. Don't get discouraged if they completely ignore you. They will. Don't get discouraged if they claim the law doesn't mean what it says it means. They will. Just keep pushing back, and eventually someone will notice.

    Or just cut to the chase and sue them. You know, if you've got the money.
    Well, I certainly don't have the money to sue, but...I am friends with the City attorney. This isn't the first time that Hamilton has tried to avert State law. I will try to meet with him this week and see...but I fully expect to be ignored. May be time to attend some of the city council meetings and at least be heard by the local media (who prolly won't report it anyway, since they are openly for the resolution). Frustrating...

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    Time to remind them that the state cannot be made a defendant, but the city, city board, and each as individuals can. There are criminal penalties, and there are civil remedies.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Now for a new twist on all of this...the police officer who started this had a run in with who I am assuming was a law abiding citizen at a Fall festival in town. The chief had recieved a complaint that the citizen had a bowie knife on his belt and it made a woman "uncomfortable". The officer asked the man to conceal his knife to which he did....but according to 13A-11-50 "person who carries concealed about his person a bowie knife.....on conviction be fined...also be imprisoned...". Without reading all of the Code of Alabama, it appears on the surface that the officer took a law abiding citizen, asked him to conceal his bowie knife (thereby making him illegal), then used this type of common sense to persuade the city council to pass a law that they do not have the authority to make....Hamilton officials never cease to amaze me...

  13. #13
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    That officer needs to be brought up on charges of criminal coercion. What if another officer had arrested the poor man under 13A-11-50? Sure, he would have been able to claim entrapment, but he- not the officer- would be on the hook for lawyer fees and court costs.

    At the very least, an officer who would order a citizen to do something clearly illegal needs reprimand and retraining.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone Baritone View Post
    That officer needs to be brought up on charges of criminal coercion. What if another officer had arrested the poor man under 13A-11-50? Sure, he would have been able to claim entrapment, but he- not the officer- would be on the hook for lawyer fees and court costs.

    At the very least, an officer who would order a citizen to do something clearly illegal needs reprimand and retraining.
    Yes and yes. I haven't been ordered to do the illegal often, but I've been told over a police car PA to ride by bike on the sidewalk. Not only is it against state law to do so, the city of Birmingham has an ordinance against it.

    and I was OC at the time. Entrapment much?
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    Time to remind them that the state cannot be made a defendant, but the city, city board, and each as individuals can. There are criminal penalties, and there are civil remedies.
    Kirb are you trying to say you cannot sue the state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALOC1911 View Post
    Kirb are you trying to say you cannot sue the state?
    You can't sue the state in state court.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    But you can still sue state officials in their individual capacity, and in their official capacity if you can show they acted outside of their lawful authority.
    Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 11-29-2011 at 01:00 PM.

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    Exactly... the state is indemnified of it's actions, but those people in positions of power ARE liable for the actions of those under them.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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