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Thread: The Downside of Expanding OC in Alabama

  1. #1
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    The Downside of Expanding OC in Alabama

    OC in Alabama is exploding. Less than a year ago we numbered fewer than a dozen. We now have hundreds, from all over the State, OCing on a regular basis.

    The downside is that the issue is being put front and center on the radar of departments that will not tolerate it. And those departments are throwing a LE tantrum, pulling out the stops to harass OCers even though they know the case to be a loser.

    One of our members was just sent this email from the chief of police:

    The investigation is complete, the prosecutor has reviewed the case and the magistrate has issued a misdemeanor warrant for your arrest. The charge is"Carrying a Pistol on Premises not his Own" and the bond has been set at $300. You may come to the police department and turn yourself in and you will be allowed to sign your own bond and will be given a court date in Municipal Court.

    I would appreciate it if you could come in within the next couple days.
    The quoted language is from 13A-11-52. Several cases in Alabama have made it crystal clear that folks cannot be charged under -52. If the prosecutor did the most cursory review of case law on -52, he'd know this.

    He is either incredibly incompetent, incredibly dense, or incredibly malicious--possibly all three. This case represents the grossest violations of the rights of a carrier in Alabama yet.

    Mike, I hope you read this post. I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on it.

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    I thought the downside was discovering exactly what law defines state-wide pre-emption.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    I thought the downside was discovering exactly what law defines state-wide pre-emption.
    LEO may throw a tantrum however if your get a group together " safety in numbers" there is not much that they can do except sit back and throw a hiss fit. Let them be pissed off. they are a civil servant no more no less

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    So, generally, where did this happen and what is the person going to do about it? I *assume* he's going to fight it?
    Last edited by FTG-05; 04-06-2011 at 08:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    So, generally, where did this happen and what is the person going to do about it? I *assume* he's going to fight it?
    http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/in...p?topic=1397.0

    sometimes best to read it yourself. Its not all just the first post though, so just browse through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckinchico View Post
    LEO may throw a tantrum however if your get a group together " safety in numbers" there is not much that they can do except sit back and throw a hiss fit. Let them be pissed off. they are a civil servant no more no less
    Actually, if we carry in numbers, there is something they can do. It is unlawful to demonstrate in Alabama while armed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/in...p?topic=1397.0

    sometimes best to read it yourself. Its not all just the first post though, so just browse through.
    Reading it now, thanks!

    That chief:

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I had no idea AL was part free/part slave. Or do you just have more than your quota of ignorant cops?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I had no idea AL was part free/part slave. Or do you just have more than your quota of ignorant cops?
    We have more than our quota of ignorant cops and prosecutors. Also, we have confusing laws that seem to prohibit OC. However, court rulings in AL have clearly established that OC is lawful. Any municipality/county/department/prosecutor worth a flip can do the research and determine the lawful nature of OC beyond any doubt. Any who do not are incompetent, lazy, in denial, or all three.

    Because of the section we call "dash 52," I was on OCDO about a month before I was finally convinced that OC in Alabama was lawful--thanks to Mike for making the law clear. Folks whose profession is the law should be able to go through this process in about an hour.

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    Just a reminder, under Alabama law, notice of intent to file suit for false arrest, must be made within 6 months of the arrest, not 6 months after being found not guilty.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, if we carry in numbers, there is something they can do. It is unlawful to demonstrate in Alabama while armed.
    Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

    Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering
    Last edited by stuckinchico; 04-06-2011 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Spelling and grammer monster attacks!!!!!

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    Statute or Constitutional law and Common law have kept OC legal. It seems attempts were made in Codified law to make all forms of carry illegal, but the courts looked to common and constitutional law on how to rule. The net result is its a bit confusing at first glance, but OC is legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckinchico View Post
    Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

    Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering
    The implication was that the "carry in numbers" was in response to what the LEOs have done. That would be a demonstration. I will not participate nor would I condone breaking the law in that way.

    BTW, we already get together to do the things you suggest, just not in public by way of protesting unlawful arrests.

  14. #14
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    WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...
    Actually, had the chief and the prosecutor been right on the law, that email would have impressed me with the civil way in which the law is enforced for non-violent misdemeanors. That they are so wrong on the law betrays their unprofessionalism.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    eye95,

    Do you have a contact number or could you give me a call regarding this incident?

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    Quote Originally Posted by insane.kangaroo View Post
    eye95,

    Do you have a contact number or could you give me a call regarding this incident?
    I have opened up my PM inbox. You can PM me.

    After some bad experiences with malicious posters on other boards, I am very guarded with my personal information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckinchico View Post
    Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

    Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering
    If you're airing grievances, it's demonstration. If you're making a(n orderly) disturbance, it's a demonstration. If you're just sitting and drinking coffee and talking about cars or carbines, it's a peaceable assembly.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...
    Thanks to the way Alabama's laws are written, that's about as friendly as one can hope for. From this day on, until he has turned himself in, he can expect a knock on the door or to be stopped at any point while driving and be summarily arrested and extradited.

    I'd love to know what "competent" Judge signed that warrant.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    I'd write back and politely explain that I know the law, and that I will sue him personally for official oppression. What is it the statists say? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    That's an interesting point. We do have a coercion law:

    http://alisondb.legislature.state.al...5/13A-6-25.htm
    Section 13A-6-25

    Criminal coercion.

    (a) A person commits the crime of criminal coercion if, without legal authority, he threatens to confine, restrain or to cause physical injury to the threatened person or another, or to damage the property or reputation of the threatened person or another with intent thereby to induce the threatened person or another against his will to do an unlawful act or refrain from doing a lawful act.
    (b) Criminal coercion is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2125.)

    In light of the above email, I'd print the email, inclusive of the headers that show it originated from the city's email servers and go to the county DA or circuit judge and (try to) have the chief and DA brought up on charges.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 04-09-2011 at 08:35 PM.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Final hearing was yesterday, 06/21/11. Verdict was guilty, appeal bond has been posted.

    Details here, and at Alabama Open Carry.

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    For "loser" cases, the law enforcment community is having a terrific run of luck in Alabama. They're two convictions for two cases so far.

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    The results of the last two "trials" should come as no surprise. We need to remember that the "Judges" that inhabit the municipal courts are all political appointments. They are not elected by the people. They were appointed to their lucrative positions by mayors and city councils with the understanding that they would protect the interests of those cities. As sad a commentary as it is, I have to admit that the chances of a citizen getting a fair "trial" in a city or district court for that matter in my home state of Alabama are about nil. Now this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with our area of interests, the protection of the 2nd amendment. Any charge brought before the afore mentioned "courts" that have the potential of causing a suit being brought against the city is cause for the "judge" to find for the prosecution. Another result of this action is, in Alabama, if a defendant is found guilty in any phase of the court system, it is protection for the officer involved from being sucessfully sued for false arrest. For any such finding of guilt presumes the officer had probable cause for the arrest. So there is a method to this madness. They know the rules, the fine points of the law that serve to protect the interests of the municipalities.
    The only possible recourse is to follow through with a real trial, by a jury or your peers.
    Then and only then can you attempt to recover damages as a result of the arrest.
    One more reminder. notice to the municipality involved that you intend to file suit, must be given within 6 months of the date of the arrest, not the date you are ultimately found not guilty.

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    Is the six-month restriction federal or State law? Whichever one it is, sue in the other's court.

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