The Downside of Expanding OC in Alabama

eye95 · Apr 5, 2011

OC in Alabama is exploding. Less than a year ago we numbered fewer than a dozen. We now have hundreds, from all over the State, OCing on a regular basis.

The downside is that the issue is being put front and center on the radar of departments that will not tolerate it. And those departments are throwing a LE tantrum, pulling out the stops to harass OCers even though they know the case to be a loser.

One of our members was just sent this email from the chief of police:

The investigation is complete, the prosecutor has reviewed the case and the magistrate has issued a misdemeanor warrant for your arrest. The charge is"Carrying a Pistol on Premises not his Own" and the bond has been set at $300. You may come to the police department and turn yourself in and you will be allowed to sign your own bond and will be given a court date in Municipal Court.

I would appreciate it if you could come in within the next couple days.

The quoted language is from 13A-11-52. Several cases in Alabama have made it crystal clear that folks cannot be charged under -52. If the prosecutor did the most cursory review of case law on -52, he'd know this.

He is either incredibly incompetent, incredibly dense, or incredibly malicious--possibly all three. This case represents the grossest violations of the rights of a carrier in Alabama yet.

Mike, I hope you read this post. I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on it.

Kirbinator · Apr 5, 2011

I thought the downside was discovering exactly what law defines state-wide pre-emption.

stuckinchico · Apr 5, 2011

Kirbinator said:
I thought the downside was discovering exactly what law defines state-wide pre-emption.

LEO may throw a tantrum however if your get a group together " safety in numbers" there is not much that they can do except sit back and throw a hiss fit. Let them be pissed off. they are a civil servant no more no less

FTG-05 · Apr 6, 2011

So, generally, where did this happen and what is the person going to do about it? I *assume* he's going to fight it?

Daylen · Apr 6, 2011

FTG-05 said:
So, generally, where did this happen and what is the person going to do about it? I *assume* he's going to fight it?

http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/index.php?topic=1397.0

sometimes best to read it yourself. Its not all just the first post though, so just browse through.

eye95 · Apr 6, 2011

stuckinchico said:
LEO may throw a tantrum however if your get a group together " safety in numbers" there is not much that they can do except sit back and throw a hiss fit. Let them be pissed off. they are a civil servant no more no less

Actually, if we carry in numbers, there is something they can do. It is unlawful to demonstrate in Alabama while armed.

FTG-05 · Apr 6, 2011

Daylen said:
http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/index.php?topic=1397.0

sometimes best to read it yourself. Its not all just the first post though, so just browse through.

Reading it now, thanks!

That chief: :banghead:

Gunslinger · Apr 6, 2011

I had no idea AL was part free/part slave. Or do you just have more than your quota of ignorant cops?

eye95 · Apr 6, 2011

Gunslinger said:
I had no idea AL was part free/part slave. Or do you just have more than your quota of ignorant cops?

We have more than our quota of ignorant cops and prosecutors. Also, we have confusing laws that seem to prohibit OC. However, court rulings in AL have clearly established that OC is lawful. Any municipality/county/department/prosecutor worth a flip can do the research and determine the lawful nature of OC beyond any doubt. Any who do not are incompetent, lazy, in denial, or all three.

Because of the section we call "dash 52," I was on OCDO about a month before I was finally convinced that OC in Alabama was lawful--thanks to Mike for making the law clear. Folks whose profession is the law should be able to go through this process in about an hour.

AirBear · Apr 6, 2011

Just a reminder, under Alabama law, notice of intent to file suit for false arrest, must be made within 6 months of the arrest, not 6 months after being found not guilty.

stuckinchico · Apr 6, 2011

eye95 said:
Actually, if we carry in numbers, there is something they can do. It is unlawful to demonstrate in Alabama while armed.

Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering

Daylen · Apr 6, 2011

Statute or Constitutional law and Common law have kept OC legal. It seems attempts were made in Codified law to make all forms of carry illegal, but the courts looked to common and constitutional law on how to rule. The net result is its a bit confusing at first glance, but OC is legal.

eye95 · Apr 6, 2011

stuckinchico said:
Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering

The implication was that the "carry in numbers" was in response to what the LEOs have done. That would be a demonstration. I will not participate nor would I condone breaking the law in that way.

BTW, we already get together to do the things you suggest, just not in public by way of protesting unlawful arrests.

mattwestm · Apr 6, 2011

WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...

eye95 · Apr 6, 2011

mattwestm said:
WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...

Actually, had the chief and the prosecutor been right on the law, that email would have impressed me with the civil way in which the law is enforced for non-violent misdemeanors. That they are so wrong on the law betrays their unprofessionalism.

david.ross · Apr 7, 2011

eye95,

Do you have a contact number or could you give me a call regarding this incident?

eye95 · Apr 8, 2011

insane.kangaroo said:
eye95,

Do you have a contact number or could you give me a call regarding this incident?

I have opened up my PM inbox. You can PM me.

After some bad experiences with malicious posters on other boards, I am very guarded with my personal information.

Kirbinator · Apr 8, 2011

stuckinchico said:
Who says its a demonstration??? Its just a bunch of good ol boys just getting together to have a good time, maybe pickup some trash, Interact with citizens, help an elderly person cross the road.

Demonstration to my understanding is with signs, chanting etc etc. not just a bunch of citizens having a gathering

If you're airing grievances, it's demonstration. If you're making a(n orderly) disturbance, it's a demonstration. If you're just sitting and drinking coffee and talking about cars or carbines, it's a peaceable assembly.

Kirbinator · Apr 8, 2011

mattwestm said:
WTF, the chief sent him an email saying he had a warrant out for his arrest? How professional...

Thanks to the way Alabama's laws are written, that's about as friendly as one can hope for. From this day on, until he has turned himself in, he can expect a knock on the door or to be stopped at any point while driving and be summarily arrested and extradited.

I'd love to know what "competent" Judge signed that warrant.

77zach · Apr 9, 2011

I'd write back and politely explain that I know the law, and that I will sue him personally for official oppression. What is it the statists say? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

The Downside of Expanding OC in Alabama

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