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Thread: Legality of leaving a LOADED gun in a SECURED container in car at scool

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    Legality of leaving a LOADED gun in a SECURED container in car at scool

    I had thought that the changes last year allowed the leaving of a loaded firearm in a "SECURED container or compartment" in a motor vehicle while at an elementary school. But the only reference I can find is

    § 18.2-308.B.10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

    But this seams to apply only when one "is carrying a handgun" which would not be the case, and "while in a personal, private motor vehicle" which would also not be the case after exiting the vehicle.

    So that would mean we are back to the old,

    § 18.2-308.1.B (paragraph two) (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

    So is the gun required to be unloaded or not when left SECURED in car in the school parking lot during let's say a parent teacher conference?

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    You cannot bring a firearm onto K-12 school property without a CHP. Even if you have a CHP, you cannot leave it unattended in the vehicle no matter what condition it's in.

    YOU MUST REMAIN IN THE VEHICLE WITH THE FIREARM!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    I have a CHP.

    I am not sure about your interpretation. My recollection from when this was discussed some time ago that "possesses" does not require physical holding, but the more general sense.
    Last edited by Fenris; 04-06-2011 at 08:32 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    You cannot bring a firearm onto K-12 school property without a CHP. Even if you have a CHP, you cannot leave it unattended in the vehicle no matter what condition it's in. YOU MUST REMAIN IN THE VEHICLE WITH THE FIREARM!

    I think the OP is getting confused also say like if you go to a hospital and they say you must leave your gun in the car?

    I thought CHP holders could keep a handgun in their car locked in a box and unloaded on school grounds?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 04-06-2011 at 08:44 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    This link will break in the next couple months. Speakers are Philip Van Cleave and 2aforall.

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    Last edited by t33j; 04-06-2011 at 08:47 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    QUOTE: VCDL Alert 5-24-2011
    MOTOR VEHICLES AND VESSELS

    For those who do not have a CHP, starting July 1 they can have a loaded handgun with them concealed in their motor vehicle or vessel as long as the handgun is secured in a container (such as a zipped bag, closed gun case, closed briefcase, etc.) or in a compartment (glovebox, console, etc.).

    NOTE: Remember that if you don't have a CHP, you generally can't carry a handgun in such a closed container OUTSIDE of your motor vehicle or vessel.

    K-12 SCHOOLS

    The new vehicle carry law, above, has an additional benefit for BOTH CHP holders and non-CHP holders. Under the law effective July 1, a loaded handgun can be kept in a secured container or a secured compartment in a motor vehicle while on K-12 school property.

    The new vehicle carry law (18.2-308 B 10) is in the list of general exemptions from the concealed weapon law. Police officers and Commonwealth Attorneys, for example, are listed in 18.2-308 B. The key is that in the third paragraph of the K-12 school weapons law (18.2-308.1) it says that anyone exempted from the concealed weapon law is also exempted from the ban on guns on K-12 school property.

    Thus, as long as your loaded handgun is in a secured compartment or a secured container BEFORE you pull onto school property and REMAINS SECURED in that compartment or container UNTIL AFTER you pull off the property, you are legal.

    In case those of you with CHPs are wondering why you can't carry outside of your vehicle on K-12 school property, that's because the CHP wording (18.2-308 D) is NOT in the list of exemptions to the concealed weapon law (18.2-308 B and 18.2-308 C). Instead, you can think of your CHP as a "get out of jail free" card. You are not actually exempted from the concealed carry law, but you have an affirmative defense against any prosecution.

    I think we should be working to exempt CHP holders from the concealed weapon law.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Ed,

    You are my hero. Thanks. I couldn't remember the way it worked.

    School/gun rules give me nightmares.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    QUOTE: VCDL Alert 5-24-2011

    Ed, ???? VCDL Alert 5-24-2011 ??? Don't you mean 2010?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Ed, ???? VCDL Alert 5-24-2011 ??? Don't you mean 2010?
    With Ed's assistance I did find the VCDL Alert. Mine has a date of 5-21-2010. But I could never have found it without Ed's response lighting the way.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    With Ed's assistance I did find the VCDL Alert. Mine has a date of 5-21-2010. But I could never have found it without Ed's response lighting the way.
    +1
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Ed, ???? VCDL Alert 5-24-2011 ??? Don't you mean 2010?
    I do/did. Listen to what I mean not what I say
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    This link will break in the next couple months. Speakers are Philip Van Cleave and 2aforall.

    glovebox.mp3
    I didn't have that much to say, and I could barely hear myself.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Somebody want to clarify what impact there is if you are carrying in VA with an out of state permit? I remember the GFSZA saying you must be permitted as an in state resident but not sure that affects the laws discussed here.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Cool The Constitution of Virginia

    Is my permit.
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    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    You cannot bring a firearm onto K-12 school property without a CHP. Even if you have a CHP, you cannot leave it unattended in the vehicle no matter what condition it's in.

    YOU MUST REMAIN IN THE VEHICLE WITH THE FIREARM!
    Neither of your statements are accurate. There are circumstances whereby a person can bring a firearm onto K-12 without a concealed permit



    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
    ... The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; [...] (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; [...] (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. ...

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    MOTOR VEHICLES AND VESSELS

    I think we should be working to exempt CHP holders from the concealed weapon law.
    Optimally, remove schools from the list of prohibited places.

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