Do we really want constitutional carry?

Now, I know this thread title probably gives you the idea that I support a license to do a constitutional right. I DO NOT. I was reading up on some gun laws last night and found the GFSZA. This law is ridiculous. It states that ...

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.


(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

Okay, so, in order to be in compliance with the federal law, we must obtain a permit from the state in which the school is located, and the state must have law enforcement authorities verify that the individual is eligible to receive a permit. This brings me to the first possible issue: Does FL have law enforcement authorities check permit applications? Some states don't. (Forgive my ignorance, I do not live in FL yet) If we were to have constitutional carry, it would virtually eliminate legal carry within city limits, where there are MANY schools, because no one would have a permit. Furthermore, if you plan on taking a road trip somewhere, chances are, you don't have a permit from every state you are going to be traveling through. There is a decent chance that you will be breaking a federal law, if you get off on an exit for a hotel or food, as there is probably a school somewhere. I think we need to focus on changing the federal law, before we move for constitutional carry. What are your thoughts?

Pure clutter. Most of this bedwetter crap is nothing but clutter. Prevents nothing. Here... try this: Firearms shall remain holstered/slung at all time. 'Unnecessary and careless handling or discharge of any firearm withing the boundaries of "X" is a Class 6 Felony punishible by "Y". There... pretty much understandable.

I completely agree. I feel sorry for you, since you live in AZ. "Felonies" are probably committed every 5 minutes there...Lol

Of course we want constitutional carry! We just want to have the evil Federal Gun Free Scheel Zone Act repealed first :banana:!
And/or still let every state give permits - for only this exact purpose-, just not required for carry otherwise. maybe nation-wide reciprocity of state permits would fix this, by making any one state's the same as any other's?
And/or everyone move to rural areas and/or homeschool/private school their kids, to show them how we feel about 'gun free schools.'

Yes.

Yes, we do.

I wonder how many felonies and misdemeanors are committed in Fl every day by people picking kids up at the local government reeducation camp "school". I'd say thousands each day throughout the state.

Yeah, I'm all for constitutional carry, don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that we need to repeal the federal nazi laws, so they don't become a problem when we do get constitutional carry.

Permits, where still required, should be available as a pad of blank forms. You tear one off, fill in your name, and put it in your wallet. No expiration date. Lack of a permit on your person should not be prima facia evidence of no permit.

Once this system is in place for a while it would be good evidence to defeat the ridiculous GFSZA.

Here Lets get Congress to do at least this:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm [Strike]is [/Strike]HAS A [Strike]licensed [/Strike]LICENSE to do so THAT IS RECOGNIZED IF NEEDED by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

There was that so hard... Oh yeah with our government it would be

Golden Eagle said:

Here Lets get Congress to do at least this:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm [Strike]is [/Strike]HAS A [Strike]licensed [/Strike]LICENSE to do so THAT IS RECOGNIZED IF NEEDED by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

There was that so hard... Oh yeah with our government it would be

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How about this one? Plain ol' Constitutional Carry, revoke the 1000ft "magic shield" around schools in the FGFSZA, and federal preemption of all state, local, and private policies against firearms securely enclosed in vehicles anywhere? That would pretty much take care of everything...

KeepShootin said:

Okay, so, in order to be in compliance with the federal law, we must obtain a permit from the state in which the school is located...

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How are people in Vermont carrying (VT does not issue permits but allows unlicensed OC and CC)?

Kingfish said:

How are people in Vermont carrying (VT does not issue permits but allows unlicensed OC and CC)?

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In the eyes of the feds, they are carrying illegally. GFSZA is not a heavily enforced law. There have been 8-10 cases since 1995. However, I don't want to be one of the unlucky ones that gets prosecuted. I won't vote for constitutional carry until everything at the federal level is fixed.

Even with the permit you are still technically boogered if you discharge the firearm, even if you're shooting to save a bus load of nuns.


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In AZ permits are still available for things like;

1) GFSZ
2) Carry in Restaurants that serve alcohol (yes it's ironic that we have constitutional carry but can't carry in restaurants that serve alcohol)
3) Reciprocity

I don't think we enforce GFSZ without mitigating circumstances. I mentioned it in another thread, in Mesa we have a gun store literrally across the street from a school and the police don't stand outside arresting everyone who comes and goes with a firearm.

sharkey said:

In AZ permits are still available for things like;

1) GFSZ
2) Carry in Restaurants that serve alcohol (yes it's ironic that we have constitutional carry but can't carry in restaurants that serve alcohol)
3) Reciprocity

I don't think we enforce GFSZ without mitigating circumstances. I mentioned it in another thread, in Mesa we have a gun store literrally across the street from a school and the police don't stand outside arresting everyone who comes and goes with a firearm.

View attachment 5645

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Hmmm ... I didn't know that. That's very interesting information. On another note, I was told that police can't enforce federal laws, they can only enforce state laws. Is this true?

KeepShootin said:

Hmmm ... I didn't know that. That's very interesting information. On another note, I was told that police can't enforce federal laws, they can only enforce state laws. Is this true?

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Ever heard of the federal government suing AZ for enforcing federal laws?

As someone on this forum mentioned bank robbery is a federal crime but the local police will still arrest for it.

Arizona has a law that basically says if you legally own the gun you are considered to have a permit. So really Arizona kinda doesn't have "permitless" carry but this was only to get around the GFSZ. This same topic was brought up in Vermonts forum, apparently in Vermont it's just not something they enforce. Also it is my understanding vehicle carry is legal in FL without a permit. Well those ppl are in violation everytime they are within 1000 feet of a school and I don't think any of them are being convicted. I could be wrong tho.

Also tech if you have a permit from let's say Michigan and are carrying in FL or any other state that my recognize their permit, anytime that person s within 1000 ft of a school they're breaking the law because their permit was not issued by the state they are in.

The Federal GFSZ is patently unconstitutional and someday will be overturned, if not repealed. I for one, wouldn't hold up Constitutional Carry over a law that isn't enforced. Florida really needs Constitutional Carry. I do think that over the next several years, the Constitutional Carry movement will pick up even more steam. It is only a matter of time before it catches on like the trend towards Shall Issue.

OC4me said:

The Federal GFSZ is patently unconstitutional and someday will be overturned, if not repealed. I for one, wouldn't hold up Constitutional Carry over a law that isn't enforced. Florida really needs Constitutional Carry. I do think that over the next several years, the Constitutional Carry movement will pick up even more steam. It is only a matter of time before it catches on like the trend towards Shall Issue.

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I disagree. We're only sliding by on Green because it appeases the Statists; which Florida's population is almost 100% comprised of.

I look forward to the day when I eat my words. But I'm will willing to bet I'll die before that day comes. Most likely, at the hands of said Statists.

A year ago there were 2 states with constitutional carry. This year there will be 6 or 7 depending on what happens with Wisconsin (az,wy,mt,nh). Id and maybe Ut will be in the next 2 years. That's a pretty good start.