Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Fredericksburg City CHP requirements

  1. #1
    Regular Member CaptainCharles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fredericksburg City, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70

    Fredericksburg City CHP requirements

    Hello all,

    Tried a search, but got mixed results. I am moving from King George County, where I hold a valid CHP, to Fredericksburg City. After calling about what I needed to do when my permit was up for renewal in November, I was told I would have to submit a new package to Fred. City, including fingerprints. In other words, instead of renewing an existing permit, I have to submit for a new permit all over again.

    Not an expert on VA law, and not sure if preemption plays a part here. Just asking if this seems out of place, or does state law allow for jurusdictions to have different requirements for the permitting process?

    Thanks
    CC

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCharles View Post
    Hello all,

    Tried a search, but got mixed results. I am moving from King George County, where I hold a valid CHP, to Fredericksburg City. After calling about what I needed to do when my permit was up for renewal in November, I was told I would have to submit a new package to Fred. City, including fingerprints. In other words, instead of renewing an existing permit, I have to submit for a new permit all over again.

    Not an expert on VA law, and not sure if preemption plays a part here. Just asking if this seems out of place, or does state law allow for jurusdictions to have different requirements for the permitting process?

    Thanks
    CC
    I am a fairly frequent visitor to the clerk's office there, and while it's been a while since I have discussed CHPs with them, I'm fairly sure that if they are wrong (which it would appear in this case) it's not intentionally so.

    Code says you may submit your renewal request up to 180 days before expiration. Would that put you in a window to submit your renewal while you are still in KG, then just change the address after the new one is issued? (You may need to add a note asking them to hold it for you rather than mailing it to your old address.)

    If that does not work, I would print out the portion of the law that covers renewals, and ask the clerk (not the ladies who work out front) to look it over and show you where it says you have to submit as new.

    This does bring up an interesting sticking point, if KG does not require prints, but the city does, then that would seem to be a slight discrepancy in how the law handles renewals after a move.

    It is still on my list of things to do to mount a concerted effort to get the city to drop the prints requirement.

    TFred

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    I read over the code a little more carefully. It appears to me that Fredericksburg may not require you to submit fingerprints if you already have a permit.

    Here's the code.

    If you read Subsection I, on renewals, part of it says this:

    "I. Persons who previously have held a concealed handgun permit shall be issued, upon application as provided in subsection D, ..."

    Of course subsection D is the main "how to apply for a CHP" subsection, which covers the whole fingerprint debacle.

    Buried in subsection D, we find:

    "However, no local ordinance shall require an applicant to submit to fingerprinting if the applicant has an existing concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this section and is applying for a new five-year permit pursuant to subsection I."

    It says nothing about whether or not your existing permit had required you to submit fingerprints.

    You have an existing permit. You are applying for a renewal. Fingerprints are off the table.

    That is what I would show the clerk.

    TFred

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    It's also clear in the City's code:

    Fredericksburg Municiple Code Chapter 54

    You have to click on the link to 54-20, Concealed weapon permits (oops), where it says:

    (b) In addition, applicants who are not renewing a current permit shall submit to fingerprinting by the Fredericksburg Police Department.

    I'll stop posting now...

    TFred

  5. #5
    Regular Member CaptainCharles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fredericksburg City, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    Thanks TFred! This is most helpful. While I do not opose submitting for fingerprints, seeing that I already have a permit, I dont think I should have to submit a new application, as if I havent had one at all.

    Her explanation was that since the county I hold my current permit in had less restrictive requirements than the City, I had to apply anew for a City permit.

    I will go down Monday with the cited info and see how it goes. If they press it, may just go with an out of state option and bypass VA permit process all together.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCharles View Post
    Thanks TFred! This is most helpful. While I do not opose submitting for fingerprints, seeing that I already have a permit, I dont think I should have to submit a new application, as if I havent had one at all.

    Her explanation was that since the county I hold my current permit in had less restrictive requirements than the City, I had to apply anew for a City permit.

    I will go down Monday with the cited info and see how it goes. If they press it, may just go with an out of state option and bypass VA permit process all together.
    The problem with her explanation is that it has no basis in the law. They are very nice in there, and have been very helpful to me over the past couple of years, but they do need to follow the law.

    As I mentioned, I'd ask to see the clerk, with printouts of both the state and local code in hand. The clerk is the one who should be handling those decisions. After that, I don't know what the process would be. Most likely they would reject your application as incomplete, so you can't follow the "denied" process as outlined in the code.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Catlett, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,134
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCharles View Post

    If they press it, may just go with an out of state option and bypass VA permit process all together.
    Don't do that, FORCE them to abide by the law. Otherwise, they'll just screw the next person who comes along as well...

    Roscoe
    Last edited by roscoe13; 04-08-2011 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member CaptainCharles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fredericksburg City, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70
    Just got off the phone with the Deputy CLerk, whom I talked to before, and shared my new found information with her. She asked what my point of contention was, and I advised her that as a valid permit holder, I was not required by law to submit as a new applicant, and that I was not required by law to submit fingerprints as a part of the renewal.

    She stated that she was telling that if my permit was expired, I would have to submit as a new applicant, but agreed that as a valid, current, permit holder, I did not.

    The interesting thing is, in our first conversation, she made no mention of "Expired" permits, ect. Her reason was clearly stated that "because King George county did not require fingerprints, and Fred City did, I would have to submit as a new applicant." She of course denied this, but we finished the conversation agreeing that fingerprints were not required as long as the current permit was not expired, and I would be processed as a renewal rather than a new applicant.

    Thank you all for your assistance. If you live in Fred City, be careful when enquiring about renewing.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    I have a plan to try to get this fixed... I guess I should move it closer to the top of my "to do" list.

    TFred

  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    Yes, beware what the clerks tell you. Ours, Stafford Co., just outside the F-burg city limits told us we had to photocopy our VA-driver's license and send that in. Total bravo sierra.

    No fingerprinting, though, at any time, now in Stafford.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Yes, beware what the clerks tell you. Ours, Stafford Co., just outside the F-burg city limits told us we had to photocopy our VA-driver's license and send that in. Total bravo sierra.

    No fingerprinting, though, at any time, now in Stafford.
    Is this a recent change?

    TFred

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Va, ,
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCharles View Post
    Just got off the phone with the Deputy CLerk, whom I talked to before, and shared my new found information with her. She asked what my point of contention was, and I advised her that as a valid permit holder, I was not required by law to submit as a new applicant, and that I was not required by law to submit fingerprints as a part of the renewal.

    She stated that she was telling that if my permit was expired, I would have to submit as a new applicant, but agreed that as a valid, current, permit holder, I did not.

    The interesting thing is, in our first conversation, she made no mention of "Expired" permits, ect. Her reason was clearly stated that "because King George county did not require fingerprints, and Fred City did, I would have to submit as a new applicant." She of course denied this, but we finished the conversation agreeing that fingerprints were not required as long as the current permit was not expired, and I would be processed as a renewal rather than a new applicant.

    Thank you all for your assistance. If you live in Fred City, be careful when enquiring about renewing.
    Some people find it dificult to say "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was not exactly right.".

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Islamabad, Pakistan
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Yes, beware what the clerks tell you. Ours, Stafford Co., just outside the F-burg city limits told us we had to photocopy our VA-driver's license and send that in. Total bravo sierra.

    No fingerprinting, though, at any time, now in Stafford.
    I'm on my third permit from Stafford, my wife is on her second permit and I have never heard of the copy of the drivers license requirement before. Stafford used to require fingerprints back around '99 but has done away with fingerprinting since then. Badger, if it was due to your actions to nip the clerks requirement for a DL copy in the bud, my thanks to you.
    Apologies to the OP for taking this thread off topic.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602
    You are NOT required to get a new permit just because you move - the existing one w/old address is still valid. It is solely a convenience for you.

    "K1. The clerk of a circuit court that issued a valid concealed handgun permit shall, upon presentation of the valid permit and proof of a new address of residence by the permit holder, issue a replacement permit specifying the permit holder's new address. The clerk of court shall forward the permit holder's new address of residence to the State Police. The State Police may charge a fee not to exceed $5, and the clerk of court issuing the replacement permit may charge a fee not to exceed $5. The total amount assessed for processing a replacement permit pursuant to this subsection shall not exceed $10, with such fees to be paid in one sum to the person who accepts the information for the replacement permit. ."
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    Note that it would NOT be the Frederiksburg clerk's responsibility, but that of the former place of residency.

    Also, even with when applying for a new permit with an expired permit, such is NOT a new application, but is still a renewal app.

    "I. Persons who previously have held a concealed handgun permit shall be issued, upon application as provided in subsection D, and upon receipt by the circuit court of criminal history record information as provided in subsection D, a new five-year permit unless it is found that the applicant is subject to any of the disqualifications set forth in subsection E. Persons who previously have been issued a concealed handgun permit pursuant to subsection D shall not be required to appear in person to apply for a new five-year permit pursuant to this subsection, and the application for the new permit may be submitted via the United States mail."
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Henrico County ,
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    Some people find it dificult to say "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was wro", "I was not exactly right.".
    Some people? A lot of people. I've never understood this. Maybe I am just an outlier, but I have always considered it somewhat of a badge of honor to be able to quickly and politely admit I am wrong upon evidence - and this is regardless of who has "proven me wrong". I wouldn't care if it was a teenager or someone I didn't particularty care for or one of my employees.

    Still, a lot happens in a conversation and in my experience it's not unusual at all for two good people to walk away with a slightly different understanding - the important thing here is that the employee understands the law, and it sounds like she does.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711
    There is no reason to get a new permit or update the address - the current permit is good until expiration. When it expires or near expiration, then apply for a new one. My opinion is that an "existing" permit is just that - one you still have even if expired, thus exempting you from fingerprint requirements (if any), and training.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Is this a recent change?

    TFred
    Oh, just saw this. I was confused. I live in Spotsylvania Co NOT Stafford. No printing, just notary-signed copy of 'diploma' from the HG-Safety course and $50, by the book.

    Again, sorry for the confusion. Not Stafford, but Spotsylvania Co.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Oh, just saw this. I was confused. I live in Spotsylvania Co NOT Stafford. No printing, just notary-signed copy of 'diploma' from the HG-Safety course and $50, by the book.

    Again, sorry for the confusion. Not Stafford, but Spotsylvania Co.
    No biggie. Stafford does not appear to have a printing requirement, and I actually remember when Spotsy rescinded theirs a couple years ago.

    Thanks!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •