t33j
Regular Member
Having said that, I agree with G.S. The section could definitely be worded better to reflect what I think their intent was though.
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Open Carry inside a vehicle? What is correct?
- Thread starter ryan7068
- Start date
Having said that, I agree with G.S. The section could definitely be worded better to reflect what I think their intent was though.
so, to return to the title of the thread .. what is allowed or not allowed when carrying in a vehicle? For instance (and I'm not saying I've done this because the only one I have is used on my hip) could a person securely mount a SERPA holster to the top of their dash and keep a handgun there while driving and be within the law? Or does OC in a vehicle mean you either leave it on the seat next to you or wear it on your person?
The concept can be confusing, but OC is not dependent on where the observer is or where you are. The deciding factor is how you are carrying it. If you are wearing/carrying the holstered handgun so that it would be readily recognizable as a gun by common observation you are OCing. If you are in a car, in a building, behind a sign, in a booth or whatever; you are still OCing.
I have been in a traffic accident, stopped for minor infraction (no ticket), been seen exiting my truck by LEOs, and been at sobriety check points all while OCing in my vehicle. No problems associated with it.
To answer the Serpa to the dash question - yes you could, but when you leave the vehicle the Serpa, if left there, might attract attention. That would not be my preference anyway.
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Thanks for the clarification
Not my intention to do it .. just used it as an example to ask if it would be legal to display the handgun on the dash without getting the comments about it sliding everywhere when you take corners too quickly. Far cheaper in my car to just put it in the open center dashtop storage with the grip poking out and up slightly
Not my intention to do it .. just used it as an example to ask if it would be legal to display the handgun on the dash without getting the comments about it sliding everywhere when you take corners too quickly. Far cheaper in my car to just put it in the open center dashtop storage with the grip poking out and up slightly
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chammer
Regular Member
Open Carry in a Vehicle?
I have been attempting to research this for the past couple days, and was looking for some assistance. I've found, via Google, posts that refer back to this forum and a couple others from people stating that open carry while in a vehicle is legal. However, I would prefer to find something specifically stated in Virginia law that pertains to this and denotes how the weapon is to be legally open carried (loaded or must be unloaded).
What I've found per law are the following two articles:
Virginia Code 18.2-308
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
Virginia State Constitution Article I, Section 13
http://legis.state.va.us/laws/search/constitution.htm
18.2-308 has nothing stating anything other than weapon must be unloaded and properly secured in a case basically.
State Constitution Article I, Section 13 is only telling me that my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon which seems redundant to the 2nd Amendment.
Both articles were either produced from my search, or referenced by others, but as stated previously...neither explicitly seem to provide information on open carrying.
This page:
http://opencarry.org/va.html
...also states that it is allowed, but does not cite a reference or what the status of the firearm has to be.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?35009-Open-Carry-in-Car
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Can-I-carry-in-a-holster-on-my-hip-in-my-Jeep
and...
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?51878-Car-carry
...were the posts I've found that keep popping up, and the first case law reference on the 2nd thread seems to help a little. The third is the most promising with proper back and forth, and what appears to be clarification. Even someone stating that carrying holstered as if you were open carrying and just sitting down in a seat would not be considered concealed. I would prefer doing that as I don't like the idea of my gun just laying in the seat, especially in the event I would need to make an emergency stop and the gun goes flying:
I understand that laws are there to provide what one may not do, and basically anything not prohibited is permissible (generally I suppose). However, again based on what I found, 18.2-308 seems to prohibit open carry while in a vehicle by stating how one MUST carry a firearm when not a CCW permit holder (which I am not currently, but am working on getting ASAP) as stated in sections 3, 4, and 5:
...and even that seems like it's telling me I can't carry unless I'm going to a range, gun exhibition, and/or to have the firearm repaired.
I'm just really unsure of how to read all of this, and I think that's kind of the point. Make it confusing so as to trick the person into believing one thing only to have them commit a "crime" so that they can legally disarm you. I really don't wish to do anything to jeopardize my 2nd Amendment right, especially when I'm just now starting to exercise it. Have been around and shot guns almost my whole life, but have either used other peoples guns or rented from ranges until 2 weeks ago when I bought my first. I definitely don't wish it to be my last, however.
Basically I'm looking for something a bit more concrete than "well, my friend said it was ok..." sort of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
On a side note, and placing (hopefully sound) faith in the posts I referenced, I did open carry today. After leaving the shooting range I placed the gun (full mag, but no round chambered) in my passenger seat and ran to Bass Pro Shops in Hampton for ammo, and Zero's in Hampton for lunch before returning home. At each place I parked, holstered the weapon while in the car, and proceeded to do what I needed to do. Both places without any incident and no one that seemed to noticed even cared. It was my first time open carrying, and was pretty neat to be able to do that...legally. Although, I was shaking like a leaf as If I were doing something wrong the entire time lol. :lol:
I have been attempting to research this for the past couple days, and was looking for some assistance. I've found, via Google, posts that refer back to this forum and a couple others from people stating that open carry while in a vehicle is legal. However, I would prefer to find something specifically stated in Virginia law that pertains to this and denotes how the weapon is to be legally open carried (loaded or must be unloaded).
What I've found per law are the following two articles:
Virginia Code 18.2-308
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
Virginia State Constitution Article I, Section 13
http://legis.state.va.us/laws/search/constitution.htm
18.2-308 has nothing stating anything other than weapon must be unloaded and properly secured in a case basically.
State Constitution Article I, Section 13 is only telling me that my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon which seems redundant to the 2nd Amendment.
Both articles were either produced from my search, or referenced by others, but as stated previously...neither explicitly seem to provide information on open carrying.
This page:
http://opencarry.org/va.html
...also states that it is allowed, but does not cite a reference or what the status of the firearm has to be.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?35009-Open-Carry-in-Car
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Can-I-carry-in-a-holster-on-my-hip-in-my-Jeep
and...
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?51878-Car-carry
...were the posts I've found that keep popping up, and the first case law reference on the 2nd thread seems to help a little. The third is the most promising with proper back and forth, and what appears to be clarification. Even someone stating that carrying holstered as if you were open carrying and just sitting down in a seat would not be considered concealed. I would prefer doing that as I don't like the idea of my gun just laying in the seat, especially in the event I would need to make an emergency stop and the gun goes flying:
I understand that laws are there to provide what one may not do, and basically anything not prohibited is permissible (generally I suppose). However, again based on what I found, 18.2-308 seems to prohibit open carry while in a vehicle by stating how one MUST carry a firearm when not a CCW permit holder (which I am not currently, but am working on getting ASAP) as stated in sections 3, 4, and 5:
...and even that seems like it's telling me I can't carry unless I'm going to a range, gun exhibition, and/or to have the firearm repaired.
I'm just really unsure of how to read all of this, and I think that's kind of the point. Make it confusing so as to trick the person into believing one thing only to have them commit a "crime" so that they can legally disarm you. I really don't wish to do anything to jeopardize my 2nd Amendment right, especially when I'm just now starting to exercise it. Have been around and shot guns almost my whole life, but have either used other peoples guns or rented from ranges until 2 weeks ago when I bought my first. I definitely don't wish it to be my last, however.
Basically I'm looking for something a bit more concrete than "well, my friend said it was ok..." sort of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
On a side note, and placing (hopefully sound) faith in the posts I referenced, I did open carry today. After leaving the shooting range I placed the gun (full mag, but no round chambered) in my passenger seat and ran to Bass Pro Shops in Hampton for ammo, and Zero's in Hampton for lunch before returning home. At each place I parked, holstered the weapon while in the car, and proceeded to do what I needed to do. Both places without any incident and no one that seemed to noticed even cared. It was my first time open carrying, and was pretty neat to be able to do that...legally. Although, I was shaking like a leaf as If I were doing something wrong the entire time lol. :lol:
ProShooter
Regular Member
Laws prohibit things, like murder.
Find a law that entitles you to wear a green shirt on Fridays or to breathe air. There are no such laws. Since there is no law prohibiting OC, it is legal.
ETA - If you are interested, I teach a class that may help you understand these questions and laws: http://proactiveshooters.com/general-course-information-2/intro-to-concealed-carry-in-va/
Find a law that entitles you to wear a green shirt on Fridays or to breathe air. There are no such laws. Since there is no law prohibiting OC, it is legal.
ETA - If you are interested, I teach a class that may help you understand these questions and laws: http://proactiveshooters.com/general-course-information-2/intro-to-concealed-carry-in-va/
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ProShooter
Regular Member
One more note - that "no round chambered" thing will get you killed. (but that is covered in the class too!)
45acpForMe
Newbie
Welcome to the site Chammer!
You are discovering the frustration of trying to be a law abiding gun owner when the laws are convaluted and written in some form of greek. I read through the laws when I first started carrying and had "my" understanding until reading/posting here adjusted my interpretation. The forum is a great place to pose questions as well as dinners where you can rapid fire questions in person to others who have been through the same thing (or working through the same logic).
OC is fine in a vehicle with the recommended place in a holster on your person. There are other places that while legal may be silly to try like dashboards, seats, etc. My explorer has a raised wall area infront of the console that I occassionally lay down my BUG for access and comfort and if I come to a fast stop or turn suddenly it won't move.
One other thing to consider is the law change last year where you can store your loaded pistol in a "secured" container/compartment. Glovebox, center console, tupperware, briefcase etc as long as it closes securely. It does NOT have to be locked since the govenor ammended the bill correctly to get substitute secure for locked. That way since my glove box doesn't lock I can still use it if I want to. If you are going to be leaving your vehicle and your gun in your vehicle though I recommend putting it is some form of lock box/safe.
Read and re-read the laws and talk/post until you feel comfortable.
You are discovering the frustration of trying to be a law abiding gun owner when the laws are convaluted and written in some form of greek.
I read through the laws when I first started carrying and had "my" understanding until reading/posting here adjusted my interpretation. The forum is a great place to pose questions as well as dinners where you can rapid fire questions in person to others who have been through the same thing (or working through the same logic).OC is fine in a vehicle with the recommended place in a holster on your person. There are other places that while legal may be silly to try like dashboards, seats, etc. My explorer has a raised wall area infront of the console that I occassionally lay down my BUG for access and comfort and if I come to a fast stop or turn suddenly it won't move.
One other thing to consider is the law change last year where you can store your loaded pistol in a "secured" container/compartment. Glovebox, center console, tupperware, briefcase etc as long as it closes securely.
It does NOT have to be locked since the govenor ammended the bill correctly to get substitute secure for locked. That way since my glove box doesn't lock I can still use it if I want to. If you are going to be leaving your vehicle and your gun in your vehicle though I recommend putting it is some form of lock box/safe.Read and re-read the laws and talk/post until you feel comfortable.
chammer
Regular Member
Understood, but like I stated 18.2-308 seems to contradict open carry...at least in a vehicle. I understand that based on my reading it doesn't appear to be the case, but I would prefer something at the state level (law or otherwise) stating that yes, it's legal, and here's the proper way to open carry in a vehicle...
I am interested, however, it's a bit of a drive from where I'm at. I was looking for something more local and found a place about 6 miles away that runs a class every Thursday at 5:45pm. The site had only listed Saturday at 2pm as the time, and that's what I was prepared for, but was kicking myself when I found out I could have made the one last night easily. The Saturday 2pm class is for another location which would also be a bit of a drive for me.
I also ordered a copy of the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide based on reviews on the law explained very clearly. Expecting it to come in Tuesday which should also help, but I'm impatient and when I get set to learn or research something I really want to try and find the information NOW if you know what I mean.
One more note - that "no round chambered" thing will get you killed. (but that is covered in the class too!)
I understand this as well, however, based on range experience I'm a bit put off at having a round chambered at this point in time for a couple reasons. I'm currently carrying a Walther P22 and and have had a couple issues with ammo improperly discharging at the range. I don't mean typical .22 failure to feed or failure to eject. I've had one round literally seem to explode, tearing the back of the cartridge open and spitting fire through the ejection port. I have never seen this before, and for the first time I'm a bit put off at .22 ammo. Although I'm sure that the chances of an ammo incident while simply carrying are slim to none, and it did happen when I pulled the trigger...not on its own. I will state, that I've put about 1500 rounds through the gun with only that 1 major incident with the ammo, but it has still been enough to make me take a step back and ponder the "what if...?". Sad, but that's how I work.
Another reason is simply not understanding the law fully at this time. While I do understand that it's perfectly legal to carry loaded with a round in the chambered ready to rock and roll, not understanding the vehicle portion at this time is why I preferred to carry in the car today with the mag out and no chambered round. I would prefer not to fiddle with the gun while in public (even while in my car) so when holstered to exit my vehicle, I chose not to chamber a round (which I would then have to un-chamber and re-load into the magazine when back in my vehicle. This is one of my (many) reasons for obtaining the CCW permit. One less thing I don't have to worry about and can just let things be.
I understand that all of this is probably moot, and far from preferable, but at this time I would prefer to be safe rather than sorry.
are we doing it right?
§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon.....hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.
So with this, say my wife wanted to drive with my loaded, holstered pistol stored in the glovebox. She doesn't have a CHP, but seems it would be ok as I read it. She may lawfully possess a firearm, and it is in a secure container. It doesn't say anything about having to be unloaded (that I've found).
§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon.....hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.
So with this, say my wife wanted to drive with my loaded, holstered pistol stored in the glovebox. She doesn't have a CHP, but seems it would be ok as I read it. She may lawfully possess a firearm, and it is in a secure container. It doesn't say anything about having to be unloaded (that I've found).
chammer
Regular Member
Welcome to the site Chammer!
You are discovering the frustration of trying to be a law abiding gun owner when the laws are convaluted and written in some form of greek.
OC is fine in a vehicle with the recommended place in a holster on your person. There are other places that while legal may be silly to try like dashboards, seats, etc. My explorer has a raised wall area infront of the console that I occassionally lay down my BUG for access and comfort and if I come to a fast stop or turn suddenly it won't move.
One other thing to consider is the law change last year where you can store your loaded pistol in a "secured" container/compartment. Glovebox, center console, tupperware, briefcase etc as long as it closes securely.
Read and re-read the laws and talk/post until you feel comfortable.
Thanks for the welcome, 45acpForMe! I actually found this site while researching open carry in a vehicle. General open carry was easy enough...it's this whole vehicle thing that's got me a bit up in arms.
As stated in my original post, while I have enjoyed using and renting firearms most of my life, this is the first gun I have purchased and I want to ensure everything I do with it is in a legal manner. When purchasing I asked the salesman about transporting and it was he who told me that so long as ammo and gun were separated, I'd be fine. This wasn't an issue at first as I was just purchasing ammo at the range when I went. However, I have begun purchasing and transporting ammo with me so the past few times out to the range I put the gun in the trunk and ammo in the back seat. Again...just to be safe and ensure I am as legal as I possibly can be in the event of a traffic stop or other issue.
I had read (briefly) about the glove box thing as well, but is something I would never do. As I (and I'm sure most people) keep vehicle registration in there, reaching in to my glove box for my registration where a loaded pistol is also present is not something I would prefer to do in the presence of a police officer. :lol:
My dash is completely out of the question just because of how it is, and like my concerns for the seat and having to apply emergency braking, I would prefer a loaded gun not go sliding across my dash from left to right as I go around corners. Not to mention the possibilities of scratching my dash!
The best idea obviously would be to just have it remain on my person holstered, but that sits almost exactly on my side/hip area which is immediately covered by the seat belt. As referenced, it seems to be that this is OK, but I would want to be 100% before I did it. Which is why I'm here.
By the way, what are these dinners you speak of?
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
correct
45acpForMe
Newbie
I have a Walther P22 that I use to train my kids with and I don't like it much. They like it but it has had several FTF and other issues, which actually makes a good training tool to help my daughters clear the jam. As a self defense pistol I would absolutely not carry it.
Try something in 45acp, 40S&W, 9mm for self defense. Local ranges rent guns you can try to get a feel for what you can control.
I am sure someone can tout the wonders of their P22 but I have my youngest shooting .380 and my oldest shooting .45acp preparing them for a self defense gun/round.
Try something in 45acp, 40S&W, 9mm for self defense. Local ranges rent guns you can try to get a feel for what you can control.
I am sure someone can tout the wonders of their P22 but I have my youngest shooting .380 and my oldest shooting .45acp preparing them for a self defense gun/round.
"when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."
Sounds like having a seatbelt on is NOT trying to disguise the weapon. I'm not a lawyer, but that would be interesting in court though. "Your Honor, I feel this man was wearing his seat belt so he could hide his gun. Not to possibly protect him in an accident, but to hide his gun."
The dinners are usually stickied at the top of this sub forum, which i still need to go to.
welcome aboard btw
Sounds like having a seatbelt on is NOT trying to disguise the weapon. I'm not a lawyer, but that would be interesting in court though. "Your Honor, I feel this man was wearing his seat belt so he could hide his gun. Not to possibly protect him in an accident, but to hide his gun."
The dinners are usually stickied at the top of this sub forum, which i still need to go to.
welcome aboard btw
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45acpForMe
Newbie
By the way, what are these dinners you speak of?
They are my favorite part of OC-ing! Getting together with fellow OC-ers over dinner!
Anyone can schedule a dinner, you just create a thread with a date, time (usually 7pm to allow people to arrive after work or tunnel crossing) and a restaurant. Most people will confirm if they can make it but some always show up unannounced and some always have something more important come up last minute. I have scheduled some in the past where we have had as few as 4 people show up to around 60 people. If you choose a restaurant that can handle a large party it helps.
Some restaurants we frequent because they are good to us and sometimes we branch out and try something new. Rarely a restaurant will turn away OC-ers because a manager seeing 20-30 paying customers waiting to get in would be stupid to turn the business away. We don't advertise or ask if OC is ok beforehand.
We have had them at pizza places, golden coral, olive garden, Chili's, and other local restaurants. I am thinking of planning one at BD's Mongolian Grill in Hampton if I can ever get my schedule together. Try to put it in the future 1-3 weeks so people have time to notice, plan, attend.
The best part is you can talk guns, OC/CC, knives & long-guns (not banned like someplaces ;-) and peoples eyes won't glaze over like when I talk to some of my coworkers.
After talking guns for two hours the time flies and dinner is over before you know it.
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ProShooter
Regular Member
308 does not contradict OC. It merely talks about concealed carry and gives you an exemption to carrying in a secure compartment w/o a permit.
what kind of class is it? The class that I mentioned to you is not a CHP certifying class, but its more about the day to day info you'd need to know about carrying
I understand this as well, however, based on range experience I'm a bit put off at having a round chambered at this point in time for a couple reasons. I'm currently carrying a Walther P22 and and have had a couple issues with ammo improperly discharging at the range. I don't mean typical .22 failure to feed or failure to eject. I've had one round literally seem to explode, tearing the back of the cartridge open and spitting fire through the ejection port. I have never seen this before, and for the first time I'm a bit put off at .22 ammo. Although I'm sure that the chances of an ammo incident while simply carrying are slim to none, and it did happen when I pulled the trigger...not on its own. I will state, that I've put about 1500 rounds through the gun with only that 1 major incident with the ammo, but it has still been enough to make me take a step back and ponder the "what if...?". Sad, but that's how I work.
Wait...you are carrying a .22 for self defense? and a gun that has had numerous discharge issues? and you expect that to save your life?
Again, you are looking for something that isn't there. Nothing will tell you when to load or unload your gun. There is nothing in the law that addresses what you are looking for.
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chammer
Regular Member
Hehe...yea, I know. I didn't it purchase for a self-defense/carry weapon, however, at the moment it's all I have so for now it's what I will carry. As I've seen stated in relation to carrying it (and other such .22's) something is preferable to nothing.
I bought this as a choice between it and the Beretta NEOS for something cheap to properly learn technique and target shooting, as I understand ammo for larger calibers to be getting more and more expensive. I'm actually a huge fan of 9mm's, one in particular that I rented every time I went for about 3 or 4 years in a row, which was the Beretta Cougar. Was probably the only gun I fell in love with from the first shot, and still love (and wish I had one) to this day. I tried the .45 version at the time, but it just didn't have the same effect on me...so back to the 9mm version I went.
I understand now, however, that Beretta has turned over the Cougar to Stoeger, and Beretta's new version of it appears to be the Px4 Storm. Something I may consider, however, the more I look into Glock the more impressed I am with it. I tried a friends Glock out about...maybe 7 or 8 years ago. I believe it was the Glock 17 and I was not all that impressed. It just seemed way over hyped, and did not quite feel right. However, I am strongly considering either a 19 or 26 to be my main carry weapon once I obtain my concealed permit based on what I'm reading and watching (via YouTube) on both currently, and also based on that times change and it's possible that now that I know more it may work better for me. I will definitely try and rent one if I can to better able to decide.
Anyways, we did sidetrack a bit, but I do love the P22. I bought the 5" version and once broken in all the FTE and FTF's went away. However, I purchased the 3.4" barrel a couple days ago and was breaking it in yesterday and today. Sooooo many FTE's and FTF's once again which I'm hoping will also go away once a few more rounds cycle through it as was the case with the 5" barrel. With the 5" I actually went through one of those 36 grain/1280fps Winchester 555 bulk packs without a single FTE or FTF. I think maybe one or two rounds appeared to be duds though, and did not fire, but that is not the fault of the gun.
The best idea obviously would be to just have it remain on my person holstered, but that sits almost exactly on my side/hip area which is immediately covered by the seat belt. As referenced, it seems to be that this is OK, but I would want to be 100% before I did it. Which is why I'm here.
By the way, what are these dinners you speak of?
The problem you are facing regarding finding black letter law/Code of Va stating that OC is legal w/o a CHP is that it does not exist - neither is it restricted to those not otherwise disqualified. It is the absence of any statute declaring it illegal that makes such carry legal.
Note on the VCDL site advice is given as to where you should or should not CC or OC, Were OC a generally different problem - VCDL would be sure to point it out.
http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html
With certain unusual/rare exceptions, you may OC w/o a permit any place you may legally carry: in a vehicle (seat belt matters not), in a restaurant booth (strong side to the wall), in city halls and libraries. The test for OC is NOT from the perspective of the viewer, but whether is is hidden by the manner of your dress.
One of those exceptions is the General Assembly Bldg. where you may CC or OC, but only with a permit.
Think about how many of us on this forum, living in Va, OC 24/7 - that would be not be happening if there were problems with it.
Those dinners you asked about - check the stickies at the top of the Va forum regularly - the announcements are posted there. Come on out and see first hand for yourself.
TFred
Regular Member
As you are no doubt starting to figure out, often times one's first experience with these sorts of questions here at OCDO is like drinking from a fire hose through a straw.
Don't let it overwhelm you, it literally takes months of reading and studying to reach a point where you are comfortable that you have sufficient knowledge of the law related to carrying for self-defense. And then the next day you learn something new again!
My small point to add: Gun store sales-persons are notorious for giving bad legal advice... buy your gun from them, then run away!
TFred
chammer
Regular Member
I didn't say it did, only that it appears to. Which is why I am here...for clarification.
Understood, and is something I would love to go through, but the drive simply puts me off. There is actually a friend of a friend here closer by (http://www.tacticalshooting.com) that does a similar training course, and I am actually waiting on a response from him in regards to his training course and when it would be possible to attend. Am very impressed by what I see of it and him.
However, the class I am referring to taking either on a Thursday or tomorrow is one only for obtaining the concealed permit.
No, but as per my most recent reply, its all I have at the moment and so it's what I will carry. Obviously, and also per my most recent post, I will be looking for a proper carry weapon, but you have to work with what you've got. If put in a situation I'd feel better having it than not having it regardless of it being "just a .22". My grouping with it has been pretty good, and I'm confident that if the sight of my drawing and/or my firing of said gun does not scare the person(s) away, that I would be able to cause enough damage to slow them down either temporarily so that I may escape, or permanently.
I hope either way it's only something I have to think about, and not actually execute.
I am beginning to believe and understand that, but I hope you can understand where I am coming from. I have every desire to be as legal as I possibly can be, and both know and understand the laws so that I know when, what, and why such and such is either permitted, or prohibited.