Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 58

Thread: When to pull my gun out?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15

    When to pull my gun out?

    Hello everyone sorry if this topic has been covered but I'm about to apply for my cc permit in new Orleans and I want to know when I can pull my gun out?
    For example one night I was walking to my car going home coming off bourbon st. When I got jumped by 2 guys.they've been following me for 3 blocks and they were drunk talking smack and I heard one of the guys telling the other"do u want to se me smack the glasses of his face"instead of me just keep walking and shut my mouth I replied "I wish you F"en will"well guess what he did lol.so I swung and landed a punch to his head and kind of dazed him up and as soon as I turn around to his freind he tackels me.I fall to the ground and they start kicking me and thank god a passer by stoped and helped me out and they ran off.
    I would like to know (godforbid)if this happens again and I have my gun on me can I pull my gun out and scare them to get away?is that legal?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    PWC, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    78

    St Charles st

    Quote Originally Posted by moe24 View Post
    Hello everyone sorry if this topic has been covered but I'm about to apply for my cc permit in new Orleans and I want to know when I can pull my gun out?
    For example one night I was walking to my car going home coming off bourbon st. When I got jumped by 2 guys.they've been following me for 3 blocks and they were drunk talking smack and I heard one of the guys telling the other"do u want to se me smack the glasses of his face"instead of me just keep walking and shut my mouth I replied "I wish you F"en will"well guess what he did lol.so I swung and landed a punch to his head and kind of dazed him up and as soon as I turn around to his freind he tackels me.I fall to the ground and they start kicking me and thank god a passer by stoped and helped me out and they ran off.
    I would like to know (godforbid)if this happens again and I have my gun on me can I pull my gun out and scare them to get away?is that legal?
    I call BS. people where chasing you on Burbon ST and no cop was present? right, Even if I assume your story is true you should have run up to ST Charles, were you would find a cop or run into the trolley.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Unless you can learn to show better judgment, I'd say never. You have the right to carry, but having the right to do something and that something being the right thing to do are two different things.

    Folks who choose to be armed should objectively evaluate situations and choose actions based on producing the least amount of harm to other-than-bad-guys. I don't see objectivity in your thinking. I see rash and brash emotional puffery. That kind of thinking combined with carry will result in the firearm being used in a spitting contest rather than in a true defense situation.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by PWC_Glock View Post
    I call BS. people where chasing you on Burbon ST and no cop was present? right, Even if I assume your story is true you should have run up to ST Charles, were you would find a cop or run into the trolley.
    Umm ok
    I parked my car on rampart and iberville a block away from the projects were most of the parking garage are at.
    Run towards st charles or run into a trolley?I'm sorry but WTF are u talking about?do u even know were st charles is at?are u even from neworleans?st charles is on the other side of canal it dosent run towards burbon.
    Did u here about that gretna cop that got jumped on BOURBON few months ago and later died from his injuries?or all of those robberies,rapes and assaults that happens on and around bourbon?you probably were a clueless tourist that thinks it's safe out there.
    But whatever

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Unless you can learn to show better judgment, I'd say never. You have the right to carry, but having the right to do something and that something being the right thing to do are two different things.

    Folks who choose to be armed should objectively evaluate situations and choose actions based on producing the least amount of harm to other-than-bad-guys. I don't see objectivity in your thinking. I see rash and brash emotional puffery. That kind of thinking combined with carry will result in the firearm being used in a spitting contest rather than in a true defense situation.
    By true defense situation u mean don't pull it out unless u already have a gun pointed at you?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco signed HB 1097 into law today. HB 1097, by Representative Eric LaFleur (D-38)is NRA-backed legislation granting civil immunity to crime victims who lawfully use force, up to and including deadly force, to protect themselves against a violent attack.

    HB 1097 is the companion bill to HB 89 (also by Representative LaFleur), the Castle Doctrine bill, which created presumptions in law for the use of force against intruders in your home, car or place of business and explicitly states in law that you have no duty to retreat from criminal attack if you are in a place where you have a legal right to be.

    HB 89 was signed into law by the Governor on June 2. Both bills take effect on August 15.

    I also found this.I have the right to use my gun to protect my self aginst a violent criminal act.
    I take it getting jumped is a violent act.right?

  7. #7
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...dly-force.html

    The above might not answer your specific question but does discuss a similar situation and offers some insights of criteria that should be considered

  8. #8
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    If you have non-lethal options, you can avoid having to shoot someone.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 04-10-2011 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885
    I carry a gun everywhere, all the time. I would not go into a high crime area like without a very good reason, and then never alone. The very best gun fight is the one that never happens.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by moe24 View Post
    By true defense situation u mean don't pull it out unless u already have a gun pointed at you?
    No. I mean a situation were you are guiltless of instigation.

    I fear that you see the gun as a big tool to used in situations of mutual aggression. Responsible folks see the gun as one of several options (many of us view it as the last option) to be used for defense against aggression in which we are not a willing mutual participant.

    Folks who seem to be itching for trouble shouldn't carry. They have the right to carry, but I want nothing to do with them.

  11. #11
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by moe24 View Post
    ....I also found this.I have the right to use my gun to protect my self aginst a violent criminal act.
    I take it getting jumped is a violent act.right?
    If I was a jury member at your trial for some form of unlawful use of a firearm, the major problem I would have with your past situation as you explained it in your original post is you telling your assailant "I wish you F'en will" when he suggested attacking you. If you'd been carrying a firearm it is my understanding you would not be justified claiming self defense in using said firearm simply because you escalated the situation by openly inviting the other person to attack you. Your comment turned you into an aggressor even if you did end up the final victim.

    All that aside, I'm sorry to hear of anyone being assaulted, it's an unpleasant experience that I had to endure myself about 12 years ago when I was attacked in the street by 3 people.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    I carry a gun everywhere, all the time. I would not go into a high crime area like without a very good reason, and then never alone. The very best gun fight is the one that never happens.
    I understand but unfourtunalty I live in the city that's been the murder Capitol for the past 11years so it's not hard at all to to get caught up at the wrong place wrong time

  13. #13
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by moe24 View Post
    By true defense situation u mean don't pull it out unless u already have a gun pointed at you?
    He means not to provoke someone talking smack like you did. "I Wish you would..."
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    If you are going to carry.... you might consider attending a training class in your locality, that covers the laws that may be relevant for you. This can help you find a class that might be suitable:

    http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    No. I mean a situation were you are guiltless of instigation.

    I fear that you see the gun as a big tool to used in situations of mutual aggression. Responsible folks see the gun as one of several options (many of us view it as the last option) to be used for defense against aggression in which we are not a willing mutual participant.

    Folks who seem to be itching for trouble shouldn't carry. They have the right to carry, but I want nothing to do with them.
    I really don't see how u can refer to me as being itching for trouble when you don't even know me.I'm in fact a real nice person and if I ever haveto use my weapon I would be aiming for the leg or something cause I would hate to have to kill someone in self-defense because I believe in giving people 2nd chances.
    All I did was ask a question as to when to draw my weapon and the response I get from alot of other people is"you only use it as a last option"but when do you know it's you last option?that's more confusing than the self defense laws.
    As I mention earlier about the plain cloth cop that got jumped on bourbon That died from his injuries I think he would of not died if he pulled out his weapon to twarth his attackers.
    I'm not trying to argue with anyone here I just wanted some info thats all the laws around this subject is really confusing

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    If I was a jury member at your trial for some form of unlawful use of a firearm, the major problem I would have with your past situation as you explained it in your original post is you telling your assailant "I wish you F'en will" when he suggested attacking you. If you'd been carrying a firearm it is my understanding you would not be justified claiming self defense in using said firearm simply because you escalated the situation by openly inviting the other person to attack you. Your comment turned you into an aggressor even if you did end up the final victim.

    All that aside, I'm sorry to hear of anyone being assaulted, it's an unpleasant experience that I had to endure myself about 12 years ago when I was attacked in the street by 3 people.
    I don't feel like I escalated the situation by saying those words because it was gona happen regardless and I figured I had to say something to try and scare them off but I guess it didn't work out for me.
    Now if I was a jury sitting on a case like mines.not guilty all the Way

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    He means not to provoke someone talking smack like you did. "I Wish you would..."
    As I mentioned earlier it was going to happen regardless I felt the need to say something back to try and scare them off but i guess it didnt work

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    If you are going to carry.... you might consider attending a training class in your locality, that covers the laws that may be relevant for you. This can help you find a class that might be suitable:

    http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx
    Thank you and yes I will be attending a class.I just wanted to get a head start and gather as much info as I can

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...dly-force.html

    The above might not answer your specific question but does discuss a similar situation and offers some insights of criteria that should be considered
    Thanks good read

  20. #20
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    I know you're not arguing, so I'll state up front that neither am I, but my conscience has one or two comments about some things you said.

    I'm so far away from being any kind of expert on this that you wouldn't believe, I'm just saying what comes to my mind. Legally I may be wrong, I may be right, there are others here who know about this far more than I do

    You mention being a nice guy and shooting for the other person's leg so as to give them another chance. While I applaud your caring about other people what springs to mind is that you're now aiming at a much smaller target area so now have a much larger chance to miss. If I'm a bad guy and you shoot at my legs and miss then I'm on top of you 50/50 chance of overpowering you and getting your weapon. I'm pissed at you for firing at me so take a guess what I am thinking of doing next. But before you fired all I see is you pointing towards my leg .. bad guy thinks 'he doesnt know what he's doing, he's scared of his gun' . point it at his chest, bigger target area, more to hit, you're giving a clear message and a chance for the bad guy to reconsider whether to attack or not. Just like you, I never want to use any gun I ever own for anything other than target practice.

    You might not feel you escalated the situation with your attacker, but you did. It's hypothetical because you were unarmed at the time but IF you had been armed and IF you had responded to them with the same words AND you had gone on to shoot one of them to end the fight, a prosecutor will say that you stopped being the victim when you told your attackers to go ahead and try. Your aim when considering your final option (as well as the obvious one of protecting yourself) should be to do all you can to prevent the prosecutor having any loophole they can get you on and, by daring the other person to try, you opened yourself up to a whole lot of problems. Maybe a jury will see it your way, maybe they will be swayed by what I too consider a technicality, but wouldn't it be better if you'd done it all by the book and were told .. justifiable use. I understand your point of view, believe me, deep down I share it, but rules are rules and if you break the ones regarding use of deadly force you're looking at some very serious consequences.

    Here's hoping none of us are ever in that situation.

  21. #21
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,461
    This seems to me like a case of a group of guys offering/threatening to beat you up. You accepted their offer and they did it. At this point, you are a party to the fight. Any attempt to claim the use of deadly force as self defense would end you up in a 6x6 cell as a guest of the state.

    So to answer your question: "when to pull my gun out?" Never under the circumstances you described.

    The above is simply my opinion, not legal advice and worth every cent you paid for it.

  22. #22
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by moe24 View Post
    All I did was ask a question as to when to draw my weapon and the response I get from alot of other people is"you only use it as a last option"but when do you know it's you last option?
    It's your last option when you are in fear of death or serious bodily harm (consult your state's deadly force laws for exact wording and circumstances).

    So, the question is, when you said "I wish you F"en will", were you in fear for your life, or in fear of serious bodily harm? If so, that seems like an odd phrase to use when one is in fear for their life. If not, you have answered your own question.

    Again, not legal advice and given simply as my opinion.
    Last edited by buster81; 04-10-2011 at 03:51 PM.

  23. #23
    McX
    Guest
    my policy is; be innocent of instigation, retreat, retreat, retreat. it has served me well, though i admit at times it will make me appear to be a coward, no assailant has ever persued me when i retreated. perhapse because they know if they continue what waits for them.

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles County
    Posts
    23
    In your situation, under what you described. I would have never been able to pull a gun out and claim it in self defense. You would have been up $#*! creek without a paddle. Sorry. Get some training, education and experience under your belt first. Situational Awareness is your first defense to any probable bad encounter.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    15
    Ok well after hearing most of y'all saying I might of instigated it by saying "I wish u f'en will"I might of been wrong for doing that and it probably would of not looked good for me if I had to go to trial.but I swear it was gona happen regardless but I should of used my words carefully better yet not say anything at all.
    As far as retreat retreat retreat believe me I thought about just running into an open area but I don't know why I didn't I guess it probably would of hurt my pride.
    In the mean time I'm going to go get my little Taurus tcp 380 Tuesday because my glock is to big to carry and im going to go apply for my cc permit next week and I'll have a bunch of questions to ask the instructor on the laws and what not.
    Sorry if I pissed any of u off I didn't mean to sound ignorant I just wanted to know what's right and wrong as I'm not knowledgeable about these type of things but I guess things vary from state to state

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •