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Thread: Traveling to San Antonio for military training

  1. #1
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    Traveling to San Antonio for military training

    I have been reading a lot on this forum and was wondering if someone could break down everything I need to know to open carry. I did a search to see if anyone made a quick reference pamphlet but I couldn't find anything. I am a CCW holder in Nevada as well, if it matters.

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    Glad you're visiting Texas!

    The only time you'd be able to OC in Texas is when you're actually engaged in traveling, which is the process of getting from point A to point B; once you arrive at your destination in San Antonio, and for the duration of your stay there until you set out to leave, OC won't be a legal option. However, your Nevada license is good here in Texas (unlike ours in your state ), so you're all set to keep carrying concealed. The off-limits list, etc., for Texas is available at: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

    A note from my remembering about Nevada licenses - y'all are restricted to only carrying certain semi-autos while concealing with your license (correct me if I'm wrong, I think they're listed by serial number, right?); however, that doesn't apply here in Texas, since we don't have a parallel statute. If you have a semi-auto endorsement from Nevada, you can carry any semi-auto you want while you're here. Enjoy your stay!

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    It's listed by model and caliber... Because that makes any sense. lol.

    Man the laws are pretty strict in TX compared to NV. Do most bars that makes 51% of their income or more post signs or do I have to pull tax records? How many places post no firearm signs?

    I appreciate the info. It's going to be weird not open carrying....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryMike View Post
    It's listed by model and caliber... Because that makes any sense. lol.

    Man the laws are pretty strict in TX compared to NV. Do most bars that makes 51% of their income or more post signs or do I have to pull tax records? How many places post no firearm signs?

    I appreciate the info. It's going to be weird not open carrying....
    I wouldnt open carry in a bar while in Texas even if they dont have a sign. You would be supprised how many resturants with bars in the back have to signs on the resturant doors. It's because people simply dont know!
    We have a local Cafe that I eat at a lot. They will sell you a beer with you lunch, but far from 51%. Now I dont have a CHL simply because I wont pay Texas for my birth right, with that said 30.06 and 51% still pisses me off. This Cafe I mentioned had a 51% sign on the door one day. I asked the lady that owns the place WTF? She told me some guy said she had to have it and handed it to here to put on the door. BS I told here. The ladies who own the place are naturalized citizens from Mexico. Great bunch of gals. They really dont know all the detail. After I explained what the sign detailed, she was pissed. I told her if the idiot who gave her that sign ever came back in there to call me, I want to have a little"talk" with em.
    Open carry while traveling is legal, just make sure you got your traveling story straight.

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    A quick couple of things. If you're going to San Antonio for military training then you're going to potentially have issues in terms of transporting your weapon. First off, if you're going there for Air Force BMT do NOT bring a gun with you. Wait till after tech school to have your weapons sent to you (and then there will be issues with storage).

    If you're already in the military and are just going there for training then the next potential issue is where you're staying at. I know that for most military training/exercises they try to have people stay on base. And if you're staying on base then your weapon needs to be stored in the armory. At which point you probably wouldn't want to bring it with you given the transport/storage issues.

    Now if you're already in the military and are going to be staying off base for the duration of your training it wouldn't be a big deal to bring your weapon, but staying on base and trying to bring your weapon is a bad idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryMike View Post
    It's listed by model and caliber... Because that makes any sense. lol.

    Man the laws are pretty strict in TX compared to NV. Do most bars that makes 51% of their income or more post signs or do I have to pull tax records? How many places post no firearm signs?

    I appreciate the info. It's going to be weird not open carrying....
    Yep! All places with a license or permit for the sale of alcohol in Texas, both on-premises and off-premises, are required by law to post one of two signs. The "blue sign" says "The unlicensed possession of a weapon...." and applies only to people who don't have a carry permit of some sort. The "red sign" says "The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon..." and has a huge bright red "51%" behind the text; it's that red sign that signifies it's not legal to carry there with a CHL, and since 2009, it's a defense to prosecution that the place fails to post the required red sign. Ergo, if you don't see a big red 51% somewhere near the door, you're good to carry.

    And it may seem like there are lots of prohibited places, but except for courthouses and schools, almost everywhere needs a 30.06 sign to be off-limits, and the requirements for a valid 30.06 sign are much stricter than a generic gun buster. I bet you'll be like me, and think it's WAY more inconvenient not being allowed to openly carry than saying, "oh, that place is off-limits."

    Edit - Aknazer raises lots of valid practical points. If you're going to be on base or coming/going to and from base frequently, bringing a gun is going to be VERY inconvenient, probably more hassle than worth dealing with. Funny that the military makes it so much harder to legally carry sometimes than most northeastern states...
    Last edited by denwego; 04-11-2011 at 12:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    If you're already in the military and are just going there for training then the next potential issue is where you're staying at. I know that for most military training/exercises they try to have people stay on base. And if you're staying on base then your weapon needs to be stored in the armory. At which point you probably wouldn't want to bring it with you given the transport/storage issues.
    I will be staying on base and have no intention of putting it in the armory. Don't judge me, I do it everyday. Ever hear of Fort Hood? Not on my watch.

    And thanks for the info. As long as there are signs, I will be straight. I will miss Nevada laws for these 3 months...
    "I rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

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    You've already gotten some good basics in this thread. When you go off-post (sorry, is that "off-base", if you're USAF) and legally retrieve your lawfully owned sidearm, you really don't have much to worry about. There's almost no such thing as a "51% bar" in Texas. Sure, there are a few in SA and other major metro areas, but unless you plan to belly up and drink hard, with nothing more than popcorn and pickled eggs for fare, chances are it's not 51%.

    Sure, look for the signs, but unless the place looks, feels, and smells like a "dive", it's probably not a bar. If they have a full service food menu, it's more than likely a "restaurant", legally speaking.

    Enjoy your time in Texas. Tour the historic bits of SA while you're there. Enjoy Open Carry when you return home to Nevada, and wish us well as we try to regain that basic human right here in Texas.

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    Do not open carry even if you are traveling. Legally, you can, but travelling has never been defined by the courts or the legislature and doing so will most assuredly result in your arrest. I'm sure you don't want that hassle and to be a test case is not assured a victory.

    Since you have a Nevada license, just keep it out of sight and you willl be fine. Don't want to scare the sheeple.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryMike View Post
    I will be staying on base and have no intention of putting it in the armory. Don't judge me, I do it everyday. Ever hear of Fort Hood? Not on my watch.

    And thanks for the info. As long as there are signs, I will be straight. I will miss Nevada laws for these 3 months...
    I won't judge you, but my bigger concern would be for the random anti-terrorism measures (RAMs) where they randomly check cars at the gate (so far I've only been hit by it once in my seven years, but still I've seen them performed at every base I've been to), or should the base hit fpcon Charlie+ then ALL cars are checked (a ft hood type incident will make a base go to this, or a 911 type attack will push all bases up to this). Oh and what you're doing is technically illegal and so the mods frown upon such postings (i understand why you do it, but you might want to be a bit more discreet to not draw mod attention).

    And yes in the air force they are called bases, not posts. This is also why it is the BX (base exchange) and not the PX (post exchange).
    Last edited by Aknazer; 04-11-2011 at 10:46 PM. Reason: acronym meanings for non-military

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    Unless you are a resident of the base/post you are going to, most bases do not allow you to have a weapon in your possesion. If so, it has to be secured in a locked box with ammo seperate.

    It would benefit you to visit the website for the base and read their policy. If they do a random search on your car and find it, i guarantee you will not be participating in that training you drove all that way for.
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    So you are saying I can open carry, on my belt, and in any store that is not selling more than 51% of their business in alcohol? I am from Colorado and will be going to San Antonio in July for the birth of my 6th grandchild.

    If you are telling me I can open carry, that means I can carry all the way to San Antonio....right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    So you are saying I can open carry, on my belt, and in any store that is not selling more than 51% of their business in alcohol? I am from Colorado and will be going to San Antonio in July for the birth of my 6th grandchild.

    If you are telling me I can open carry, that means I can carry all the way to San Antonio....right?
    Legally, yes. The problem is, the legislature has never defined "travelling". I wouldn't if I were you. You most definitely will become the test case to define "travelling" through the court system. I seriously doubt you want that headache.

    Edit: That's 51% to be consumed on premises. Liquor stores don't count.
    Last edited by rodbender; 04-23-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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    Thanks for the info.

    Tonight we were n a restaurant and when I went to find the restroom I found the bar. It of course had the 51% signs BEHIND THE BAR 2 walls deep behind the entrance. I voiced my concerns about it's location, but finished my food and left. Their response "No one pays attention to that **** anyways."

    Outstanding. The signs literally spelled out that if you are in possession of a weapon in this establishment, you are committing a felony....TOO LATE!

    Oh, and for those freaking out. I am staying off base... For now anyways.
    Last edited by MilitaryMike; 04-24-2011 at 03:13 AM.
    "I rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Legally, yes. The problem is, the legislature has never defined "travelling". I wouldn't if I were you. You most definitely will become the test case to define "travelling" through the court system. I seriously doubt you want that headache.

    Edit: That's 51% to be consumed on premises. Liquor stores don't count.
    Ok. I carried through Colorado, New Mexico, and put my side arm in the pocket of the door when I reached Texas and pulled up my Rossi .357 carbine. I guess that is what I will have to do again. sigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryMike View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    Tonight we were n a restaurant and when I went to find the restroom I found the bar. It of course had the 51% signs BEHIND THE BAR 2 walls deep behind the entrance. I voiced my concerns about it's location, but finished my food and left. Their response "No one pays attention to that **** anyways."

    Outstanding. The signs literally spelled out that if you are in possession of a weapon in this establishment, you are committing a felony....TOO LATE!

    Oh, and for those freaking out. I am staying off base... For now anyways.
    It is a defense to prosecution if there is no 51% sign. I would assume that if it is posted deep in the establishment that it would be the same. Also, the bar and restaurant may have been 2 separate entities. If you must go through the bar to get to the restrooms, catch 22, I suppose. Sucks. I would have ignored it entirely, as I do at the 2 local liquor stores in town that are posted 51%. If they were posted 30.06, I would go to the third one.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    "If you can read this, you are committing a felony". Haha

    The restaurant was divided into 3 areas. The restaurant side, the bar side, then the pool hall side. The sign was in the pool hall area.
    "I rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

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    Thanks for the info guys.

    I am going to San Antonio and Austin in a couple of weeks for some vacation time with the wife the first few days then a work conference the later part of the time.

    I will just have to keep it concealed while there, I OC pretty much everywhere I go right now.

    Should be fun, I am looking forward to the warm weather, but not the dumb gun laws. It is Texas, I assumed you guys would be more relaxed than somewhere like Nevada!

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    militarymike

    Don't carry on base. What a way to hurt your career. Remember in the military we gain more rights not less. Leave it in the armory until you drive home again, but don't drive around with it. Do you carry on Nelis?

    Also, driving in Texas you can have a gun with you in the car if it is not in plain sight.
    www.handgunlaws.us and USCCA have good websites to read about all the states you will be driving through.

    SA is not that bad you need a weapon with you, I go unarmed sometimes and don't mind it.

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    Just a footnote to this thread's topic.

    "Discretion is the better part of valor".

    That statement can be expressed in numerous ways.

    When I travel in Texas , I carry a glock in an IWB DeSantis kydex holster with my golf/polo shirt obscuring all but the top of the holster. Glock rear sight is blackened, and I dress with attention given to "concealment".

    Net result = concealment, but access to weapons is UNINCUMBERED.

    Any attempt to publicly OVERTLY open carry in Texas is simply unadvisable at this time.

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    I was military for the Air Force and I wouldnt recommend taking your firearm with you if your just going for training. Personally that just make its a pain in the ass to notify commanders and such and then getting permission to have space in the armory. At least for me in the Air Force I had to get my First Sergeant to approve of me getting Armory space and I had to state and specify what would be stored in there and quanity.
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    Three months to the day later, I'm sure he's probably already back home by now.

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    As to carry on a Base or ANY Federal facility (except a court)

    Here's a little tidbit that is very interesting. See 18 D 3.. in the excerpt below:

    It specifically states: (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
    purposes



    Self defense is a lawful purpose, is it not? Our own Attorney General says that Self Defense is a valid lawful purpose.


    18 U.S.C. 930 : US Code - Section 930: Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities



    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
    weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
    or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
    not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
    be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
    to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
    imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
    subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
    facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,
    or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as
    provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
    agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
    subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
    supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or
    prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
    Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such
    possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
    purposes.
    (e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court
    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title,
    imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described
    in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
    United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or
    orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of
    weapons within any building housing such court or any of its
    proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
    thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
    their official duties.
    (2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device,
    instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
    used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
    bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
    knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
    (3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom,
    judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms,
    attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the
    court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States
    marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of
    any court of the United States.
    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
    posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal
    facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted
    conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court
    facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under
    subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such
    notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had
    actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    Last edited by Freeflight; 07-20-2011 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Corrected a spelling error
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    Free Flight

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    Lackland AFB

    While I can't speak for Randolph or Ft Sam with the birth of Joint Base San Antonio here at Lackland you have to unload and seperate and the Security Forces Armory does offer short term courtesy storage for those who come on base for the day, weekend and you can pick it up whenever you go off base (as long as you do not interfere with shift change and telling you when that is in this forum would be an opsec violation). So for you retirees, civilians, etc. As long as you lock and seperate before coming on base and take it straight to armory or off base (depending if its the return trip or not) you are good to go.

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