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Thread: Black Talon - Ranger T - Bonded PDX1

  1. #1
    Regular Member eddallen1958's Avatar
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    Black Talon - Ranger T - Bonded PDX1

    I have seen a lot of postings saying the Ranger T and Black Talon are the same
    bullets. I have also noticed a lot of mixed opinions on the PDX1's. So I
    decided to post this for everyone's information. None of the 3 are exactly the
    same but they are all very similar. I will not try to speculate which one is
    the best but I have my 9mm loaded with the 124gr PDX1 +P. Here is some
    information on the 3 different bullets.

    Black Talon
    The Black Talon handgun bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with
    perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion. The bullet included
    a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process, (though widely misreported to
    be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax) giving it an unusual black appearance
    compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to
    protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing
    capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester's
    rifle bullets today. The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped
    perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.

    Ranger SXT/Ranger T
    Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. The “Ranger
    SXT” ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon
    though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, a
    running joke is that SXT stands for “Same eXact Thing", though the official
    branding is “Supreme eXpansion Technology”. However, there are differences in
    the anatomy of the bullets which become apparent when carefully examined side
    by side. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were
    altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper"
    design unique to the Black Talon was retained. This "reverse taper" refers to
    the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than the toward the base,
    enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely
    perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding
    jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead
    mushroom. This difference is obvious after firing into ballistic gelatin. In
    2007 Winchester updated their Ranger SXT line and renamed it Ranger T-Series.
    Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion,
    the trademark perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the
    tips to retain stiffness.

    PDX1
    In 2009 Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite
    line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. It is similar to the Ranger
    SXT series and, therefore, the older Black Talon line in its structure, and is
    available in several calibers and loadings. The most obvious difference from
    the SXT is that the bonded design, meant to maintain structural integrity
    through difficult intermediate barriers like auto-glass, largely prevents the
    sharp petals from peeling away from the lead core and fully protruding into the
    wound track. The .40 S&W PDX1 cartridge is the primary service ammunition of
    the FBI. The PDX1 series is also available for purchase by civilian shooters.
    Further, there is no law that prohibits civilians from buying ammunition marked
    "Law Enforcement", which some of the Ranger line has printed on the box (as do
    other lines of ammo).

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    These are all just an evolutionary extension of the original Black Talon.

    You have acquire the most recent "improvement."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Correct. There is no functional difference in application, just 10 years better technology. A Black Talon had no more effect on body armor than a Silvertip. Pure, leftwing media gungrabber BS. A +P+ FMJ would have more chance of penetrating level 1 armor than any jhp. And it would not. Outside of certain ammunition for the FN 5.7mm--not available to private citizens, no pistol is going to penetrate body armor.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Correct. There is no functional difference in application, just 10 years better technology. A Black Talon had no more effect on body armor than a Silvertip. Pure, leftwing media gungrabber BS. A +P+ FMJ would have more chance of penetrating level 1 armor than any jhp. And it would not. Outside of certain ammunition for the FN 5.7mm--not available to private citizens, no pistol is going to penetrate body armor.
    Excluding some pistol variants firing what is normally considered to be long gun ammunition.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Excluding some pistol variants firing what is normally considered to be long gun ammunition.
    That's an interesting one. A 5.56 NATO in a pistol, with certain ammo, could penetrate up to level 3A armor--with a long enough barrel. 22-250s can get up to 4000fps out of a 24" barrel, but I don't know of any ammo type that would be armor piercing for it. 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) certainly has AP rounds available and will penetrate level 4--again depending on barrel length. The big boomers don't. While a .416 Rigby in the heart area may cause enough traumatic shock to kill, it would not penetrate even a level 1 vest. Strange but true--a lot of body armor used by the cops won't stop a knife due to the weave pattern. Would make me careful dealing with a guy with a blade unless I had ceramic plate armor. Problem is that type weighs a ton. Feel bad for cops wearing BA in the summer down South. Not exactly the height of comfort.

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