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Thread: Back up guns?

  1. #1
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    Back up guns?

    I never really considered carrying a BUG, but a recent conversation got me thinking about it and I might give it a try.

    The closest thing to a BUG for me is my CZ82 right now, but it's a bit large and heavy for BUG duty. Any suggestions for a smaller, lighter option? I'd like to keep the caliber at a 9mm minimum, but if it has to be a 380, 9x18 etc... then that's ok I guess.

    Off the top of my head, here is my list:
    snub nose revolver, so many models I won't even try to list them.
    kel tec p3at
    Seecamp .380
    kahr MK series
    ruger lcp or lcr

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    Have you handled a PF-9 ? It is a 9MM , fairly small , and light.

    You could carry it IWB or in an ankle holster. It would certainly be easier than a snub nosed revolver to hide .

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    I have a Keltec P3AT. It's a nice pistol but the trigger pull is heavy since you are cocking the mainspring. I don't bother with a bug so I don't shoot it anymore.

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    Regular Member JoeGlock40's Avatar
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    i got a keltec p11 its a 9mm...its anice BUG but the trigger sucks bad, but after awhile you can learn to control it pretty good.. but its a BUG not a 25 yard 2 inch group kinda gun, its for touching distance really. i keep it as my BUG while my main gun is my glock 22 with CT lasergrips. id recommend a glock 26 or 27 as a good BUG there small but handle good and hold a good amount of ammo and have a great trigger and are highly reliable

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    I thought I'd throw this picture in the works because it shows the difference in sizes. From top left going clockwise. P11, CZ82, Taurus85 and P3AT.

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    That is the 2nd small taurus I've seen. What's the prevailing thought on the small taurus guns?

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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Walther ppk/s in 380...nuff said.

  8. #8
    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Oh yea, I'd suggest getting one that was made in France or W Germany if you do decide on a ppk/s...the ones made in America are ****.

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    Regarding the Taurus 85, it is an accurate (for it's purpose) reliable and well made. That one is wearing Crimson Trace grips. The only problem with the Taurus is Blackhawk doesn't make a Serpa holster for it.
    Three of those firearms I have carried for concealed carry. The CZ82 (I never carried this one) is the first of two I bought for plinking ( I liked it so much I bought a second ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by irish52084 View Post
    I never really considered carrying a BUG, but a recent conversation got me thinking about it and I might give it a try.

    The closest thing to a BUG for me is my CZ82 right now, but it's a bit large and heavy for BUG duty. Any suggestions for a smaller, lighter option? I'd like to keep the caliber at a 9mm minimum, but if it has to be a 380, 9x18 etc... then that's ok I guess.

    Off the top of my head, here is my list:
    snub nose revolver, so many models I won't even try to list them.
    kel tec p3at
    Seecamp .380
    kahr MK series
    ruger lcp or lcr
    Since you already have a CZ in 9mm, have you considered the CZ Rami in 9? I have the both the 75B and the Rami and must say they have among the best of the 40 or so handguns I have owned. Ahhhh, I owned them before the ship went down with all guns aboard.
    Mitch

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    I spaced on the rami, one of the local gun shops had one in the case about a month ago, maybe I can give it a fondle. I love my CZ's, I wouldn't bat an eye at buying another.

    How bout the para warthog? Any first hand experience? I didn't have much success with 3" 1911's a few years back, but they seem to be getting more popular. I found them to be very unforgiving to less than a perfect grip and subsequently had some stovepipe, FTF and FTE malfunctions.

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    Bodyguard 380. Accurate, reliable and small.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think it's pretty important to carry a BUG, also.

    Think about sky-diving. Would they consider the reserve chute 'optional'? No way. Likewise, in life or death scenarios, consider that your primary could go inoperable for a thousand different reasons - all of them pretty much 'Murphy's Law' types of things. It is a very rare and unexpected, but virtually anyone who uses HGs has had an unexpected 'problem'. Given there are so many ways, and given that the chance both guns would go inoperable simultaneously to be almost nil, it makes sense to carry two.

    A lot of times we just pick a formerly used smaller gun for BUG because it's available. It now makes sense to get a pocket gun (LCP, KT-p3at, small revolver) just for the express purpose of BUG ensuring that it IS a HG we can and will EDC.

    When all factors are equal, it's the HG you will carry and the one you shoot the best (.380 or above) that you should be training and carrying.

    $.02

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbitone View Post
    ... Personally, I carry a Glock 21sf for my BUG.


    I have long carried BUG's. I used to carry a Taurus PT145 Millenium Pro 10+1 45acp thumb safety until I started having feeding problems. I switched to a Sig Sauer P220 Compact SAS Gen2 with SRT and night sights. I strongly considered a Kahr P45 or PM45 but decided to standardize on Sigs since I had others. (holsters, mags)

    Since my round count dropped from 10+1 to 6+1 I usually carry a spare magazine. The Compact P220 will take the longer 8+1 mags of regular P220's. I can fit it (in a holster) inside front pockets of jeans but it prints badly. Usually I am wearing cargo shorts so it fits nicely in the front pocket of them.

    My daughter has started shooting 45acp so in a bad situation I could give my BUG to her and we would both be able to defend ourselves.

    I also have a Kahr MK40 which I like and got a crimson trace laser for. It is a bit heavy and has a long trigger pull. They weight helps with the recoil but 40S&W is snappy. It is thinner than my Sig so it conceals better so when I go to FL it usually comes with.

    I picked up a Kahr P380 and like it alot since it is easy to shoot. I got it for my youngest to practice with and she did well with it but still prefer's her 22 Walther. I don't like the caliber but admit it is small and conceals well. My smallist gun is a NAA 32acp which I only use as a deep CC gun since it hurts to shoot. :-(

    You could check out the Kahr PM9 if you wanted to stay with 9mm. I prefer 45acp hence my user name.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I use a Kel-tec PF-9 or a Taurus PT738 depending on the day.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Hmm all the above choices are good but perphaps take a look at some wheel guns? I mean BUG IMO is for when your primary sidearm fails right?

    What about like Charter Arms Undercover lite?
    http://www.charterfirearms.com/produ...ver_53864.html

    Or the space age designed Rhino?
    http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/725

    Either way a 2"barreled revolver makes a great small BUG. .38 and .357 are decent calibers to have for self defense. In cases like the Rhino(.357) muzzle flip is minimal.
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    Ok, that undercover lite from charter arms looks like a winner. The weight is only 12 oz and the price is nice at about $400 msrp. What kind of a rep does charter arms have for fit, finish and quality?

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    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish52084 View Post
    Ok, that undercover lite from charter arms looks like a winner. The weight is only 12 oz and the price is nice at about $400 msrp. What kind of a rep does charter arms have for fit, finish and quality?
    Well if you look around online seems to be about 50/50. Most of the negative reviews seem to be from 75-83 models. The newer ones the only issue I have read is the cylinder being loose(something I would think you would check before buying), and some complain that a few of the screws need a tad of locktight if your gonna go shoot 400 rounds in a day. Personally I put locktight on just about every screw on all my guns anyways. Might be overkill, but when your dealing with a mechanism that operates based on exposives... better safe then sorry. I suppose just take a look at one and use common sense is all I have to say. But keep in mind with the weight being 12oz it prolly has some muzzle flip.

    To me for the price and weight, a few easily fixable glitches(if it in fact has them, as some report no issues at all) is still a heck of a bargain. But then again most people post reviews toward the negative side anyways. Charter arms has an un-conditional lifetime warranty(not just for original owner either), so if anything goes wrong you have that to fall back on.

    BTW the link is of the exact coloring(they have a few schemes to choose from) my wife just got, and picked it up for $339 + tax. Its not expensive, but why would you pay $1,OOO for a BUG anyways?
    Last edited by DevinWKuska; 04-12-2011 at 07:49 PM. Reason: reduce posting
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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    When carrying a BUG what is most ideal from a tactical point of view? Do you carry the BUG so that you draw it with your dominant hand or non-dominant hand; concealed or openly? Why?
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    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    I used to think carrying a bug was a bit of overkill, but I have since had a change of heart.

    I occasionally carry a taurus 85 ultralight in my left hand pocket in a galco pocket holster. I am right handed and open carry on the right hip, but I do practice with the weak hand and I find that when I conceal carry I am still using the taurus in my left pocket since I have come to feel comfortable with it there.

    If you are carrying one gun openly I would strongly suggest carrying the bug for the weak hand. Just practice with whatever you are carrying.
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    The last Charter Arms revolver about 3 or 4 years ago I bought (the undercover southpaw) had sharp edges and wasn't reliable. I don't know if it was just that model but the cylinder didn't swing out enough to use a speed loader.

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    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    The last Charter Arms revolver about 3 or 4 years ago I bought (the undercover southpaw) had sharp edges and wasn't reliable. I don't know if it was just that model but the cylinder didn't swing out enough to use a speed loader.
    Was it new when you purchased it? The revolver my wife purchased seemed smoothed out, maybe they fixed it after complaints? As far as the use of a speed loader... IMO once your resorting to your bug your in a last ditch type scenario. To me anyways reloading my BUG shouldnt be a concern. As once I am down to my BUG I would no longer be attempting to hold my ground, but rather using my BUG to help me flee.
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

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    It was brand new. I wasn't going to use it as a bug.

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    I recently purchased a Taurus PT738 for my wife and it's pretty nice. I've been carrying it since she doesn't have her CWP, OC is illegal still in Oklahoma, and I can't CC my XDm-40 or XD9-SC (not sure if it's just my holster or simply because of how big they are combined with my current clothes and how skinny I am). My two complaints would be the low profile sights (especially the front sight as it isn't colored and can be hard to see) and that it is double action only. Those things don't bother me too much with a bug as I'm still relatively accurate with it (my accuracy with handguns in general needs to improve though) and I can get off all 6+1 shots that the gun carries fairly quickly.

    Oh and when shooting it at the range I did notice that my index finger started to hurt after awhile from being banged around in the trigger guard due to the kick, but I would expect this from any gun of this size.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    When carrying a BUG what is most ideal from a tactical point of view? Do you carry the BUG so that you draw it with your dominant hand or non-dominant hand; concealed or openly? Why?
    I OC on my right hip and I CC my BUG in my front left pocket. I figure if one of my hands is occupied (holding off an attacker or directing my child to safety) or injured I can use the other to draw "a" gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcmech View Post
    I used to think carrying a bug was a bit of overkill, but I have since had a change of heart.

    I occasionally carry a taurus 85 ultralight in my left hand pocket in a galco pocket holster. I am right handed and open carry on the right hip, but I do practice with the weak hand and I find that when I conceal carry I am still using the taurus in my left pocket since I have come to feel comfortable with it there.

    If you are carrying one gun openly I would strongly suggest carrying the bug for the weak hand. Just practice with whatever you are carrying.
    +1

    I used to CC my taurus PT145 in a Don Hume pocket holster in my left front pocket but now carry a Sig P220 Compact in that same pocket.

    I wouldn't mind OC-ing two guns but don't want to mentally terrorize sheep. :-) If the SHTF I may OC two but will definitely have a rifle/shotgun over the shoulder.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 04-13-2011 at 09:39 AM.

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