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Thread: HBO special on "Gun Violence" airs Wednesday 4/13/11

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    HBO special on "Gun Violence" airs Wednesday 4/13/11

    From a good friend who apparently want to see if I can really cave in my skull from headbanging.

    Oil up the keyboard keys and get ready to send in those responses. No fair writing them ahead of time and just waiting till the credits roll to hit the "SEND" key.

    stay safe.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Subj: hbo gun special coming wednesday


    FYI -
    NPR had Barbara Kopple on yesterday, talking about GUN FIGHT, a special she's done on guns. From the interview, seems that although she has some pro-rights people on, she's convinced by the antis. The show itself, of course, will show one way or the other.
    This HBO "documentary" premeires Wednesday at 9pm Eastern; it will also air on Saturday and on April 21, 25 and 29.

    Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/11/354...#ixzz1JDnC7fSU

    Sounds like it'll be worth watching and responding to -- we'll at least need to be able to respond intelligently to the issues they'll raise. Some links are below.

    =============================================
    HBO main link to this has trailer and synopsis, probably more. See it at:
    < http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/ind...ries/gun-fight >
    Commentary and background:
    < http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/11/354...n-look-at.html >
    More links if you care: Google the following phrase:
    hbo guns wednesday
    =============================================

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Well, here we go again. Too much gun violence. The article about Dr. Garen Wintemute treating gunshot victims in the ER tosses out some numbers for both gun and motor vehicle deaths (in 2009, 31,228 firearm related deaths vs 33,808 motor vehicle related deaths http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/11/354...n-look-at.html).

    Every violent death is tragic, but given the number of guns (and automobiles) in existence in the US, are these numbers that high? No one disputes that these numbers would be zero if firearms and motor vehicles didn't exist, but they also could potentially be much higher. Oh, yeah: we had firearms long before we had motor vehicles.

    Somewhere, someone has a breakdown of these numbers to show the causes of these deaths, i.e. crime (murder, robbery, etc.), self defense, suicide, accident. They will probably show that crime and suicide deaths due to firearms greatly outnumber those due to motor vehicles, with accidents being the bulk of those deaths. Motor vehicles are rarely used in self defense, so gun related deaths will likely dominate this category.

    What such a breakdown might also show is that if we could keep guns out of the hands of criminals, both crime and self defense deaths would decrease dramatically, which would be a good thing. Unfortunately, this is only likely if criminals had no hands.

    In the comment section of the above link, someone noted the annual number of self defense uses of firearms (1,029,615, estimated by the CDC). Of that number, some fraction of the 31,228 gun deaths were due to self defense. If they were all self defense deaths, the overall fraction would be (at most) 3.03%. This suggests that crime is a relatively safe occupation for the criminal.

    BTW, if you're a Cox Cable subscriber, this airs at 9:30pm on 4/13/2011.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 04-11-2011 at 03:37 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    I don't carry a violent gun. I carry a peace gun.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    I don't have HBO. I will not contribute to those who contribute to the "BRADY BUNCH".
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I don't carry a violent gun. I carry a peace gun.
    45LC sounds like a fine cartridge for SD, but isn't such a long barrel and a lack of double action make that a risky choice for SD?

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    What we're up against...

    One could conclude from this "Special" that the anti-gunners realize that they're in a leaky boat and must rally support to save their cause. They identify "weaknesses" that might be overcome as rallying points, and attempt to highlight the absurdity of expanding gun rights in the wake of mass shooting tragedies, pointing out that Virginia leads the way down this precipice ("VT hasn't moved people to tighten gun laws, especially in Virginia.").

    I was surprised to see the clips of PVC and the VCDL, and their acknowledgement of the Brady campaign.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    The showed just enough of the "other side" to be able to say "see, we were objective!" This was nothing but a Paid commercial program for Collin Goddard and his ilk at the Brady Campaign.

    For the record, I watched this in my big fluffy Turkish robe with a glass of a very nice red wide and in one of the pockets of my robe was my firearm; and no, I'm not suddenly going to run out tomorrow and turn in all my guns and pledge allegiance to the United Soviet Socialist states of Amerika! If anything, I'll probably go out and finaly become an NRA member, something I've always intended to do at some point.

    **** you Collin Godard! From my cold, dead hands!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    SNIP If anything, I'll probably go out and finaly become an NRA member, something I've always intended to do at some point.
    May I urge you to think it over thoroughly?

    Just today I received an NRA-ILA e-mail alert asking me to write my elected thieves in congress, urging them to support a national CCW recognition bill. In laymen's terms the NRA asked me to urge congress to legislate where they have no authority.

    If it can be granted, it can be taken away.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Well, here we go again. Too much gun violence. The article about Dr. Garen Wintemute treating gunshot victims in the ER tosses out some numbers for both gun and motor vehicle deaths (in 2009, 31,228 firearm related deaths vs 33,808 motor vehicle related deaths http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/11/354...n-look-at.html).
    Apples and oranges. Motor vehicle related deaths are 99.99% accidental. The number of accidental deaths due to firearms in this country are approximately 1,500 annually.

    The other 28,728 deaths due to firearms are intentional, and include cops shooting bad guys (lawful act by an LEO), honest law-abiding citizens shooting bad guys (lawful act of self-defense), bad guys shooting bad guys (murder or self-defense), and bad guys shooting good guys (murder).

    ...given the number of guns (and automobiles) in existence in the US, are these numbers that high?
    Given the fact there are roughly the same number of firearms as motor vehicles in the U.S., the number of accidental deaths due to motor vehicles is more than 20 times higher than the number of accidental deaths due to firearms.

    Somewhere, someone has a breakdown of these numbers to show the causes of these deaths, i.e. crime (murder, robbery, etc.), self defense, suicide, accident. They will probably show that crime and suicide deaths due to firearms greatly outnumber those due to motor vehicles, with accidents being the bulk of those deaths.
    Bingo.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    May I urge you to think it over thoroughly?

    Just today I received an NRA-ILA e-mail alert asking me to write my elected thieves in congress, urging them to support a national CCW recognition bill. In laymen's terms the NRA asked me to urge congress to legislate where they have no authority.
    +1. I was a member back in 1991-1992. Never since, and never again.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Apples and oranges. Motor vehicle related deaths are 99.99% accidental. The number of accidental deaths due to firearms in this country are approximately 1,500 annually.

    The other 28,728 deaths due to firearms are intentional, and include cops shooting bad guys (lawful act by an LEO), honest law-abiding citizens shooting bad guys (lawful act of self-defense), bad guys shooting bad guys (murder or self-defense), and bad guys shooting good guys (murder).



    Given the fact there are roughly the same number of firearms as motor vehicles in the U.S., the number of accidental deaths due to motor vehicles is more than 20 times higher than the number of accidental deaths due to firearms.



    Bingo.
    I guess you're the "someone, somewhere" with the breakdown. Good job!
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    There is an hour and a half I'll never get back . One thing that I have an issue with was the "reenactment" showing what might have happened had someone been been CCing during the shooting. First lets put the person carrying in a ridiculously loooooooooong shirt and then put gloves on him .And since we are not privy to how it was set up how do we know it was accurate? Anything put forth by someone trying to debunk what would happen had a person been carrying a gun is HIGHLY suspect to say the least.
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    Who watches HBO? I just wait for True Blood to come out on DVD. Hell with Netfix is there anything worth watching on HBO? Just curious. I'll bet there were not much folk watching a "Gun Violence Special" on HBO. Let PBS do all the Liberal BS.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I like Netflix! It's half the price of what I was spending on Redbox rentals, and that was half the price of what I'd have been paying for cable.

    Haven't had cable TV since 2001. Haven't missed it, either.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45 View Post
    .And since we are not privy to how it was set up how do we know it was accurate? Anything put forth by someone trying to debunk what would happen had a person been carrying a gun is HIGHLY suspect to say the least.
    Yes and that "experiment" was debunked. The "shooter" was told which students were armed before hand. Also, it goes without saying that drawing from concealment takes a lot of practice on your own. Clearly the student they depicted didn't know or was never taught how to draw in this manner. I tried to draw without clearing his clothing from the pistol then draw for the very reason we saw; he got his pistol tangled up in it. That "experiment was designed to fail from the start not to mention many scenarios are no win, but at least you have a chance ifyour are armed.

    I was talking with my trig professor about the issue of firearms on campus, and he says "Isn't that what the campus police are for?" My response was pretty simple. "would you attempt to take a trig test with an abacus?" Self defense is no different; you can't defend yourself with a cell phone." You don't tell firefighters to fight a fire with a bucket when there is a truck in the station. You don't ask a mechanic to service a car and only give him a pair of pliers. You don't ask a brain surgeon to operate with a steak knife. You don't ask a chef to cook without heat.

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