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Thread: Somebody add this today in Senate?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Somebody add this today in Senate?

    Last edited by Rick H; 04-11-2011 at 07:30 PM.
    God Bless America.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Is it being butt-hammered again? this looks like something we saw already...

    This concerns me deeply.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-11-2011 at 08:04 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    From what I can tell it's only adding an "accidental exposure" clause before our OC amendment is even addressed. Says nothing about deleting/changing the OC provisions. Still, anything worries me.

  4. #4
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Read closely. That is an addition to 790.053 (Open Carry Prohibition), referencing the new OC provision in 790.06. A little housekeeping.

    It wouldn't do well to have one statute say you can open carry, and another say you can't.
    That's what I figured. Actually I figured it was an add-on to make the "I just don't want to worry about 'flashing' my CC" folks happy; making sure anyone can OC or CC with impunity and not have to worry about accidental exposure on CC or accidental concealment with OC, etc.

    How about this as an amendment "Delete all other FL state laws concerning weapons; any U.S. citizen or legal resident alien who has not been convicted of a felony/adjudicated mentally incompetant may carry any federally-legal weapon in any safe, non-threatening manner of his or her choosing, at any time, in or outside of any vehicle or conveyance, in any location not otherwise prohibited by federal law" ?
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 04-11-2011 at 08:17 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    From what I can tell it's only adding an "accidental exposure" clause before our OC amendment is even addressed. Says nothing about deleting/changing the OC provisions. Still, anything worries me.
    It appears to be a good amendment to protect transitioning from concealed to open carry. I'm concerned however that it says "by Bogdanoff". She wasn't too hot about OC in the beginning. Unless I'm missing something nothing in this amendment deletes the open carry provisions of SB 234.
    Last edited by 77zach; 04-11-2011 at 08:18 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    What is definition of open carry? i don't see definition anywhere in those statutes, so i guess i could carry my rifle in my hand down the street

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    Quote Originally Posted by seminoles1999 View Post
    What is definition of open carry? i don't see definition anywhere in those statutes, so i guess i could carry my rifle in my hand down the street
    It shall not be a violation
    12 of this section for a person who is licensed to carry a
    13 concealed firearm, and who is lawfully carrying it in a
    14 concealed manner, to accidentally or inadvertently display the
    15 firearm to the ordinary sight of another person so long as the
    16 firearm is not displayed in a rude, angry, or threatening
    17 manner.
    Rude, angry or threatening manner
    Who is going to be the judge of that?

  8. #8
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seminoles1999 View Post
    What is definition of open carry? i don't see definition anywhere in those statutes, so i guess i could carry my rifle in my hand down the street
    According to the current version of sb234, well... slung over your shoulder, yes. In your hand, probably not, I think 234 would still leave that as a probable "rude and threatening display."
    HB517 however was amended to specify "handgun only," so it'll depend on how they're both amended to match when they hit the floors.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Rude, angry or threatening manner
    Who is going to be the judge of that?
    The responding officer?
    Odds are noone will notice a brief "accidental exposure" but if you're a CC'er, just thank us who'll OC and get people used to the sight of law-abiding guns so they won't feel a need to panic at CC 'flashing' lol
    Once this passes and people start getting used to the sight of guns, I think officers will get it ok. If someone calls "guy with a gun" on you they'll probably check your CWL, maybe ask you to leave whereever it was, and that'll probably be the end of it.

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    Time to start emailing them to get this removed

  11. #11
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Time to start emailing them to get this removed
    It's theoretically just restating another part of the 760 statutes. It's already illegal to 'display a weapon in a rude, careless, or threatening manner,' in those exact words. Whether a CC "flash" is considered such has basically been up to responder interpretation. I think she's just trying to make a definite statement that accidental exposure is is not a crime, unless it's done with threatening or rude intentions. We're still left with something ill-defined, but it's more or less just an attempt to cover the ***es of CC'ers with accidental exposure fears. It shouldn't affect OC as 234/517 go.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    NO! It is a prelude to killing OC!

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tion-requested!
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    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

  13. #13
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    NO! It is a prelude to killing OC!

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tion-requested!
    I knew my denial would not make the truth go away. Alas, OC in Fl too good to be true.

    There will be a follow up amendment to "delete everything" in lines such and such removing the OC language from the bill. Neocons. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want......blah blah blah. Evers and Hammer will be amenable. This was their main goal anyhow.

    Email sent regardless.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    How many people have been fined or arrested for accidently having their conceal weapon show?
    Last edited by seminoles1999; 04-11-2011 at 11:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seminoles1999 View Post
    How many people have been fined or arrested for accidentaly having their conceal weapon show?
    Few. This was mostly an excuse to help the bill along. To trick them into getting closer to respecting the right to OC. It didn't work, but I fully expected that. Oh well, no sense in being mad at this *****. It was the people who put her in, and every other neocon up there.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong....

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
    8 (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection
    9 (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about
    10 his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device,

    This does NOT state that she want Opencarry removed, she just added the accidental part to it. And the Bold writing above in sub section 8.(1) just make the rules that you must be Licensed and follow the rules in the rest of SB234 from my perspective.
    Correct me if I am wrong.
    God Bless America.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    The rest of the thing is gone. This is REPLACEMENT text, even though it it not being presented as such.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Or, I may be wrong and we are over-reacting:

    Florida Senate - 2011 COMMITTEE AMENDMENT
    Bill No. CS for SB 234






    Barcode 348370

    LEGISLATIVE ACTION
    Senate . House
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    —————————————————————————————————————————————————— ———————————————




    —————————————————————————————————————————————————— ———————————————
    The Committee on Judiciary (Bogdanoff) recommended the
    following:

    1 Senate Amendment (with title amendment)
    2
    3 Between lines 164 and 165
    4 insert:

    5 Section 4. Subsection (1) of section 790.053, Florida
    6 Statutes, is amended to read:
    7 790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
    8 (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection
    9 (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about
    10 his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device,
    11 except as provided in s. 790.06(1).
    It shall not be a violation
    12 of this section for a person who is licensed to carry a
    13 concealed firearm, and who is lawfully carrying it in a
    14 concealed manner, to accidentally or inadvertently display the
    15 firearm to the ordinary sight of another person so long as the
    16 firearm is not displayed in a rude, angry, or threatening
    17 manner.
    18
    19 ================= T I T L E A M E N D M E N T ================
    20 And the title is amended as follows:
    21 Delete line 16
    22 and insert:
    23 place in another state. amending s. 790.053, F.S.;
    24 providing that person in compliance with the terms of
    25 a concealed carry license is not in violation of s.
    26 790.053(1), F.S. when the concealed firearm is
    27 accidentally or inadvertently displayed to the
    28 ordinary sight of another person; providing an
    29 effective date.
    This is confusing.

    It doesn't look like it erases anything, actually... I bolded the important parts... I'm going to bed, you figure it out. :-p

    As written, It is illegal to carry on or about your person... Any electric weapon OR DEVICE. Did they just make cell phones, digital cameras, voice recorders, etc., all illegal without a CWP?

    This part also contradicts the hunting/fishing/camping provisions....

    Why can't they just stop screwing with it? This is retarded. Boggie seems to have screwed the pooch, this doesn't work or make sense.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-12-2011 at 01:37 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  19. #19
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    I wouldnt worry to much about it people... I believe its going to pass


    It scares me that she would even attempt to kill it though. Why expend the political capital to reveal yourself as an anti if she thought it had a good chance of passing regardless. She could have done what Dean did and just vote against it if it gets to the floor.
    Last edited by 77zach; 04-12-2011 at 07:41 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  20. #20
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    It scares me that she would even attempt to kill it though. Why expend the political capital to reveal yourself as an anti if she thought it had a good chance of passing regardless. She could have done what Dean did and just vote against it if it gets to the floor.
    Doing it this way, she (they?) don't have to go on record as voting AGAINST it. They can vote FOR it.

    Reagan said it best (paraphrase) "Politics is the world's second-oldest profession, and I've come to learn that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."

    Keep the emails and phone calls flowing....

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    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    jajaja!!... it will pass watch and see... you guys gotta think positive about this.

    some people have been waiting for this for 20+years, do your honestly think they dont know that?... with the support of the NRA and most of everyone in the committee its going to pass.. It has to!! NRA has some major pull for sure, there really the only one's fighting for you guys to protect the rights of gun owners and establish more freedom for them...But its not easy, there are laws and rules that must be addressed first.

    This will pass!!
    i hope your right!!!!

  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    jajaja!!... it will pass watch and see... you guys gotta think positive about this.

    some people have been waiting for this for 20+years, do your honestly think they dont know that?... with the support of the NRA and most of everyone in the committee its going to pass.. It has to!! NRA has some major pull for sure, there really the only one's fighting for you guys to protect the rights of gun owners and establish more freedom for them...But its not easy, there are laws and rules that must be addressed first.

    This will pass!!
    You must know something I don't, the most recent amendment deletes OC (amendment 7)

    Hope you're right!
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    jajaja!!... it will pass watch and see... you guys gotta think positive about this.

    some people have been waiting for this for 20+years, do your honestly think they dont know that?... with the support of the NRA and most of everyone in the committee its going to pass.. It has to!! NRA has some major pull for sure, there really the only one's fighting for you guys to protect the rights of gun owners and establish more freedom for them...But its not easy, there are laws and rules that must be addressed first.

    This will pass!!
    I believe you it'll pass, but I've lost my confidence in it passing with anything resembling real OC, with every bloody traitor RINO trying to boom-head-shot! it in every committee.
    What are the odds they'll pass Bugg-... uh, *Bogdanoff's load-of-crap amendment, then get Evers to counter-amend it in time for Rules to pass a real OC version?

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    Apparently because it wasn't Evers who authored or introduced the amendment he would have to certify that it is a "friendly amendment"?

    If Evers confirms that it's a friendly amendment, that puts him in the same boat as Bogdanoff.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigmalg View Post
    Apparently because it wasn't Evers who authored or introduced the amendment he would have to certify that it is a "friendly amendment"?

    If Evers confirms that it's a friendly amendment, that puts him in the same boat as Bogdanoff.
    I think that's only if it is automatically adopted.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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