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Thread: Representative Ross Hunter wants to take away YOUR right to self-defense!

  1. #1
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    Representative Ross Hunter wants to take away YOUR right to self-defense!

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/2067.pdf

    This bill strikes the entirety of 9A.16.110. This goes beyond bad politics as usual, it's unconscionable. Any of you living or with family in the 48th district should be contacting Ross Hunter: ross.hunter@leg.wa.gov - Tell him what you think about making self-defense a scarier legal position to be put in, and why you or your friends will not be voting for him. My email follows:

    Subject: I'm disappointed in you - HB1016 & 2067
    Body:
    First, you vote “no” on HB1016 because you don’t understand the law. Your reasoning that you “have remaining concerns about these suppressors leaking into the general population. Stuff gets stolen, lost, or given away” makes no sense when the bill in question does not change the purchase or acquisition of these devices, it simply removes penalties for using them to reduce noise. Thankfully, that poor vote was overturned by your more sensible colleagues.

    You then turn right back around and work to further weaken the legal rights of a person acting in self-defense. It is unconscionable to place the burden of defense on the assaulted party. Many avoid going to court already due to the perceived imbalance of prosecutorial power versus the right of the defendant, and you further engender this bias via HB2067. It’s clear you care little about the rights of the people in this state to effectively defend themselves per Article 1 Section 24 of our constitution, both in safety of practice and practicality of legal repercussions. As such, I will be urging friends and families to vote against you this next election, as you clearly do not serve the rights of the people of the 48th district.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    What the Hell!!!! Was he elected by the Violent Criminals Guild?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This is almost like yelling fire in a movie theater.
    As there is not even one co-sponsor and the only reason it is moving every so slightly is because he is the Ways and Means Chair.

    What a jerk Hunter is.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2067&year=2011
    Last edited by BigDave; 04-11-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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    I really think an idjit like this should be impeached. Those in the 48th should put some effort into making this pea-brain know just how out of touch he is. He is also violating his oath of office, which should be cause for impeachment.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Haven't we passed the deadline for all not "Revenue" bills to have been passed from committee and into the general session? If so, bills like this would be dead for the 2011 session.

    As for the "48th District", what do you expect from someone representing Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Medina, Clyde Hill, Hunts Point, Yarrow Point and a little bit of Issaquah.

    I certainly have no plans to move to any of those communities just to be able to vote against him and those who live there are brain dead when it comes to Self Defense. They all figure that's the job of the Police Department.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    My letter to Olympia:

    Dear Mr. Sullivan:

    HB2067 would be bad legislation: It would remove the primary defense against corrupt* prosecutors now enjoyed by people who defend their lives legally. RCW 9A.16.110 serves as a deterrent to malicious prosecution. It is worse for the poor now and would be worse yet under HB2067. The lower one's income or property value, the less effective one's ability, in practical terms, to defend oneself in our legal system. Often, the quality of one's defense is based upon one's ability to hire good (read expensive) lawyers and investigators. There is no valid reason that the motto of the Washington court system should be, "Equal justice for all; at least those with lots of money." The ideal should be to correctly determine the guilt or innocence of the defendant, not to engage in attempts at perceived social justice through malicious prosecution. As you well know, this is a hypothetical ideal but we should not move even farther away from the ideal than we are now. HB2067 would move Washington in the wrong direction.

    *At one time I thought that corruption was limited to the taking of monetary bribes, such as future jobs or actual cash. I now see corruption as having a much larger definition. Political aspirations and philosophies at odds with The Constitution are just two sources of non-monetary corruption.

    Sincerely,

    MachoDuck

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I was notified about this today in my NRA daily email. I believe the Representitive (and I use that term loosly) is just trying to save a state buck. It is something they are ALL trying to do, and they seem to pick things that pi** us off. I believe it is a scare tactic demo's use to freak people into letting them spend more. The Bastiges!!
    Yes I did send out about fifteen emails to the Legs in Olympia
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 04-12-2011 at 01:26 PM. Reason: punched the button too fast, duh

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Haven't we passed the deadline for all not "Revenue" bills to have been passed from committee and into the general session? If so, bills like this would be dead for the 2011 session.

    As for the "48th District", what do you expect from someone representing Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Medina, Clyde Hill, Hunts Point, Yarrow Point and a little bit of Issaquah.

    I certainly have no plans to move to any of those communities just to be able to vote against him and those who live there are brain dead when it comes to Self Defense. They all figure that's the job of the Police Department.
    I would think that this is past the deadline as indicated in the cut off calendar dates below, but the committee (as a fiscal committee and trying to relate this to the budget somehow) may get some additional grace time: However, at a minimum this bill will automatically be on the docket for next session in 2012 as they get a two year hall pass.

    It is important to continue to monitor our legislative process for this kind of sneak attack introduction of proposed legislation so late in the game.

    WARNING: While it is uncommon, his intent may be to introduce this bill directly on the floor and move to a floor debate and vote....and circumvent the intent of the entire legislative process.

    I suggest that as many gun friendly legislators be contacted (in the house) regarding this issue, as IMHO, the Representative sponsoring this bill will likely not give a fat rats A$$ what your postion and threat of vote may be in your correspondence.

    Having as many/any show up for the public hearing would be important. You can be assured that he likely has a few followers lined up to testify in SUPPORT of this bill, otherwise he wouldn't have put it up for public comment.

    2011 Session Cutoff Calendar

    Below are the cutoff dates for the 2011 Regular Session.

    January 10, 2011 First Day of Session

    February 21, 2011 Last day to read in committee reports in house of origin, except House fiscal committees and Senate Ways & Means and Transportation committees.

    February 25, 2011 Last day to read in committee reports from House fiscal committees and Senate Ways & Means and Transportation committees in house of origin.

    March 7, 2011 Last day to consider bills in house of origin (5 p.m.).

    March 25, 2011 Last day to read in committee reports from opposite house, except House fiscal committees and Senate Ways & Means and Transportation committees.

    April 1, 2011 Last day to read in opposite house committee reports from House fiscal committees and Senate Ways & Means and Transportation committees.

    April 12, 2011* Last day to consider opposite house bills (5 p.m.) (except initiatives and alternatives to initiatives, budgets and matters necessary to implement budgets, differences between the houses, and matters incident to the interim and closing of the session).

    April 24, 2011 Last day allowed for regular session under state constitution.

    * After the 93rd day, only initiatives, alternatives to initiatives, budgets and matters necessary to implement budgets, messages pertaining to amendments, differences between the houses, and matters incident to the interim and closing of the session may be considered.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Broadcast this email to anyone that may want to testify

    Apr 13 Scheduled for public hearing in the House Committee on Ways & Means at 3:30 PM

    I sent a PM to Mark Knapp, Atty regarding this.....and will send it to others. I'd encourage you to broadcast this in your personal network.

    .....a piece of legislation that affects us all has been dropped into play:


    Representative Ross Hunter, Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee -


    HB - 2067


    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2067&year=2011



    NEW SECTION. Sec. 1. RCW 9A.16.110 (Defending against violent

    6 crime--Reimbursement) and 1995 c 44 s 1, 1989 c 94 s 1, & 1977 ex.s. c

    7 206 s 8 are each repealed.


    Eliminates reimbursement for defense costs of persons acquitted on the basis of self-defense.



    I know that this will be an important issue for you. If at all possible, I am letting folks know so that if available, you may make an effort to go and testify against this bill at the public hearing that he set up for tomorrow in Olympia at 3:30 pm


    Thanks for your help on this in advance.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Email sent.

    Although, i really don't think this bill has a chance.
    "If you don't want to be shorn, don't be sheep!"

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    UPDATE:

    got a super fast reply from Ed Orcutt

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Orcutt
    HB 2067 looks like a pretty bad idea to take away reimbursements for defense costs when you are acquitted for self defense. Seems like if you were a victim to start with, you shouldn’t be held to pay to defend yourself when defending yourself was the whole reason for the incident in the first place. I will oppose the bill.



    Ed
    "If you don't want to be shorn, don't be sheep!"

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    This bill has been removed from the public meeting schedule for tomorrow. No explanation as to why.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2l3 View Post
    This bill has been removed from the public meeting schedule for tomorrow. No explanation as to why.
    Too many phone calls and emails....

    nice job all, but be eternally vigilant!
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Too many phone calls and emails....

    nice job all, but be eternally vigilant!
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Haven't we passed the deadline for all not "Revenue" bills to have been passed from committee and into the general session? If so, bills like this would be dead for the 2011 session.

    As for the "48th District", what do you expect from someone representing Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Medina, Clyde Hill, Hunts Point, Yarrow Point and a little bit of Issaquah.

    I certainly have no plans to move to any of those communities just to be able to vote against him and those who live there are brain dead when it comes to Self Defense. They all figure that's the job of the Police Department.
    Interestingly enough those areas are all "high-rent" areas. Filled with many who are not so concerned over the cost of a single hearing. Now if Mr. Hunter was over say... tacoma, lakewood, steilacoom, ect... I suspect his supporters would be few and far between.
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Too many phone calls and emails....

    nice job all, but be eternally vigilant!
    I agree, I took off this afternoon and delivered a synopsis to Welcher's, Bull's Eye, Mary's and the Marksman...and also sent a personal message to all of the committee members...geez, what a list.

    I'll put this bill on my watch list to monitor....

    This may have been posted in the past but I came across this as a "master list" of ranges.

    http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/shooting_ranges/ranges.php
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2l3 View Post
    This bill has been removed from the public meeting schedule for tomorrow. No explanation as to why.
    this does not mean that it is gone, it isn't. it has an official bill number and everything.

    Like gogo says....we need to be vigilant.

    I got the same response from Ed Horcutt and also this from Representative Alexander:

    Thank you for your comments. HB 2067 has been pulled from the Ways & Means Calendar and will not be heard. -----Original Message-----From: XXX

    Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 3:35 PMTo: Alexander, Rep. GarySubject:

    NC: Please do not vote this out of committee

    HOUSE INTERNET E-MAIL DELIVERY SERVICE TO: Representative Gary Alexander FROM: jt59 (Non-Constituent)
    Last edited by jt59; 04-12-2011 at 08:19 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member Bucks Gun Shop's Avatar
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    Called my representative today and was told in no uncertain terms that this will never come to pass... Course, I've been told that before!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Gun Shop View Post
    Called my representative today and was told in no uncertain terms that this will never come to pass... Course, I've been told that before!!!!
    This is the basic message that came from my Rep. also.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    The fact it would ever be considered is unconscionable to me.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  21. #21
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    More info and update from some legislators on this bill

    Here is some more responses that I recieved on this last night and this A.M., note the subtle message (my italics/bold) sent from Joe.

    From Joe Schmick

    Thank you for your message in opposition to HB 2067. It was originally scheduled for a public hearing on April 13th in the House Ways and Means Committee. The bill has been pulled from the agenda.

    We will have to wait and see if it indeed stays off the agenda for the remainder of the week.

    I have received numerous calls and emails on this topic over the last few days. Not one person has contacted me in support of the bill. I am hearing loud and clear to oppose the bill. I appreciate hearing from you.

    Sincerely, Joe Schmick
    State Representative


    From Ed Orcutt (note, my question preceeds his response)...
    From: JT59
    Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 5:47 PM
    To: Orcutt, Rep. Ed
    Subject: RE: please vote against this in committee

    Ed,

    Thank you for responding so quickly. This appeared to me to be less about budget issues being addressed as much as an thinly veiled attack on 2A rights by weakening 9.41.

    Is there actually a verifiable number floating around that can be related to the
    re-imbursement costs of those that needed to defend themselves that rationalized this bill for the sponsor in the first place?

    Please tell me I am incorrect in my suspicious nature but, while the bill got pulled from the hearing tomorrow, unfortunately it now has a shelf life.

    I'm curious now, as to how a bill can be introduced on the floor and then debated and/or voted on without any public discourse under the guise of "budget enhancement"

    ....can they attach this as a ideological policy rider like as is often done at the national level (most recent extension of spending)?


    jt

    He responded

    John,


    Bills are introduced on the floor but only to be referred to a committee. The committee chair then determines whether or not to hold a public hearing on a bill.

    If no hearing, the bill seldom advances.

    But, anyone can offer the language as an amendment to any bill having a title under which it fits.

    I did this with a bill I introduced that went nowhere this year. I got it partially approved by amending it onto a bill with a title open to it. It is a win for the taxpayers.


    And, yes, any bill introduced in the odd year is eligible to be heard and passed in the even year as well. We’ll do our best to keep this bill from passing.

    Ed

    Response from Rep. Bruce Dammier

    Thanks for the email, John. I received a message indicating that HB 2067 has been removed from the agenda today. This is likely a reaction to the strong opposition to this bill from folks back home.

    As for me, you can rest assured that unless this bill is dramatically amended, I will oppose it.

    Sincerely,

    Bruce


    We need to continue to be vigilant on this, and as for Bruce, I am not sure how this bill could ever be amended to make it pallatable!
    Last edited by jt59; 04-13-2011 at 05:26 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Get that crap outta here!

    Awesome work you guys! If they can't take our 2A and self defense rights away directly, they'll just make them too expensive to exercise. They're always looking for ways, don't let them win!

    Excellent work, stay on it!
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  23. #23
    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
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    Rep Ross hunter just sent me this

    As part of our exercise in producing a responsible budget for Washington we’re looking at a lot of options, many of which are unpleasant. We cut $4.4 billion dollars in ongoing programs in Washington in the proposal we made last week, and the impacts will be felt in many, many areas. This is one possibility.



    As part of a broader cut in indigent legal defense we considered this cut. We have decided to not advance it any further in our process this year.



    Rep. Ross Hunter

    Chair, Ways and Means

    ross.hunter@leg.wa.gov



    Read my blog at http://www.rosshunter.info



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  24. #24
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinWKuska View Post
    Rep Ross hunter just sent me this

    As part of our exercise in producing a responsible budget for Washington we’re looking at a lot of options, many of which are unpleasant. We cut $4.4 billion dollars in ongoing programs in Washington in the proposal we made last week, and the impacts will be felt in many, many areas. This is one possibility.



    As part of a broader cut in indigent legal defense we considered this cut. We have decided to not advance it any further in our process this year.



    Rep. Ross Hunter

    Chair, Ways and Means

    ross.hunter@leg.wa.gov



    Read my blog at http://www.rosshunter.info



    Mod C 105
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    Olympia, WA 98504



    Bellevue Office: (425) 453-3064 (until January)

    Olympia Office: (360) 786-7936 (January – May)
    A broader cut in indigent legal defenses?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigent


    Puleeeeeze:

    Doesn't it go....."if you cannot afford one, an attorney (public defender) will be appointed...to you"

    What the OMH is he talking about? Does not the current law provided for reimbursment (for agressive prosection), not for the financial supply of a defense.

    Sheesh
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    What Rep. Hunter doesn't recognize is that as long as this provision is in place in law, Prosecutors won't be trying to make examples out of citizens that defend themselves and as such it won't cost the State a "flipping cent".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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