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Man Arrested For Gun In Bar

Armed

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Aug 28, 2008
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From the Northern Virginia Daily:

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2011/04/pulling-gun-at-bar-gets-man-arrested.php

Pulling gun at bar gets man arrested

WINCHESTER -- A man was arrested Monday after he displayed a handgun at a city bar, police said.

Saylor was charged with public intoxication, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, brandishing the weapon and carrying a gun in the bar while intoxicated or possessing alcohol.

A man who was sitting next to Saylor at the time declined to identify himself. The bartender would not comment.


--Moderator Edit--
RESPECT COPYRIGHT HOLDERS: We often share news stories with one another. Please remember that these stories are copyrighted material and only post a fair-use excerpt along with a link where the rest of the story may be read.
 

peter nap

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From the Northern Virginia Daily:

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2011/04/pulling-gun-at-bar-gets-man-arrested.php

Pulling gun at bar gets man arrested

WINCHESTER -- A man was arrested Monday after he displayed a handgun at a city bar, police said.

Saylor was charged with public intoxication, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, brandishing the weapon and carrying a gun in the bar while intoxicated or possessing alcohol.

A man who was sitting next to Saylor at the time declined to identify himself. The bartender would not comment.


--Moderator Edit--
RESPECT COPYRIGHT HOLDERS: We often share news stories with one another. Please remember that these stories are copyrighted material and only post a fair-use excerpt along with a link where the rest of the story may be read.

Not real bright, is he?:eek:
 

JamesCanby

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Not real bright, is he?:eek:
To the extent that this story "has legs," let's see what the commentators or the press have to say about this incident, i.e., whether they concentrate on the possession of a gun in a bar*, or that the person was a convicted felon in illegal possession of a firearm no matter where he was or whether he was intoxicated.

He obviously did not care about the minor laws he was breaking, and the felon-possessing crime should send him back to the big house for a while...

I suspect, given the headline -- designed to inflame --, that we will see 'outrage' over this example of in-bar/restaurant carrying...



[*which, as we know doesn't exist in Virginia, but the headline would not have made sense by calling it a "restaurant"]
 

aadvark

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Under Virginia Law 18.2-308(J)(3) Open Carry of a Firearm into a Place Licensed to Sell Alcohol by The Virginia Alcohol Control Board, or while Intoxicated, is NOT a Crime.

Only while The Firearm is Concealed, is when a Crime is Commited.
 

peter nap

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Under Virginia Law 18.2-308(J)(3) Open Carry of a Firearm into a Place Licensed to Sell Alcohol by The Virginia Alcohol Control Board, or while Intoxicated, is NOT a Crime.

Only while The Firearm is Concealed, is when a Crime is Commited.

Yeah but only if you have a CHP!

This was one of those stupid things that is impossible to even address because the Police are just writing anything they can think of, and the Press isn't doing anything but writing what the Police give em.
 

Thundar

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Under Virginia Law 18.2-308(J)(3) Open Carry of a Firearm into a Place Licensed to Sell Alcohol by The Virginia Alcohol Control Board, or while Intoxicated, is NOT a Crime.

Only while The Firearm is Concealed, is when a Crime is Commited.

Only if you enter concealed. If you enter OC, conceal after you enter, then drink a beer, what law have you broken?
 

ocholsteroc

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Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
Only if you enter concealed. If you enter OC, conceal after you enter, then drink a beer, what law have you broken?




:banghead::confused:

So if you enter a store like applebee's that sells alcohol, while CC'ing and never drink thats a crime?

I thought the new law passed to allow CC holders to be in a place like applebee's CC'ing without OC? as long as they do not drink.:confused:
 
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t33j

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King George, VA
sed to allow CC holders to be in a place like applebee's CC'ing without OC? as long as they do not drink.:confused:

I think it's pretty clear that was their intent (not from anything in the code mind you)... but we shouldn't have to guess. The problem is we need more literate legislators.
 
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Wolf_shadow

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:banghead::confused:

So if you enter a store like applebee's that sells alcohol, while CC'ing and never drink thats a crime?

I thought the new law passed to allow CC holders to be in a place like applebee's CC'ing without OC? as long as they do not drink.:confused:

if you enter CC you are not permitted to drink alcoholic beverages. As long as you do not drink you have broken no law. If you enter OC theoretically you can legally drink alcohol and have broken no law. Personally I feal it is bad form to drink in public while armed due to apearance only. And as always remember IANAL.
 

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
Wolf_shadow said:
If you enter CC you are not permitted to drink alcoholic beverages.
If you enter OC theoretically you can legally drink alcohol and have broken no law.
Man, that's a goofy law. :confused:
(Can someone post the statute so we can see what it actually says?)

As Thundar pointed out, under the letter of the law as long as you come through the door OC you are then allowed to conceal and drink.

How would someone prove that you didn't enter OC? Because if that's an element of the 'crime', the State would have to prove that you did it that way. Unless there's a camera covering the door, they're SOL. Given that most people don't notice OC, witness statements are even less useful than they would usually be.

I wouldn't have more than maybe one beer or glass of wine with dinner while carrying.
Getting blotto is just stupid, and even more so when armed.
 

user

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"carrying a gun in the bar while intoxicated or possessing alcohol"

Just curious, what law is this violating?

TFred

Well, if he was engaged in hunting while in the "bar", § 18.2-285 would apply.

If he has a concealed carry permit, then 18.2-308 (J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ...") applies, but it's not likely a convicted felon has the permit. (Violation of the Constitutional provision regarding equal protection of the laws?) Btw, J3 applies to a concealed weapon, whether or not the person carrying has a permit.

I also wonder how "displaying" the firearm constitutes "brandishing".

Now, if they got him for spitting on the floor, or "profanely swearing" while intoxicated, that'd be good for a class-four misdemeanor.
 
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TFred

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It's probably not as difficult as some make it.

The simple fact is that the part of the law concerning CHPs and carrying into a restaurant and consuming alcohol is poorly written.

The law makes use of the phrase "person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises".

What does that mean? To a literalist, it means the law only applies to someone who crosses a property line while carrying a concealed handgun. An act that takes only a fraction of a second. I doubt any LEO or judge would agree, but of course it's new, there are no cases that I am aware of to clarify.

It is probably safer to assume that they meant you can't drink while you are carrying a concealed handgun. The status of the gun when you drove into the parking lot, or walked through the door probably doesn't really matter.

I'm sure many would argue (here) that I'm wrong. I doubt you will see them lining up to argue the point in front of a judge. :)

TFred

Here is the pertinent paragraph from the code:

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.​
 

jmelvin

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I don't see a realistic opening to legally consume alcohol for those who initially carry a sidearm onto the first portion of property that has been licensed to dispense alcohol for on premises consumption. The only possible opening I could see is if you carry your sidearm openly into an alcohol dispensary ordered your drink and then concealed your sidearm and drink your drink without moving from the exact location in which you first concealed your sidearm. If you step outside of that exact location you have stepped from one portion of the property with an concealed carried sidearm, onto another portion of the property licensed to dispense alcohol and consumed the alcohol, thereby violating the statute. In each movement once the sidearm is concealed, a person has carried a concealed handgun onto the property licensed to dispense alcohol for on site consumption, although it may be a different portion of the property licensed to dispense alcohol for on site consumption.
 
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