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Thread: OpenCarry.org blasts California bill to require long gun carry in public

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    OpenCarry.org blasts California bill to require long gun carry in public

    http://www.ammoland.com/2011/04/12/c...arry-in-public

    SNIP

    California Bill Would Require Long Gun Carry in Public & Ban Open Carry of Handguns

    OpenCarry.org
    Sacramento, California --(Ammoland.com)- Like most states, California law allows law abiding adults to openly carry properly holstered handguns without any permit. California’s law is just stricter – it, alone among all other states, requires openly carried guns to be unloaded in incorporated areas.

    California strictly bans the concealed carry of handguns, and concealed carry permits are rarely issued and when they are, it is on a “may issue” basis.

    But now Assembly Member Anthony Portantino (D – Pasadena) wants to drive a stake through the heart of the Second Amendment in California by way of AB 144, a rambling, complicated, and convoluted 99 page, 8,601 word bill to, inter alia, ban the open carry of handguns generally in California.

    Under Portantino’s scheme, citizens would essentially be required to open carry shotguns or rifles in public places like Ralph’s grocery stores, Starbucks, sidewalks, streets, and other public places. “I don’t know what Portantino is thinking,” says John Pierce, Co-founder of OpenCarry.org. “If Portantino wants guns out of sight, his bill is going to backfire,” adds Pierce.

    “Places like Santa Monica’s Third Street Promenade will look like a moving gun show when parents shoulder AR-15s and double-barreled shotguns while taking their kids out for ice cream.”

    California gun rights groups like South Bay Open Carry and the Responsible Citizens of California (RCC) also oppose Portantino’s bill.3 RCC Spokesperson Yih-Chau Chang explains that

    “We just think the Supreme Court made a lot of sense” when it held in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) that the Second Amendment protects handgun carry because handguns can be carried in a holster and aimed “with one hand while the other hand dials the police.”

    . . .

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    So are we still able to UOC our handguns >>>>>>

    Or do we move on with our forced carry of long guns?
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    Or do we move on with our forced carry of long guns?
    Unloaded open carry is still legal. The bill will now head off to the Senate. It will still need a trip to the Governor's desk for a signature. Even after all that is done, the law will not go into effect until 1-1-2012, since it is a non-urgency issue.
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    So it basically means IF passed, CA residents WON'T be able to OC(other then long guns) or CC without an almost impossible to get permit to CC??? My god, I thought CT was bad. We recently fought a bill to limit magazines to 10 rds. The show of force at the state capitol by gun owners and hunters resulted in the bill NOT being voted on(wasn't brought up in session), so it's dead for now. It sounds like gun owners in CA need to band together and show up in MASS to let your state senate know exactly how people feel about this bill. Start calling your state senators and let them know NOW how you all feel about this bill!!! Hope it all works out for you all.......
    Last edited by USAR-VET; 05-17-2011 at 03:17 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Assume long guns would still have to be unloaded. Could always carry a side by side 12 g with the rounds in your hand and gun broken open. Cowboy shooters load them pretty fast. Or the bolt locked open on an M-4 with a mag of AP incindiaries in your hand.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I have no plans to read the bill, but by the sounds of it, you there in California have one heck of a monstrocity on your hands.

    If it passes, the bill should backfire in that it would help bolster the legal case for 'shall issue' concealed carry.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    Assume long guns would still have to be unloaded.
    I was wondering that myself.

    And my brother wonders why I don't want to come visit him...
    Why on Earth would I go into Commiefornia with such an anti-civil-rights culture?
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Mike - have you seen the light?

    Mike,

    I do not want to misconstrue your posting, but what I got from the posting was:

    The OCDO position on Long Gun Open Carry is - Handgun carry is better than long gun open carry (LGOC) but Open carry of long guns is better than forced disarmament so advocating LGOC for those that are barred from handgun carry is OK on OCDO, right? -

    Please correct me if I have misread your article.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Issues of trigger coverage and muzzle control are eliminated by using a scabbard.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 05-18-2011 at 12:58 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Mike,

    I do not want to misconstrue your posting, but what I got from the posting was:

    The OCDO position on Long Gun Open Carry is - Handgun carry is better than long gun open carry (LGOC) but Open carry of long guns is better than forced disarmament so advocating LGOC for those that are barred from handgun carry is OK on OCDO, right? -

    Please correct me if I have misread your article.
    Think you read too much into it.

    If you don't have rules, you can't have exceptions and Mike and John as owners are the ones deciding the exceptions to the rule.
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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    [...] If it passes, the bill should backfire in that it would help bolster the legal case for 'shall issue' concealed carry.
    One would think so, but there was just recently a CA court ruling that our state's "may issue" policy on CCW permits does not infringe on the 2A because we have Unloaded Open Carry.

    Gotta love it when they set the dominoes up to fall in their favor...
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    But we may not have come 1/1/2012

    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    One would think so, but there was just recently a CA court ruling that our state's "may issue" policy on CCW permits does not infringe on the 2A because we have Unloaded Open Carry.

    Gotta love it when they set the dominoes up to fall in their favor...
    So then after the public outrage of seeing hundreds of thousands(sic) of UOC long guns..we will all be lining up for CCW permits as Kalifornia will become a "Shall Issue" state or not


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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    So then after the public outrage of seeing hundreds of thousands(sic) of UOC long guns..we will all be lining up for CCW permits as Kalifornia will become a "Shall Issue" state or not
    Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

    Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

    We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.

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    Back Door Shall Issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

    Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

    We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.
    Hey Hgreen,

    I concur with your point.

    The tactic to use a UOC ban to force a judge (or SCOTUS) to rule that "shall issue" is the law of "commiefornia" (MKEgal) is full of risk. SCOTUS has hinted that OC is constitutional while CC is subject to severe regulation (my last sentence is not quite accurate, but it stands for brevity reasons).

    Could a court just ejudicate the issue at hand--which in consideration that UOC is illegal then "shall issue" must be the law of the land--and state in their judgement that CCW is a priveledge subject to severe regulation by a state. At that time, we would not have "shall issue" nor UOC, and we would still have PC 626 (GFSZ).

    If I were a left-wing judge interested in putting forth my neo-Marxist agenda, I would rule that "may issue" is legal, and then ask the question: Why didn't you ask about the constitutionality of outlawing OC or UOC, and is 626 constitutional? Sorry plaintiff, you lose!

    markm

    PS: Hgreen, I know I paraphrased your post; however, our community needs to answer this question and repetition is needed.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    It was already posted to opposing views.

    Link: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/calif...cealed-weapons

    Will Gov. Moonbeam sign, veto or abdicate (Let it become law without his signature)?

    I bet he signs it!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    If UOC is banned what option for self defense have we got >>>>

    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

    Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

    We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.
    Other than Long Gun Open Carry or the issuance of CCW permits....It would seem that the 2nd amendment doesn't exist to our senators ...the right to bear arms...Pah!! It's all a big joke ...any shooting incident be it at a school or at a political rally is instantly put to the forefront of every single media outlet to highlight the fact that "guns are dangerous in the wrong hands", No @#$% sherlock stop the criminals getting their hands on the guns and the world would be a safer place ....no chance of that scenario though....Criminals will always have access to guns and we are heading to become a nation of unarmed individuals who will resort to protecting ourselves and our families using any other means....in the disarmed nations of the world a huge blackmarket exists for weapons and a thriving market it is.....Our founding fathers were killed and became killers to allow us the right to bear arms and it should have never been in vain. There are a growing number of "gun enthusiasts" who have seen this UOC ban becoming law in the near future and are gearing up with Long guns, shotguns, ARs and AK variants to allow LGOC (something that is taboo to the UOC crowd )as the only available option in the event of non issue of CCW...for whatever reason seen fit by the sheriff of the county...remember "Self defense" is not a good cause to get you a CCW permit. We wait to see what will happen if/when this UOC gets banned ...tactical shotguns are under threat of a ban if the senators have their way.... We could always arm ourselves with clubs, axes. spears like they used to in the good ole days but some criminal with a blackmarket gun will kill you.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    We could always arm ourselves with clubs, axes. spears like they used to in the good ole days but some criminal with a blackmarket gun will kill you.
    We are already at a big disadvantage in California when we carry unloaded and the criminals are carrying loaded.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    We are already at a big disadvantage in California when we carry unloaded and the criminals are carrying loaded.
    I guess the good news is that most criminals have never heard of the Tueller Drill.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Tueller Drill recap

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I guess the good news is that most criminals have never heard of the Tueller Drill.
    In case you guys have no clue what the Tueller Drill is see link below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIZw5bx8-Eo

    A fascinating insight especially if you have someone who can really run fast ...remember the 21 foot rule for knife weilding attackers ....its a good basis for your own defense..Stay safe out there
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    I lived in Santa Cruz and Monterey County for 17 years. I truly feel for you guys and gals. Missouri is a pro 2A state. Class III NFA weapon legal, Cans legal along with high capacity magazines. Conceal carry legal with a permit, open carry without a permit is legal in most cities and counties. The best part is anyone over the age of 23 ( tourist from another country included or another state) can have a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a permit.

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Sorry mods

    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    So then after the public outrage of seeing hundreds of thousands(sic) of UOC long guns..we will all be lining up for CCW permits as Kalifornia will become a "Shall Issue" state or not


    .....................--Moderator Note--
    At one time we had people posting strings of bananas and such to bring false attention to their posts. Then for a while, OCDO limited to any one post, including quotes, to a maximum. This created a problem when emoticons were used in the quoted material and the responder could not therefore use any - the allowance was exceeded.

    To avoid that conflict the limit was lifted with the determination that individual cases would be addressed. Let's not get into the "banana wars again."
    Next time I'll just highlight my post as needed as the bananas and emoticons are childish ok for facebook and the like but not in our adult forum
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAR-VET View Post
    So it basically means IF passed, CA residents WON'T be able to OC(other then long guns) or CC without an almost impossible to get permit to CC??? My god, I thought CT was bad. We recently fought a bill to limit magazines to 10 rds. The show of force at the state capitol by gun owners and hunters resulted in the bill NOT being voted on(wasn't brought up in session), so it's dead for now. It sounds like gun owners in CA need to band together and show up in MASS to let your state senate know exactly how people feel about this bill. Start calling your state senators and let them know NOW how you all feel about this bill!!! Hope it all works out for you all.......
    well you see the problem is. that we'll do that and they'll still ignore us or poiltely tell us go **** yourself im gonna vote how i want. my father wrote the state Rep. and got a letter back basically saying what was previously mentioned. the issue really is that the people that we use to write our laws are scared shitless of the idea of the good guys being civilians. if we allowed open carry who would want to rob a store or shoplift. my view is that if everyone that can show profiency in a firearm should be allowed to loaded open carry. the law in my area has the worst responce time. so if i was given the abilty to prevent the crime or scare the assailant off i don't think their too likely to break into wherever again. Thoughts anyone?

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    United "States" of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Matrixone976 View Post
    well you see the problem is. that we'll do that and they'll still ignore us or poiltely tell us go **** yourself im gonna vote how i want. my father wrote the state Rep. and got a letter back basically saying what was previously mentioned. the issue really is that the people that we use to write our laws are scared shitless of the idea of the good guys being civilians. if we allowed open carry who would want to rob a store or shoplift. my view is that if everyone that can show profiency in a firearm should be allowed to loaded open carry. the law in my area has the worst responce time. so if i was given the abilty to prevent the crime or scare the assailant off i don't think their too likely to break into wherever again. Thoughts anyone?
    You would think that someone somewhere would actually make it law that what is good for one "state" is good for another. LOC and CCW is now lawful in various states so why not in every state? Why have different laws for different states? Maybe I don't get it but seems pretty simple to me. Obviously this will cause a firestorm of answers and I realize that we cannot pick and choose what laws we like and adopt but isn't that the case as of today? Could you imagine if the USA was devoid of guns rifles and ammo? We'd all be speaking English English or Japanese OMG!!!!

    "Happy Independence Day America"
    Last edited by EXTREMEOPS1; 07-04-2011 at 09:24 AM.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    Maybe when California succeeds and becomes the 51st state, we will have it are way.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Maybe when California succeeds and becomes the 51st state, we will have it are way.
    I nominate myself as the spelling and grammar monitor of the day.

    California is and shall always be the 31st state in the Union. Secession wouldnt alter this order, however splitting California into two or more parts would create a new state, which then would be the 51st state. If California secedes, it would become its own nation, absent any coalition of other states. Judging on how the government is currently adminstered, gun loving, liberty minded folks like us would not have it our way- instead we would see the state descend deeper into a socialist oligarchy, to the point of prohibiting all things assumed to be dangerous, evil, or ugly and mandating tolerance of everything deemed to be good for you, whether you like it or not.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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