• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OpenCarry.org blasts California bill to require long gun carry in public

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/04/12/california-bill-would-require-long-gun-carry-in-public

SNIP

California Bill Would Require Long Gun Carry in Public & Ban Open Carry of Handguns

OpenCarry.org
Sacramento, California --(Ammoland.com)- Like most states, California law allows law abiding adults to openly carry properly holstered handguns without any permit. California’s law is just stricter – it, alone among all other states, requires openly carried guns to be unloaded in incorporated areas.

California strictly bans the concealed carry of handguns, and concealed carry permits are rarely issued and when they are, it is on a “may issue” basis.

But now Assembly Member Anthony Portantino (D – Pasadena) wants to drive a stake through the heart of the Second Amendment in California by way of AB 144, a rambling, complicated, and convoluted 99 page, 8,601 word bill to, inter alia, ban the open carry of handguns generally in California.

Under Portantino’s scheme, citizens would essentially be required to open carry shotguns or rifles in public places like Ralph’s grocery stores, Starbucks, sidewalks, streets, and other public places. “I don’t know what Portantino is thinking,” says John Pierce, Co-founder of OpenCarry.org. “If Portantino wants guns out of sight, his bill is going to backfire,” adds Pierce.

“Places like Santa Monica’s Third Street Promenade will look like a moving gun show when parents shoulder AR-15s and double-barreled shotguns while taking their kids out for ice cream.”

California gun rights groups like South Bay Open Carry and the Responsible Citizens of California (RCC) also oppose Portantino’s bill.3 RCC Spokesperson Yih-Chau Chang explains that

“We just think the Supreme Court made a lot of sense” when it held in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) that the Second Amendment protects handgun carry because handguns can be carried in a holster and aimed “with one hand while the other hand dials the police.”

. . .
 

USAR-VET

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
44
Location
Northern CT
So it basically means IF passed, CA residents WON'T be able to OC(other then long guns) or CC without an almost impossible to get permit to CC??? My god, I thought CT was bad. We recently fought a bill to limit magazines to 10 rds. The show of force at the state capitol by gun owners and hunters resulted in the bill NOT being voted on(wasn't brought up in session), so it's dead for now. It sounds like gun owners in CA need to band together and show up in MASS to let your state senate know exactly how people feel about this bill. Start calling your state senators and let them know NOW how you all feel about this bill!!! Hope it all works out for you all.......
 
Last edited:

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Assume long guns would still have to be unloaded. Could always carry a side by side 12 g with the rounds in your hand and gun broken open. Cowboy shooters load them pretty fast. Or the bolt locked open on an M-4 with a mag of AP incindiaries in your hand.
 

OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
750
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
I have no plans to read the bill, but by the sounds of it, you there in California have one heck of a monstrocity on your hands.

If it passes, the bill should backfire in that it would help bolster the legal case for 'shall issue' concealed carry.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Gunslinger said:
Assume long guns would still have to be unloaded.
I was wondering that myself.

And my brother wonders why I don't want to come visit him...
Why on Earth would I go into Commiefornia with such an anti-civil-rights culture?
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Mike - have you seen the light?

Mike,

I do not want to misconstrue your posting, but what I got from the posting was:

The OCDO position on Long Gun Open Carry is - Handgun carry is better than long gun open carry (LGOC) but Open carry of long guns is better than forced disarmament so advocating LGOC for those that are barred from handgun carry is OK on OCDO, right? -

Please correct me if I have misread your article.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Mike,

I do not want to misconstrue your posting, but what I got from the posting was:

The OCDO position on Long Gun Open Carry is - Handgun carry is better than long gun open carry (LGOC) but Open carry of long guns is better than forced disarmament so advocating LGOC for those that are barred from handgun carry is OK on OCDO, right? -

Please correct me if I have misread your article.

Think you read too much into it.

If you don't have rules, you can't have exceptions and Mike and John as owners are the ones deciding the exceptions to the rule. :lol:
 

demnogis

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
911
Location
Orange County, California, USA
[...] If it passes, the bill should backfire in that it would help bolster the legal case for 'shall issue' concealed carry.
One would think so, but there was just recently a CA court ruling that our state's "may issue" policy on CCW permits does not infringe on the 2A because we have Unloaded Open Carry.

Gotta love it when they set the dominoes up to fall in their favor...
 

EXTREMEOPS1

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
248
Location
Escondido CA
But we may not have come 1/1/2012

One would think so, but there was just recently a CA court ruling that our state's "may issue" policy on CCW permits does not infringe on the 2A because we have Unloaded Open Carry.

Gotta love it when they set the dominoes up to fall in their favor...
So then after the public outrage of seeing hundreds of thousands(sic) of UOC long guns..we will all be lining up for CCW permits as Kalifornia will become a "Shall Issue" state:banana: or not :banghead:


.....................--Moderator Note--
At one time we had people posting strings of bananas and such to bring false attention to their posts. Then for a while, OCDO limited to any one post, including quotes, to a maximum. This created a problem when emoticons were used in the quoted material and the responder could not therefore use any - the allowance was exceeded.

To avoid that conflict the limit was lifted with the determination that individual cases would be addressed. Let's not get into the "banana wars again."
 

hgreen

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
470
Location
Centreville, VA
So then after the public outrage of seeing hundreds of thousands(sic) of UOC long guns..we will all be lining up for CCW permits as Kalifornia will become a "Shall Issue" state:banana: or not :banghead:

Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.
 

markm

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
487
Location
, ,
Back Door Shall Issue.

Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.

Hey Hgreen,

I concur with your point.

The tactic to use a UOC ban to force a judge (or SCOTUS) to rule that "shall issue" is the law of "commiefornia" (MKEgal) is full of risk. SCOTUS has hinted that OC is constitutional while CC is subject to severe regulation (my last sentence is not quite accurate, but it stands for brevity reasons).

Could a court just ejudicate the issue at hand--which in consideration that UOC is illegal then "shall issue" must be the law of the land--and state in their judgement that CCW is a priveledge subject to severe regulation by a state. At that time, we would not have "shall issue" nor UOC, and we would still have PC 626 (GFSZ).

If I were a left-wing judge interested in putting forth my neo-Marxist agenda, I would rule that "may issue" is legal, and then ask the question: Why didn't you ask about the constitutionality of outlawing OC or UOC, and is 626 constitutional? Sorry plaintiff, you lose!

markm

PS: Hgreen, I know I paraphrased your post; however, our community needs to answer this question and repetition is needed.
 

EXTREMEOPS1

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
248
Location
Escondido CA
If UOC is banned what option for self defense have we got >>>>

Why do so many assume that if we lose UOC in CA that CCW shall issue will be forced??

Based on federal court rulings it seems far more likely that a challenge of the UOC ban and then a challenge on the unloaded portion would do far better for our cause.

We now have two federal judges ruling that open carry satisfies Heller. Sounds like challenging the law forcing the U in UOC as well as the 1000' GFSZs would fair far better than forcing the government to give out permission slips for something the courts have deemed to be a privilege.
Other than Long Gun Open Carry or the issuance of CCW permits....It would seem that the 2nd amendment doesn't exist to our senators ...the right to bear arms...Pah!! It's all a big joke ...any shooting incident be it at a school or at a political rally is instantly put to the forefront of every single media outlet to highlight the fact that "guns are dangerous in the wrong hands", No @#$% sherlock stop the criminals getting their hands on the guns and the world would be a safer place ....no chance of that scenario though....Criminals will always have access to guns and we are heading to become a nation of unarmed individuals who will resort to protecting ourselves and our families using any other means....in the disarmed nations of the world a huge blackmarket exists for weapons and a thriving market it is.....Our founding fathers were killed and became killers to allow us the right to bear arms and it should have never been in vain. There are a growing number of "gun enthusiasts" who have seen this UOC ban becoming law in the near future and are gearing up with Long guns, shotguns, ARs and AK variants to allow LGOC (something that is taboo to the UOC crowd )as the only available option in the event of non issue of CCW...for whatever reason seen fit by the sheriff of the county...remember "Self defense" is not a good cause to get you a CCW permit. We wait to see what will happen if/when this UOC gets banned ...tactical shotguns are under threat of a ban if the senators have their way.... We could always arm ourselves with clubs, axes. spears like they used to in the good ole days but some criminal with a blackmarket gun will kill you.
 

EXTREMEOPS1

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
248
Location
Escondido CA
Tueller Drill recap

I guess the good news is that most criminals have never heard of the Tueller Drill.

In case you guys have no clue what the Tueller Drill is see link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIZw5bx8-Eo

A fascinating insight especially if you have someone who can really run fast ...remember the 21 foot rule for knife weilding attackers ....its a good basis for your own defense..Stay safe out there
 

ThePhotog

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Missouri
I lived in Santa Cruz and Monterey County for 17 years. I truly feel for you guys and gals. Missouri is a pro 2A state. Class III NFA weapon legal, Cans legal along with high capacity magazines. Conceal carry legal with a permit, open carry without a permit is legal in most cities and counties. The best part is anyone over the age of 23 ( tourist from another country included or another state) can have a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a permit.
 
Top