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Thread: Open carry declared to be 'Looking to get busted'

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Open carry declared to be 'Looking to get busted'

    http://www.ctguntalk.com/smf/conceal...3159/#msg33159

    Some of our fellow 'pro-gun'/'pro-rights' people can be our own worst enemies.

    We have people in our community that believe that not concealing your firearm is 'going out looking to be busted' and that unlawful detainment and arrest are justified if you do.

    This is the same mentality as the people who believe that women who wear 'short' skirts are looking to be raped, or a person of a certain race walking in an area where he is a minority is looking for trouble. Would we support the criminals or the victims in those cases?

    Sadly, the politicians and the anti-gun groups in this state are not our only problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMax_VMF114
    Sorry man but your on your own.If it was a case like Goldbergs i would support ya But you went out looking to get busted and take one for the Team which i find stupid.And now you want folks to help ya?? Sorry ill pass!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbiker
    I agree with Max. The law should be challenged but, instigation is not the way. I read your blog last night after you posted this. I live in Meriden and didn't know about the Yale Billiards incident. I wish you good luck with this.
    Last edited by Rich B; 04-13-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    http://www.ctguntalk.com/smf/conceal...3159/#msg33159

    Some of our fellow 'pro-gun'/'pro-rights' people can be our own worst enemies.

    We have people in our community that believe that not concealing your firearm is 'going out looking to be busted' and that unlawful detainment and arrest are justified if you do.

    This is the same mentality as the people who believe that women who wear 'short' skirts are looking to be raped, or a person of a certain race walking in an area where he is a minority is looking for trouble. Would we support the criminals or the victims in those cases?

    Sadly, the politicians and the anti-gun groups in this state are not our only problems.
    I can't sign in to read the post from your link. Can you paste it?

  3. #3
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    http://www.ctguntalk.com/smf/conceal...3159/#msg33159
    This is the same mentality as the people who believe that women who wear 'short' skirts are looking to be raped, or a person of a certain race walking in an area where he is a minority is looking for trouble. Would we support the criminals or the victims in those cases?
    +1 my brotha, +1.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I can't sign in to read the post from your link. Can you paste it?
    Done and done. I forgot they don't want their public forum to be seen by the public. *sigh*

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    Re: Announcement: Attorney Rachel Baird takes on Wallingford OC case
    Reply #3 on: Today at 06:15:18 PM

    C'mon guys. If you don't want to donate thats one thing, but you have to respect what Rich B is doing. He is simply obeying the law! I spend alot of time on this forum as well as opencarry.com and Rich is very active in fighting for gun rights, and not just his own rights, but all of our rights as well. Personally, I prefer to carry concealed, and thats my choice, but it doesn't make it any better or more right than to open carry because both are allowed under CT state law. I don't often post on these forums, and I don't personally know Rich, but reading this upset me. Whether you agree with him or not, you have to respect what Rich is doing.
    Not my best work, but I couldn't believe what I was reading over there.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgrindrod View Post
    Not my best work, but I couldn't believe what I was reading over there.
    I appreciate it, but this is what I expected out of ctguntalk. You have plenty of people there who do not care for rights like they pretend to.

    My favorites are the people who think that all attorneys work on contingency, as well as the ones who think we 'had open carry' when everyone was too afraid to do it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    How many of them made it to testify for bills other than the infamous mag limit bill?

    I'm just sayin'.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    The people there arguing the most vocally know the least about the case. They think I had a recorder running in Wallingford (wish I did), and think that I was 'looking to get busted' while recording.

    There will always be people out there that are ignorant and arrogant and don't want to just admit that they are not pro-freedom like they pretend to be.
    Last edited by Rich B; 04-14-2011 at 07:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Still, that 911 call still is hilarious. Maybe not your recording, but..........

    Don't remember the quotes, but:

    911 dispatcher Did he leave, where did he go
    caller: He's waiting for you..... on the bench outside!

    However that went, I still remember that to be rather funny as hell, dunno why.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    911 dispatcher Did he leave, where did he go
    caller: He's waiting for you..... on the bench outside!

    However that went, I still remember that to be rather funny as hell, dunno why.
    Even better are the statements from the officers during the IA investigation that claim that they responded with lights and sirens because there was a (mistaken) report (only from the dispatcher as far as I can see) that I was 'pacing' in front of the hall. They believed that pacing was an indication that I (apparently) was about to do something dangerous.

    Pacing. That was their standard of proof for why they risked people's lives to respond to a law abiding citizen lawfully and peacefully carrying a firearm.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    The trolling on that site is sad and unfortunate. It is like the 4chan of CT gun forums.

    Such serious topics being addressed and announced that could seriously impact the rights of people in this state and they instead choose to lie, preach and post videos instead of taking anything seriously.

    It is interesting (although I would hope anecdotal) that those particular revolver guys (not all revolver guys of course) seem to be the most vocal against everyone else's rights. Kind of goes into the whole "I hunt with my bolt action rifle, all you guys carrying Glocks are screwing it up for the rest of us". Would they change their mind if I was carrying a revolver instead of a Glock while open carrying? Maybe that is still to radical for them, maybe it has to be a cap and ball pistol?

    That and the "I support open carry as long as you don't do it" runs strong there despite it seeming to be a vocal minority.

    How does one open carry while not 'looking to get busted' in this state in their opinion?
    Last edited by Rich B; 04-14-2011 at 11:13 AM.

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    Unhappy

    there's alot of gun owners thats say they support gun rights or 2-amendment . but they never show or even if you ask them too open carry with you. they will back out or say.(you looking for trouble if we open carry) that's why people should stand up for right to fight for there RIGHT'S. some just say alot words. but never back it up. i agree with RICH B and KIX and others that i did'nt mention support movement and cause. people or gun owners out there please get involved i don't want to hear words. i want see ACTION! so go out there and support the ones that is doing something about it. join them in the fight. THEY GOT MY SUPPORT ANYTIME. also we need more open carriers. because the other 40-plus states are doing it. CT stop being a gun shy state and get out there and exercise your rights before you lose it. Alex EastHartford CT
    Last edited by Alex.EastHartford.; 04-15-2011 at 07:15 PM.

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    No way I have time for 11 pages of that stuff, I skimmed over some of it and it seems like people taking issue with methods not goals or OC in general...
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    there's alot of gun owners thats say they support gun rights or 2-amendment . but they never show or even if you ask them too open carry with you. they will back out or say.(you looking for trouble if we open carry) that's why people should stand up for right to fight for there RIGHT'S. some just say alot words. but never back it up. i agree with RICH B and KIX and others that i did'nt mention support movement and cause. people or gun owners out there please get involved i don't want to hear words. i want see ACTION! so go out there and support the ones that is doing something about it. join them in the fight. THEY GOT MY SUPPORT ANYTIME. also we need more open carriers. because the other 40-plus states are doing it. CT stop being a gun shy state and get out there and exercise your rights before you lose it. Alex EastHartford CT
    +1

    Alex, you are a true patriot, I am proud to be on the same side you are.

  15. #15
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    What is scary.....

    Pacing in front, open carrying and knowledge that the cops were coming are...... I know I'll catch heat for this statement, enough grounds for a terry stop.

    Before I get flamed..... please note: I don't agree with it, but it is what I've seen in the courts monitoring other cases. I don't think you'll find many a judge that will say the terry stop wasn't justifiable.

    Alex, I do what I can for the movement, as does Rich. Don't think there should be a movement for a constitutional right, but that's another story......

    And Rich.....

    4chan of gun sites, you owe me wipes for my keyboard..... I spit up coffee as I read that!!!! Funny as hell.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Pacing in front, open carrying and knowledge that the cops were coming are...... I know I'll catch heat for this statement, enough grounds for a terry stop
    What about that gave them RAS of a crime? Hell, what would be the crime?
    Even the police on scene later admitted that they were wrong in why they detained and arrested me.
    Last edited by Rich B; 04-15-2011 at 11:47 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Again...... didn't say it was right.

    Pacing.

    I've actually seen cases where pacing was enough (not open carry cases, but back when I did legal research years ago).

    Don't recall what the case was, but it was here in CT. Pacing = nervousness. Nervousness was reason enough to allow a terry stop.

    If I remember correctly, the "Terry" was Terry v Ohio........ that case was horrible for civil rights.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Again...... didn't say it was right.

    Pacing.

    I've actually seen cases where pacing was enough (not open carry cases, but back when I did legal research years ago).

    Don't recall what the case was, but it was here in CT. Pacing = nervousness. Nervousness was reason enough to allow a terry stop.

    If I remember correctly, the "Terry" was Terry v Ohio........ that case was horrible for civil rights.

    Jonathan
    There was never any pacing, even if there was, pacing is not a crime. RAS for a specific crime. Terry v Ohio was very clear.

  19. #19
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh, but then the Terry argument comes in where it was stated:

    As I stated above..... I disagree with the Terry v. Ohio case. It is a complete slap in the face for otherwise law abiding citizens to get searched.

    There are clear statements in the case that prelude that they had the perceivable right to search you and take your weapon (it makes no mention of whether open carry is legal or not, purely the presence of a weapon).

    In Ohio, the supreme court noted:

    Chief Justice Warren on the opinion of the Court:

    "The sole justification of the search ... is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer." (392 U.S. 1, at 29)

    Key point here is "The protection of the police officer and others nearby".

    Though it is abused, there is precedent that has been upheld in both Ohio and the Supreme Court.

    What I think is interesting in this case, as it applies to open carry is....... what is reasonable when the firearm is in plain sight?

    It may take a case to go all the way up the court system to address the issue.

    I'm just playing the devils advocate,

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I still have no idea how any of that authorizes an officer to walk up, search, seize and arrest just based on the presence of a weapon and without any reasonable suspicion of a crime.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Your problem in CT (and most of the NE corridor sans VT) is cultural acceptance. The visual presence of a gun is automatically associated with criminal intent, regardless of any other obvious factors. Regional hoplophobia is endemic.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    Your problem in CT (and most of the NE corridor sans VT) is cultural acceptance. The visual presence of a gun is automatically associated with criminal intent, regardless of any other obvious factors. Regional hoplophobia is endemic.
    Sounds like a self perpetuating myth to me.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Ahhhhh, but then the Terry argument comes in where it was stated:

    Snip: Key point here is "The protection of the police officer and others nearby".

    Jonathan
    What you're missing is there must be specific evidence of a crime before the search for officer safety kicks in. Pacing <> Crime

  24. #24
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Sounds like a self perpetuating myth to me.
    It would appear (in reality) that the myth is factual; otherwise nobody'd be afraid of being 'busted' or hassled for openly carrying a handgun would there?

  25. #25
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    What you're missing is there must be specific evidence of a crime before the search for officer safety kicks in. Pacing <> Crime
    Everything I read in the case says nothing about a crime has to have already been committed.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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