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Thread: Utah "Permission Slip" Class by the Yellow Cat with the M-4

  1. #1
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Utah "Permission Slip" Class by the Yellow Cat with the M-4

    Dear Friends and former neighbors.

    I have business on the East Coast during the last week in April and my firm is flying me back via Milwaukee with a 5 day layover in Milwaukee where I will be staying with friends in the Burlington area on a badly needed vacation. Many of you know that I am credentialed as an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol - Rifle - & Home Defense, as well as an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer. I am also a Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit (permission slip) Instructor. And, I am a member of Wisconsin Carry and a former Wisconsin resident who was active in the early days of Open Carry.

    Many of you have likewise seen vendors post the Utah Concealed Firearms Course at $100+ and that is the going rate so far from Utah. Here in Utah, the rock bottom rate is $40.00 per person for a guaranteed class of 10 - 15 students. However, the armed yellow cat is doing the "price buster" thing and will teach the Utah permission slip class in Wisconsin. However, to keep the price low, I need cooperation from prospective students.

    I will be in Wisconsin over the weekend of April 29th and April 30th and will not be available after Tuesday, the 3rd of May. While I would like to do a large class, I could be available for small classes. (So much is my love of the 2nd Amendment and my appreciation of my friends in Wisconsin.) I could teach the large class on either Saturday the 29th or Sunday the 30th - or possibly both if the demand is high enough.

    In a few days, I will post a link to the required course materials. All students must have them, but I teach my course from interactive slides provided by NRA (for the firearms familiarity portion of the Utah Course) and use the Utah Instructor course slides to teach Utah Administrative procedures, Utah law, and Federal Law. I will not be discussing Wisconsin law as it is outside the scope of the course. Thus, to keep costs low, all students must have downloaded the required course materials and be prepared with the printout in class. I cannot accept students who have not either downloaded the course or who do not have a computer to download it from a thumb drive I will have with me.

    If I have more than a few students, unless nearly all students have laptop computers, I will need a computer projector. Because I am flying and cannot risk damage to mine as a checked bag, this is a must. I do not have a location yet, but I do have access to an aircraft hanger at the East Troy airport. If somebody has an alternate site, I will consider it, but I must limit my travel due to restrictions on my personal transportation options. McX has agreed to me my Wisconsin coordinator.

    Price Buster Fee Schedule:

    Combat Veterans course fee = $10.00 (Spouses or adult children of combat veterans = $15.00)
    Other US Veterans course fee = $15.00 (Spouses or adult children of US veterans = $20.00)
    Active or retired law enforcement course fee = $15.00 (Spouses or adult children of LEO = $20.)
    Members of Wisconsin Carry course fee = $20.00 (non member spouses or adult children = $25.00)
    Non-Members of Wisconsin Carry who are NRA Members course fee = $30.00
    General Public who are not members of NRA or WI Carry course fee = $40.00 (same as in Utah)
    Persons already having a Utah permission slip who just want a refresher = chip in on buying my lunch.

    I will accept personal checks but I cannot take plastic.

    I am also not going to be able to transport my own firearms to demonstrate safe loading and unloading. I have use of a .38 Snub Nose, but need to borrow a 9mm from somebody. I have .38 Special and 9mm dummy rounds for this purpose that I will be sending to McX ahead of time. He will ship them back to me. (TSA would go nuts if they saw NRA snap caps on radar because the use real shell casings, but no primer, no powder, and the bullet is orange plastic.)

    So, while I am sorry about the length of this post, all that I have included is necessary information that you would all ask of me anyway. I do not know, nor does anyone on this forum know, what form a Wisconsin Concealed Carry Law may end up being. But, the Utah permit and Florida permit are the most recognized in the country. I personally hope Wisconsin gets Constitutional Carry, but if not, a Utah "permission slip" will come in handy for those who travel. And, if Illinois gets their concealed carry law before WI, the Utah permit just might be good in Illinois.

    McX is the coordinator so please send him your RSVP and whether you can help with the things I have posted I may need help with.

    Jim
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  2. #2
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    That's the same weekend as our firearms fun weekend, so I would love to be there, but I have to be up here. Let me know next time you do one.
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    Regular Member civilwarguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    either Saturday the 29th or Sunday the 30th
    Do you mean friday the 39th and saturday the 30th or did you mean saturday the 30th and sunday the 1st?

    either way i have an reenactment to do that weekend and 3rd shift at work unfortunately unless you ment friday durring the day then i may beable to attend.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Just how big is this book I have to print?

    Forgot to add a thank you for the offer. Very cool of you to do.
    Last edited by AaronS; 04-13-2011 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Forgot to add

  5. #5
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    Man, I'd so go and take your class if I wasn't already going to be in Milwaukee the weekend before. The week you're in town I'll be back in Menomonie. Hope you all have fun.
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    Regular Member xd40arff's Avatar
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    I may have 2-3 people that would like to attend. Let me check with my dad and girlfriend tomorrow.

  7. #7
    McX
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    Ok guys and gals; the gaunlet has been thrown down, the line drawn in the sand, the bloods and cripps are in the liquor store. A member, JPM is willing to travel a long way, and take time from his visit with his family members to offer us an opportunity at k-mart prices, because our affiliation with WisconsinCarry. Let's see what we can all do to show our appreciation, and make him feel welcome during his visit. Once we settle on a time and place, i could use help from an Open Carrier in the area of the class to help me organize something social. Maybe we get together, after class and go carry and eat somewhere, or perhapse disarm, and go suck a beer and solve the world's problems together, but let's make this happen. Check with JPM, but i'd say, those who already hold Utah permits may want to come and audit the class (no fee, no credit) to refresh their training, I'm going, and so is my oldest- i told him it was mandatory training required by the continuing education segment of his employer.......that would be me. I know were all buisy, and this event may bump others, but just as we showed in Sussex, we are a united, and social group. I hope to see you there. Anyone who can help me PM me, and let's get working on this. Yeah, i know, permits? we dont need no steenkin permits, but the other states have them, and nothing would make me smile more than; if wisconsin sets up a permit system, and grants reciprocity- to deprive them of revenue by 'running' on an out of state permit instead of a Wisconsin one. Can i get a hell yeah, will i see you there?!

    added on edit; anyone who knows me, knows i'm a 'collector' kind of guy. Adding Utah to the collection in my wallet will be like adding another year sticker onto my Wisconsin license plate, which already has them stacked a quarter of an inch thick on the plate. The more the merrier!
    Last edited by McX; 04-14-2011 at 09:05 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX
    I'm going, and so is my oldest - i told him it was mandatory training required by the continuing education segment of his employer... that would be me.
    Wish I had a cool employer who required neat training like that.

    if wisconsin sets up a permit system, and grants reciprocity, to deprive them of revenue by 'running' on an out of state permit instead of a Wisconsin one.
    Most states w/ reciprocity require their residents to have an in-state permit.
    IF WI tries to go with permits, that little bugaboo had better be absent.
    But yes, it would be extremely cool to deprive both the State and the "we want permits" local instructors who charge high fees for their classes.

    I've already PM'd with offers to help, though we really need people who are local to the Burlington area to set up places for the class & lunch & hopefully shooting.
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Just an fyi for anyone wondering what else is involved, I'm sure Jpm will go over everything.
    Another idea for a projector might be an LCD tv that can be hooked up to a laptop???

    Still required but not stated

    Fingerprinting (local PD usually $10-15)
    Passport regulated color photo
    Send check for $65.25 Payable to "Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification"and application to Utah
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  10. #10
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I'm interested but I am booked Saturday the 30th of April.

    So I'm a bit confused about the OP. Are the classes on the last Sat and Sunday of this month? If so I could do Sunday.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  11. #11
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    I won't be able to make it this time, thanks a ton for the offer though.

    Are the slides the transparency type or are they digital? I have access to a couple few digitals (unless one of the company thieves have walked away with them). If you have no luck tracking down a overhead projector let me know, I should be able to get one from work and ship it down to MCx, ya'll can ship it back up after you're done with it. Probably won't be anything terribly fancy, but, it'll work better than nothing at all.

  12. #12
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Cool Please don't shoot the messenger....

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ....
    Most states w/ reciprocity require their residents to have an in-state permit.
    IF WI tries to go with permits, that little bugaboo had better be absent.
    But yes, it would be extremely cool to deprive both the State and the "we want permits" local instructors who charge high fees for their classes....
    I believe that Utah just passed or is about to pass a law that will require non-resident holders of their CCW card to have a permit from their home state if it is offered....
    Last edited by davegran; 04-14-2011 at 07:24 PM.
    Dave
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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Some Clarification and Answers To Questions

    Here is some further clarification, answers to questions, and one correction of dates.

    1) The weekend dates I could teach the Utah "permission slip" class are Saturday, April 30, 2011 and/or Sunday, May 1, 2011. I might be available on Monday 5-2-11, for private training. On Friday, 4-29-11, I will be visiting family in Janesville.

    2) The fee for the Utah permit is $62.50 for anyone getting the application to Utah BCI no later than close of business on May 10, 2011. After that the fee goes up to $65.00

    3) I will post the link to Utah BCI and the course material early next week. If printed out, it is 51 pages. However, Utah law does not specify that the course be provided on paper. Many instructors I know provide it on CD or have students download it from a flash drive onto their laptops at the time of the course. Utah law just requires that I insure that all students have a copy of the most current version of the course on the day of the class.

    As of today, the course material is: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/doc...TC01032011.pdf

    4) Fingerprints - Utah law does not yet require fingerprinting by a law enforcement agency (like FL does), but Utah BCI has published information to instructors that fingerprint cards rejected by FBI will result in denial of the permit and a re-billing of the permit fee. I am thus telling my students to have local law enforcement do the prints. (You do not need to tell the local LEO that the prints are for a CFP.)

    5) Assistant Instructors - Utah law is specific in not allowing me the use of "Assistant Instructors" unless they also hold a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor rating and NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol (or Law Enforcement POST instructor certification). However, I can use experienced shooters as "training aids" to help me demonstrate firearm safety.

    6) When i refer to slides, they are digital slides in Microsoft Power Point. When I refer to projector it means a projector that one might hook up to a computer. A large screen TV capable of accepting computer input would work.

    7) NRA Classroom Rules. All classroom work I do is conducted according to the NRA Rules of the Classroom. NO LIVE AMMUNITION IN THE CLASSROOM. If some of you choose to open carry in the class, it will be ONLY after myself and one other person have verified that your firearm is "clear". Semiautomatic pistols will be carried holstered and with the slide open. Revolvers will be removed from the holster and put on the desk, table, whatever we have, with the cylinder open.

    8) Wisconsin Law regarding concealed carry. Due to the fact that I cannot legally carry a concealed firearm in Wisconsin, all drills, including drills with female "training aids" (if MKEGAL is there) will be with a "blue gun" or "orange gun". Tactical draw and training in holster selection will likewise be done with an inert training aid.

    9) Applicants need to submit one passport photo with their application. Walgreen's offers this service for $8.99 and I hear that some Wal-Mart photo departments do as well.

    Carry on -
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    I believe that Utah just passed or is about to pass a law that will require non-resident holders of their CCW card to have a permit from their home state if it is offered....
    The Utah Law that goes into effect on May 10, 2011 requires that applicants from States that recognize Utah's permit also have a permit from their home State. This was enacted at the urging of Texas. It seems that in TX, you cannot get a permit if you owe the State of Texas back child support or back taxes. Texas residents were taking advantage of the Utah permit to circumvent Texas Law and because the Utah fee was cheaper.

    Wisconsin and Illinois do not have a permit system and do not recognize a Utah Permit. The new Utah law does not affect residents of WI or IL.

    Carry on -
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    ....
    Wisconsin and Illinois do not have a permit system and do not recognize a Utah Permit. The new Utah law does not affect residents of WI or IL.....
    I believe that's what I said....
    Dave
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    Regular Member Zeus's Avatar
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    I just took my Utah and Florida class a few weeks ago so anyone that has any questions feel free to ask. I think it's awesome that someone would give you guys such a deal on training that is very valuable, especially from a legal standpoint. I paid twice as much for my class and an additional $40 for the Florida class. A copy of the Utah class completion certificate is good as proof of training for your Florida CCW if you want to get it later. Florida requires a training course to get your permit which adds South Carolina, West Virginia, Kansas, and New Mexico to the states you a legal to CC in. Very good of you jpm to do this. Mine was a fun and enjoyable class.
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  17. #17
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    I'm interested but I am booked Saturday the 30th of April.

    So I'm a bit confused about the OP. Are the classes on the last Sat and Sunday of this month? If so I could do Sunday.
    ditto

  18. #18
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    another place for pictures

    If you're a AAA member, they'll do a set of 2 passport photos for free.
    (Dunno if it's once a year or how frequently you can get away with it.)
    That's how I got the photos needed for my UT & FL permits. What's odd is that on the permits, they look very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim
    ...all drills, including drills with female "training aids" (if MKEgal is there) will be with a "blue gun" or "orange gun".
    Tactical draw and training in holster selection will likewise be done with an inert training aid.
    Hey, now... I object to being called 'inert'.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-15-2011 at 11:28 AM.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    Hey, now... I object to being called 'inert'.
    I'll introduce you to my girlfriend from the Greater Niagara Falls region.

    Also I promised to cover Civilwarguy's reenactment on that Sunday so I am out. Thanks for the offer though.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 04-15-2011 at 12:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    I just took my Utah and Florida class a few weeks ago so anyone that has any questions feel free to ask. I think it's awesome that someone would give you guys such a deal on training that is very valuable, especially from a legal standpoint. I paid twice as much for my class and an additional $40 for the Florida class. A copy of the Utah class completion certificate is good as proof of training for your Florida CCW if you want to get it later. Florida requires a training course to get your permit which adds South Carolina, West Virginia, Kansas, and New Mexico to the states you a legal to CC in. Very good of you jpm to do this. Mine was a fun and enjoyable class.
    Hold up there....
    South Carolina Does Not Honor Non-Resident Permits/Licenses. You must be a resident of the state they honor for your permit to be valid in South Carolina.... http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf

    Still a good price and should be a great class.....

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    If you're a AAA member, they'll do a set of 2 passport photos for free.
    (Dunno if it's once a year or how frequently you can get away with it.)
    That's how I got the photos needed for my UT & FL permits. What's odd is that on the permits, they look very different.


    Hey, now... I object to being called 'inert'.
    If JPM is looking for "inert aides" I may be qualified after all!
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  22. #22
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb5300 View Post
    Hold up there....
    South Carolina Does Not Honor Non-Resident Permits/Licenses. You must be a resident of the state they honor for your permit to be valid in South Carolina.... http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf

    Still a good price and should be a great class.....
    South Carolina will honor a Florida Non-Resident permit IF the holder of said permit owns land in South Carolina and pays taxes on that land. Applicants must submit a statement from their South Carolina taxing authority at the time of application and any re-application. Selling the land and not paying taxes in SC invalidates the exception for non residents who own land in SC.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  23. #23
    McX
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    there's alot of banter. but what it means to me is Utah goes alot of places other got slimmys on. I guess it's like the American Express of walking gun. what's in your wallet? comes to mind. plus i plan to deprive of revenue on a different plane.

  24. #24
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    I'd be in for either day.

    So if I got this straight, $20 as a WCI member for the class fee, 62.50 in a check for the permit itself, a passport photo, a set of fingerprints (little confusion here-you say not needed, but FBI will reject poorly done prints and Utah will need a new app fee?), and a printout of the "book".

  25. #25
    McX
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    bump

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