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Thread: ***New amendment up on SB 234 ...reading now ***

  1. #1
    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    ***New amendment up on SB 234 ...reading now ***

    Florida Senate - 2011 COMMITTEE AMENDMENT
    Bill No. CS for SB 234






    Barcode 349518

    LEGISLATIVE ACTION
    Senate . House
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    The Committee on Rules (African Americann) recommended the following:

    1 Senate Amendment (with title amendment)
    2
    3 Delete everything after the enacting clause
    4 and insert:
    5
    6 Section 1. Subsection (1), paragraph (c) of subsection (5),
    7 and subsection (12) of section 790.06, Florida Statutes, are
    8 amended to read:
    9 790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.
    10 (1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is
    11 authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or
    12 concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this
    13 section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the
    14 licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or
    15 concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon
    16 or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not
    17 include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses
    18 shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from
    19 the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of
    20 such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm
    21 notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01 or may openly carry
    22 a handgun, as defined in s. 790.0655, notwithstanding s.
    23 790.053. The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer. A violation Violations of the
    28 provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal
    29 violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the
    30 court.
    31 (5) The applicant shall submit to the Department of
    32 Agriculture and Consumer Services:
    33 (c) A full set of fingerprints of the applicant
    34 administered by a law enforcement agency or the Division of
    35 Licensing of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer
    36 Services.
    37 (12)(a) A No license issued under pursuant to this section
    38 does not shall authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or
    39 carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
    40 1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    41 2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
    42 3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
    43 4. Any courthouse;
    44 5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would
    45 preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining
    46 who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
    47 6. Any polling place;
    48 7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public
    49 school district, municipality, or special district;
    50 8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
    51 9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not
    52 related to firearms;
    53 10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or
    54 administration building;
    55 11. Any career center;
    56 12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense
    57 alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which
    58 portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such
    59 purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career
    60 center;
    61 13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee
    62 is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such
    63 college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal
    64 electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes
    65 and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
    66 14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area
    67 of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from
    68 carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is
    69 encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as
    70 baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
    71 15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited
    72 by federal law.
    73 (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be
    74 prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for
    75 lawful purposes.
    76 (c) This subsection does not modify the terms or conditions
    77 of s. 790.251(7).
    78 (d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any
    79 provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second
    80 degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    81 Section 2. Section 790.28, Florida Statutes, is repealed.
    82 Section 3. Subsection (1) of section 790.065, Florida
    83 Statutes, is amended to read:
    84 790.065 Sale and delivery of firearms.
    85 (1)(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
    86 licensed dealer may not sell or deliver from her or his
    87 inventory at her or his licensed premises any firearm to another
    88 person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
    89 licensed dealer, or licensed collector, until she or he has:
    90 1.(a) Obtained a completed form from the potential buyer or
    91 transferee, which form shall have been promulgated by the
    92 Department of Law Enforcement and provided by the licensed
    93 importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, which shall
    94 include the name, date of birth, gender, race, and social
    95 security number or other identification number of such potential
    96 buyer or transferee and has inspected proper identification
    97 including an identification containing a photograph of the
    98 potential buyer or transferee.
    99 2.(b) Collected a fee from the potential buyer for
    100 processing the criminal history check of the potential buyer.
    101 The fee shall be established by the Department of Law
    102 Enforcement and may not exceed $8 per transaction. The
    103 Department of Law Enforcement may reduce, or suspend collection
    104 of, the fee to reflect payment received from the Federal
    105 Government applied to the cost of maintaining the criminal
    106 history check system established by this section as a means of
    107 facilitating or supplementing the National Instant Criminal
    108 Background Check System. The Department of Law Enforcement
    109 shall, by rule, establish procedures for the fees to be
    110 transmitted by the licensee to the Department of Law
    111 Enforcement. All such fees shall be deposited into the
    112 Department of Law Enforcement Operating Trust Fund, but shall be
    113 segregated from all other funds deposited into such trust fund
    114 and must be accounted for separately. Such segregated funds must
    115 not be used for any purpose other than the operation of the
    116 criminal history checks required by this section. The Department
    117 of Law Enforcement, each year prior to February 1, shall make a
    118 full accounting of all receipts and expenditures of such funds
    119 to the President of the Senate, the Speaker of the House of
    120 Representatives, the majority and minority leaders of each house
    121 of the Legislature, and the chairs of the appropriations
    122 committees of each house of the Legislature. In the event that
    123 the cumulative amount of funds collected exceeds the cumulative
    124 amount of expenditures by more than $2.5 million, excess funds
    125 may be used for the purpose of purchasing soft body armor for
    126 law enforcement officers.
    127 3.(c) Requested, by means of a toll-free telephone call,
    128 the Department of Law Enforcement to conduct a check of the
    129 information as reported and reflected in the Florida Crime
    130 Information Center and National Crime Information Center systems
    131 as of the date of the request.
    132 4.(d) Received a unique approval number for that inquiry
    133 from the Department of Law Enforcement, and recorded the date
    134 and such number on the consent form.
    135 (b) However, if the person purchasing, or receiving
    136 delivery of, the firearm is a holder of a valid concealed
    137 weapons or firearms license pursuant to the provisions of s.
    138 790.06 or holds an active certification from the Criminal
    139 Justice Standards and Training Commission as a 斗aw enforcement
    140 officer, a 田orrectional officer, or a 田orrectional probation
    141 officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or
    142 (9), the provisions of this subsection does do not apply.
    143 (c) This subsection does not apply to the purchase, trade,
    144 or transfer of a rifle or shotgun by a resident of this state
    145 when the resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer from a
    146 licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in
    147 another state.
    148 Section 4. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law.
    149
    150
    151 ================= T I T L E A M E N D M E N T ================
    152 And the title is amended as follows:
    153 Delete everything before the enacting clause
    154 and insert:
    155 A bill to be entitled
    156 An act relating to firearms; amending s. 790.06, F.S.;
    157 providing that a person in compliance with the terms
    158 of a concealed carry license may openly carry a
    159 handgun notwithstanding specified provisions; allowing
    160 the Division of Licensing of the Department of
    161 Agriculture and Consumer Services to take fingerprints
    162 from concealed carry license applicants; providing
    163 that a person may not openly carry a weapon or firearm
    164 or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into specified
    165 locations; providing that concealed carry licensees
    166 shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a
    167 firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes; providing
    168 that a provision limiting the scope of a license to
    169 carry a concealed weapon or firearm does not modify
    170 certain exceptions to prohibited acts with respect to
    171 a person痴 right to keep and bear arms in motor
    172 vehicles for certain purposes; repealing s. 790.28,
    173 F.S., relating to the purchase of rifles and shotguns
    174 in contiguous states; amending s. 790.065, F.S.;
    175 providing that specified provisions do not apply to
    176 certain firearms transactions by a resident of this
    177 state; providing an effective date.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to 'fix' it so that the Prohibited Places bit applies to Open and Concealed, instead of just Concealed.

    Is this something we HAVE to give in to? It wouldn't be a Bill Killer if it were, but I wouldn't want to concede it if we didn't absolutely have to.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    The strikeouts and changes didn't translate in the copy/paste. Makes it a bit hard to read. Here is the actual link.

    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/349518/HTML
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to 'fix' it so that the Prohibited Places bit applies to Open and Concealed, instead of just Concealed.

    Is this something we HAVE to give in to? It wouldn't be a Bill Killer if it were, but I wouldn't want to concede it if we didn't absolutely have to.
    Yes. This makes SB 234 identical to HB 517.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Yes. This makes SB 234 identical to HB 517.
    Which with the time left is a good* thing.


    *Not really good but better than it not making it if there is a fight between versions.
    Last edited by Kingfish; 04-14-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Yup. So we can count African Americann as a Yes, we need 2 more.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  7. #7
    Regular Member oogotbagsoo's Avatar
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    Looks like this is what we know...

    Chair: Senator John Thrasher (R) YES
    Vice Chair: Senator JD Alexander (R) YES?
    百enator Larcenia J. Bullard (D) NO
    百enator Anitere Flores (R) YES
    百enator Don Gaetz (R) YES
    百enator Andy Gardiner (R)
    百enator Dennis L. Jones, D.C. (R)
    百enator Gwen Margolis (D) NO
    百enator Joe African Americann (R) YES
    百enator Garrett Richter (R) YES
    百enator Gary Siplin (D) NO?
    百enator Christopher L. "Chris" Smith (D) NO
    百enator Stephen R. Wise (R)

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    One more...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    I doubt we'll suffer more than one more neocon-RINO in the committee, it'll probably roll 8-5.

  10. #10
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    Ah yes, this appears to be good. Lets not make a stink over this amendment

  11. #11
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Since I spend about 0% of the time in "prohibited places" I don't really care. I find it offensive and stupid, but they'll be deleted (except for courthouses and jails) in the years ahead anyway, if current trends are any prediction of future events.
    的f the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    From the most recent edition of 234 and the rules commitee bill analysis:

    90 (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be
    91 prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for
    92 lawful purposes.

    III. Effect of Proposed Changes:
    ...specifically protects a licensed person from being prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes... a person who prohibits a licensee from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes, commits a second degree misdemeanor if they do so knowingly and willfully under the provisions of the bill

    Can someone please pretty please tell me that this will make it a crime for my university to have a policy attempting to prohibit me from storing my pistol in my glovebox?

    If so, Evers will still be the patron saint of college-student-CW Licensees...
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 04-14-2011 at 06:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    The only thing that makes me sad here is that it says:
    "may openly carry a handgun"
    I was thinking it'd be cool to have one on each hip for both hands
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 04-14-2011 at 06:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Correct me if i'm wrong.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but this says only when in possession of a concealed weapon or firearm.... NOT OPENLY

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer. A violation Violations of the
    28 provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal
    29 violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the
    30 court. BUT NOT WHEN OPENLY CARRYING

    I LOVE NIT-PICKEN.............LOL
    Last edited by Rick H; 04-14-2011 at 06:49 PM.
    God Bless America.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    The only thing that makes me sad here is that it says:
    "may openly carry a handgun"
    I was thinking it'd be cool to have one on each hip for both hands
    Technically the language stated:

    "Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm"

    So you were also only allowed to carry 1 handgun concealed all this time?

  16. #16
    Regular Member oogotbagsoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but this says only when in possession of a concealed weapon or firearm.... NOT OPENLY

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer. A violation Violations of the
    28 provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal
    29 violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the
    30 court. BUT NOT WHEN OPENLY CARRYING

    I LOVE NIT-PICKEN.............LOL

    Funny you mention it... I immediately thought about the same thing when reading the amendment. technically, we dont need to carry ID/Permit when open carrying... haha (if the law passes)

  17. #17
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but this says only when in possession of a concealed weapon or firearm.... NOT OPENLY

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer. A violation Violations of the
    28 provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal
    29 violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the
    30 court. BUT NOT WHEN OPENLY CARRYING

    I LOVE NIT-PICKEN.............LOL
    Yes, you only have to show it to them if you are concealing. This was a huge topic a few weeks ago here. About what will happen if you don't show it to them. If it passes Rules tomorrow without them changing that, I think we'll be in good shape.
    的f the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I pointed that out about a month ago. It is written to comply with long-standing case law. "Florida vs JL" Or soemthing like that.

    Even if they re-wrote it for OCers to be forced to produce papers, the standing Case Law would supersede, make a big ol' mess, litigation, etc, and we'd end up back to what the bill currently is anyway. the Rules committee is largely charged with making sure things like that aren't in a bill to begin with, so it seems unlikely an amendment designed to do the opposite of the committee's purpose would be presented. Judiciary Committee as well, but we escaped that one.

    The case mentioned above already defines that carrying a gun is not RAS or PC of anything. Hence, any such demand would be illegal regardless of this bill or otherwise.

    I know I'm going to get a ticket for refusing to comply with an illegal demand. I just want to know how to fight it.... The wording also suggests that sterile carry may be possible for OC... You'll have to have the permit, but you don't have to have it on ya...
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-14-2011 at 06:57 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Well for me I'll carry mine for when the situation araises that I may need to conceal I will still be legal...............But still funny they did NOT pick up on this fact
    Last edited by Rick H; 04-14-2011 at 06:59 PM. Reason: OOPS for got the "LL"
    God Bless America.

  20. #20
    Regular Member oogotbagsoo's Avatar
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    Have you guys seen those youtube videos of people open carrying and getting harassed by LEOs ? (im sure you have)

    In most of those videos, you hear the LEO asking the individual filming "let me see your ID". The person's response to the LEO is "i don't need to give you my ID" and they DON'T provide it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYGSv8dfbU0

    Reading at the proposed law:

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    I guess the law is different in NM ?


    OK i guess you guys answered my question as I typed it out... LOL
    Last edited by oogotbagsoo; 04-14-2011 at 07:21 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogotbagsoo View Post
    Have you guys seen those youtube videos of people open carrying and getting harassed by LEOs ? (im sure you have)

    In most of those videos, you hear the LEO asking the individual filming "let me see your ID". The person's response to the LEO is "i don't need to give you my ID" and they DON'T provide it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYGSv8dfbU0

    Reading at the proposed law:

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    I guess the law is different in NM ?


    OK i guess you guys answered my question as I typed it out... LOL
    Yes this is what it says but the United States Constitution and the Florida State Constitution, Clearly states that they must have P/C or have a warrant to do such.
    God Bless America.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    Well for me I'll carry mine for when the situation araises that I may need to conceal I will still be legal...............But still funny they did NOT pick up on this fact
    I don't think anybody 'missed' it. I think it was written this way intentionally to comply with existing law.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogotbagsoo View Post
    have you guys seen those youtube videos of people open carrying and getting harassed by leos ? (im sure you have)

    in most of those videos, you hear the leo asking the individual filming "let me see your id". The person's response to the leo is "i don't need to give you my id" and they don't provide it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nygsv8dfbu0

    reading at the proposed law:

    The licensee must carry the license, together with
    24 valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in
    25 actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must
    26 display both the license and proper identification upon demand
    27 by a law enforcement officer.

    i guess the law is different in nm ?


    Ok i guess you guys answered my question as i typed it out... Lol
    concealed.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    201
    This is the kind of thing that merits testing in the courts. Given prior precedent, from the SOCUS no less, it's likely that the "on demand" clause of the law is prima facie unconstitutional. Given the small and civil penalty, however, the law may be able to stand as a strict liability infraction (like seat belts and helmets used to be under FL law, until they changed -- each in a different direction).

    Nonetheless, it merits testing in the appeals courts. Don't put the sanctity of your permit at stake, but if you happen to make the mistake of leaving your permit at home, unintentionally, and you are ticketed (and you live in Miami), I'd be more than willing to take your case up on appeal. There is so much useful law to argue (and so much support from those of you online, who are an amazing resource) that it wouldn't make sense to allow a lousy lower case holding to stand.

    Let's cross our fingers that this thing passes. Let's not intentionally tarnish the image of gun holders as law-abiding and cooperating, but a mistake is a mistake that can happen to anyone. Write your permit number on your phone or commit it to memory in case you leave the thing at home by mistake. They shouldn't give you s#!t if you are otherwise cooperative. But if they do, let's test that section of the law on appeal: 305-668-5656. I'm not a gun lawyer; I'm a criminal lawyer, so this is the kind of stuff I truly enjoy, and testing a bad clause in the law would, of course, be pro-bono (except for court costs).

    Jesus Rodriguez,
    Attorney
    Last edited by Jojo712; 04-22-2011 at 06:41 PM.

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