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Thread: Nerve racking situation for me the other day

  1. #1
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    Nerve racking situation for me the other day

    I just wanted to share this situation since it not only put me in a very uneasy situation while I was armed but afterwards ticked me off for the past day and a half as well.

    note: relevant story to title is in bold if you want to skip through.

    its a long read but with stories, that's just how I am so its up to you if you want to read through it all.

    First something that has nothing to do with the other event,

    I've been doing some mushroom hunting and I always carry when out. Last weekend I ran into a guy, and then his two friends in some river bottom land. I run into the first guy and we are talking about mushrooms in the area. He had come to the spot by boat. I had hiked about 3/4 of a mile through the bottom forests to get there so he was wondering how I got there without a boat and I was telling him that public parking wasn't far off. After talking a few minutes he finally notices I have a firearm on my hip and says, "Holy cow you got a gun!" like he was surprised or alarmed. I told him I always carry while out and he asked if anything had ever happened to me which I replied that I've had several bad incidences in my earlier days. I didn't tell him any events in my past but told him you just never know what to expect and he agreed.

    A long time ago, one of several different events happened to be with some screwball who thought me and some other teen friends of mine were trespassing and that he owned a low water bridge and he pushed our car off the road with his truck and then pulled a shotgun out and pointed it at us.

    More recently, I also was hunting with a buddy in this same mushroom spot last year when some guy came up on us and basically said we were on Soda Pop's land and we better get because Soda don't like people taking his mushrooms and then left to get Soda Pop. I knew we were close to the private land but had been following the signs and I carry google earth satellite picture maps and a compass. The guy also could see I was armed so I told my buddy we should move on out of the area before they came back. My buddy was like, "screw em, we aren't doing anything wrong and are on public land, what are they going to do"? I told him they just might come back with a couple of rifles, knowing I am armed and right or wrong, I don't want to be out deep in this forest armed with a 9mm handgun against two numbskulls with rifles who think they are right and have something in their heads to protect.

    So on to yesterday and what this particular post is about. I am out hunting mushrooms alone on Franklin Island, public lands on the Missouri River bottom. I was the only car in the gravel lot about a mile or more off the road and had to walk about a mile to the spot I was wanting to scout. By the time I get back I am hot and tired and just want to get to my truck. As I am walking through a stand a trees to my truck I can here a big dog woofing and coming towards me. I have a big stick in one hand and as the dog comes up to me, barking, snarling and growling I point the stick out. This dog was not only big like 100 pounds or so but it was seriously aggressive. It was going back and forth in front of me, head down low making a huge fuss. I tried to kneel down, hold a hand out and talk nice to it to see if it was just scared but it wouldn't stop being aggressive like that with the woofing and teeth gnashing stuff.

    I could see a truck and a man by it maybe 30 yards past my truck, which I was near but the dog wasn't letting me get close to my truck with any ease. I was having to take baby steps. The guy wasn't doing anything and he could see the way his dog was acting. I told him to call his dog and he didn't respond. I move towards my truck and yell at the guy, "Dude, I want to get to my truck, call your damn dog off", and then the guy just starts moseying over to my side of the gravel lot, not saying anything or calling his dog. I turn my body to walk around to the driver's side of the truck, keeping my eye on the dog because I just had a feeling it would go for me if I turned my back and sure enough it charged low at the back of my legs and I swung around getting the stick inbetween us and yelled at the dog. My plan was to just move cautiously and if that dog bit me, I would probably unholster my gun only then and shoot it.

    I really didn't know what the best course of action was but started thinking about what I should do in my head. The guy was almost to me and the dog. Alarms were already going off in my head about him. I didn't know if he might be armed and if I drew my firearm because of that damn dog, I didn't want to have an instant problem with this guy as well. I decided that I wasn't going to touch my gun unless that dog attacked me first. He tells me the dog is mad because of my stick and that's all he says ever about his dog.

    So the guy gets to my truck, his dog goes over and stands next to him and I am moving around to get in my door and the guy walks over and leans on the side of my truck and starts talking to me asking questions about what I am doing. Both the guy and the dog are way too close for my comfort. The guy is armed with a large sheathed knife on his belt. He's talking like he's either a nutjob or drunk or both but he actually didn't seem drunk, just very very odd and not very good with his speech. He's about 6 feet away just gibbering to me and even takes one step closer as if I can't hear him or something and he's laughing about the rain that he says is about to come and that he's going to go take all my shrooms and his laugh was maniacal and very weird. He wasn't being friendly and he had like a scowl on his face and one eye half cocked shut. He also keeps dropping his eyes from mine to my gun and back, never mentions anything about it but it obviously is constantly grabbing his attention to the point of seeming odd to me. He does this alot in a short amount of time. Now I am thinking about should he decide to jump at me and pull that knife, I probably am not going to be able to use my gun at least not immediately. I felt like he was sizing me up, and we are both decent sized people. I feel like I have myself in a bad situation at this point.

    My alarm is going off in my head. His speech, mannerisms, his dog and his lack of any action with his dog when it was aggressing at me make me feel as if the guy definitely has some screws loose. I can't explain how uncomfortable the whole situation made me feel. I told the guy that its been a long day, I really don't want to chat and am heading out. He just stands there leaning on my truck so I open the door while facing him and watching his dog and get in as the guy turns and walks away.

    As I drove away I let out a sigh of relief and told myself that's the reason I always go armed when I am out off the beaten trail. I can't tell you how many really weird nutjobs I have met out in the rural countryside here in Missouri. This guy racked my nerves. I really thought his dog was going to physically attack me and after awhile of 'phew', I then started feeling pretty ticked off at the way he acted. Then again, the guy was just flat out creepy and weird and what was alarming me could have just been flat out normal for him and whoever he is family to or spends his time with, I don't know.


    It reminded me of another nutjob from a few years ago when I had a guy cut me off on a gravel road, block the front of the truck with his, yell out his window, "Want some fish?!!! Follow me!!" I was like, "WTF?" and UTurned and went the other way.

    Anyways, with the guy and his dog, I am glad I didn't touch my gun and that it worked out but I also wonder if I just got lucky. I have thought out a dog scenario before and if its a lone dog, I had thought I would allow it to bite first before I would use a firearm. Two or more big dogs, I can't give that kind of leeway because its just too dangerous of a situation
    Last edited by MK; 04-15-2011 at 02:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post

    1. As I am walking through a stand a trees to my truck I can here a big dog woofing and coming towards me. I have a big stick in one hand and as the dog comes up to me, barking, snarling and growling I point the stick out. This dog was not only big like 100 pounds or so but it was seriously aggressive. It was going back and forth in front of me, head down low making a huge fuss.

    2. and sure enough it charged low at the back of my legs and I swung around getting the stick inbetween us and yelled at the dog.

    3. I have thought out a dog scenario before and if its a lone dog, I had thought I would allow it to bite first before I would use a firearm. Two or more big dogs, I can't give that kind of leeway because its just too dangerous of a situation
    MK....1st, please go read chapter 563 RSMo. The dog bought the farm with #1. #2, If I was there, then I would have dropped it for you and again, covered by 563...start reading it so you know what you can do and when.

    Now, don't ever let a dog bite you, ever. You have no idea what it may be infected with, so don't even play that game. I believe that you have played your last Ace (your luck is running out).

    Also, no more than one story per post after midnight...this had 3...thats way to much to read...just to find out you should have shot that dam dog

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    yeah, it wasn't really a question as to whether it is justified to shoot the dog. I just was worried that if I took that action and the guy didn't see it the way I did, that things could have gotten much worse in a big hurry. I definitely don't want to shoot someone's dog right in front of them as it could possibly lead to a huge escalation and I think the risk to my life is slim against a lone dog though I do realize I could at least be left with a serious injury so it could be pretty stupid of me to take that chance. It wasn't long after contact that I had a bad feeling that this guy might be more to worry about then the dog.

    Sorry about the long read. I went back and bolded the story in. I just got to rambling about a couple of encounters I've had when away from any kind of public grouping of people and there are probably more than I can count as far as rural Missouri goes over my lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    I definitely don't want to shoot someone's dog right in front of them as it could possibly lead to a huge escalation and I think the risk to my life is slim against a lone dog though I do realize I could at least be left with a serious injury so it could be pretty stupid of me to take that chance. It wasn't long after contact that I had a bad feeling that this guy might be more to worry about then the dog.
    Well it worked out for you. The guy did have a knife, wonder if he knows not to bring that to a gun fight? I'm sure his dead dog would have made him understand that fact quickly.

    You might want to invest in a pocket recorder, since you seem to get into it all the time.

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    Regular Member afcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    I turn my body to walk around to the driver's side of the truck, keeping my eye on the dog because I just had a feeling it would go for me if I turned my back and sure enough it charged low at the back of my legs and I swung around getting the stick inbetween us and yelled at the dog.
    Deal closer right there. The dog showed unrestrained aggression, so its over at that point. Take whatever reasonable measure you deem necessary. I may have warned the dog's owner so he had one last chance to call his dog off, but thats just me. I think you handled yourself very well indeed, and I'm glad it turned out well for you.
    Last edited by afcarry; 04-15-2011 at 11:06 AM.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    I would have put a round in the ground next to that dog and then told the owner that the dog won't hear the next one unless he gets his dog now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    I would have put a round in the ground next to that dog and then told the owner that the dog won't hear the next one unless he gets his dog now.
    Warning shots are usually an indication that the situation does not warrant the excusable/justified use of deadly force.

    If you are not legitimately in fear of death or great/serious bodily injury you should not be drawing, let alone firing, your handgun. If you legitimately believed the dog was about to attack (which you indicate you did not believe) then you should have shot to stop the threat - whether that could be accomplished by one shot or by needing to empty the magazine is something that could have been determined only once you started shooting.

    I note that you did not have the ability to audio-record the incident. You might want to remedy that.

    I also note that you did not get info about the guy and his dog once you were safe in your car - license plate number would suffice - and contact Animal Control to file a complaint. He who calls is listed as Complainant and he who is called about is listed as Suspect. Even if Animal Control does nothing about your call, it is on record that the dog has aggressive tendencies.

    Kudos for not threatening the dog owner with something along the lines of "If you don't call off your dog I'm going to ___." Threats are never good and again indicate you did not feel in iminent danger because you had time to make a threat and see what the guy would do.

    When the guy started advancing along the side of the truck you probably should have used your Command Voice and ordered him to back away. You saw a knife and he was too close to be able to defend yourself had he pulled it out and charged you. Even if intoxicated/mentally impaired a command to move away usually either gets obeyed or causes the person to stop and consider what to do next. That gives you time to increase distance or get inside your truck.

    Hope these comments help you sort through the situation.

    stay safe.

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    my only question...how do you hunt mushrooms?

    I love dogs, have 3 large ones and wouldn't hesitate to shoot one if it showed aggression towards me. I've seen what they can and are willing to do to each other!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    my only question...how do you hunt mushrooms?
    Visually or by scent - they're very quiet.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Visually or by scent - they're very quiet.
    Are the 'big game' or will a varmit gun work?
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    Are the 'big game' or will a varmit gun work?
    Ever been snipe hunting when you were a kid?

    Kind of the same thing, except instead of sittin' on a rock waiting with your bag, you gotta sneak up on them.

    Ocing helps in case any of the big ones get aggressive. It's a jungle out there....
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Visually or by scent - they're very quiet.

    You can also track down their known associates and wait for them to show up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    You can also track down their known associates and wait for them to show up.
    Ding, ding. We have a winner.

    You must have done some bail reclamation work.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    I have a big stick in one hand and as the dog comes up to me, barking, snarling and growling I point the stick out. This dog was not only big like 100 pounds or so but it was seriously aggressive. It was going back and forth in front of me, head down low making a huge fuss.
    I already shot an aggressive abandoned dog last year in my yard. I would do it again. I felt terrible but animal control could not catch it and the police barely even tried to help.

    And my neighbor's son was killed a few years ago in California by a dog, national story, you probably heard it. An unleashed aggressive dog is a serious danger and if the owner was not present or, in this case, not trying to stop the dog, I would have to shoot it and then scope out the owner, gun down but ready. I would then call 911 to report the shooting and the strange person. You are much more likely to receive consideration from the authorities if YOU make the call. Dogs are way more dangerous than people realize and an aggressive 100 pound dog would put me in fear for my life, not even adding in the weird owner with the big knife.

    Screw Fido, he is just a dog and needs to keep his distance. I love dogs... but they are JUST dogs when it's him against me.

    Better to be tried by twelve...

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Dogs can be extremely dangerous. I had the unenviable task some years back of tracking and eliminating a pack of feral dogs. I took down all but one of six with head shots. The sixth one figured out where I was and started toward me. That one took three shots to put down.

    For the record; I was using a 30-06 rifle at a range of between 100 to 150 yards for the first five and, for the last one, the last shot was a paced-off 50 yards to where he dropped.

    A 100 lb. dog, showing obvious aggression and the owner can't or won't control the animal? Sorry, but I wouldn't hesitate to draw and fire.

    One other comment: Everyone who is saying, "Be the first to call" is right on the money.

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    Regular Member Lady Glock's Avatar
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    I don't understand the mentality of people who would put their beloved pet's life in danger by ignoring them like that. I was walking my dog one time and a pitbull came running out to attack. I called out to the owners and they just shut their door. I let my dog off the leash so she could protect herself (3/4 coyote, 1/4 shepherd). She killed the pit and we walked away...I don't get it.

    You should have shot the attacking dog and prepared yourself against what the owner would do following that. Glad you made it out ok, but I agree with the other person who says you've played your last ace. Be careful out there!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Dogs can be extremely dangerous. I had the unenviable task some years back of tracking and eliminating a pack of feral dogs. I took down all but one of six with head shots. The sixth one figured out where I was and started toward me. That one took three shots to put down.

    For the record; I was using a 30-06 rifle at a range of between 100 to 150 yards for the first five and, for the last one, the last shot was a paced-off 50 yards to where he dropped.

    A 100 lb. dog, showing obvious aggression and the owner can't or won't control the animal? Sorry, but I wouldn't hesitate to draw and fire.

    One other comment: Everyone who is saying, "Be the first to call" is right on the money.
    I used an AR-15 at about 50 yards, lung shot as he was walking, then a headshot to put him out of his misery (I think he was dead but he was twitching).

    What was your MOS? Former 67N20 here...

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Why not have a non-lethal option for situations like this.

    Bird-shot shell, tazer, OC, laser light pen. To me it just seems a bit dangerous to only have your HG if you know there might be trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Why not have a non-lethal option for situations like this.

    Bird-shot shell, tazer, OC, laser light pen. To me it just seems a bit dangerous to only have your HG if you know there might be trouble.
    well if i know there be trouble, i most likely going to be wanting more then a less lethal option, and i try to stick with one weapon. people already think its odd that we OC. what do you think they will think when your carrying not just your HG, but a shotgun for the birdshot as well, especially when your just mushroom hunting.

    to me it really comes down to this. if somethign threatening my life, i more worried about my life then trying to use a less lethal force that may or may not work. if it warrants me to draw a weapon, its going to be my hand gun(unless its an intruder in my house, then it might be my ar15). plus i dont have a shot gun, or a tazer. and the laser light pen i never seen a study to see if that truely works, but i doubt it, and i plain out dont trust it to protect my life.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Why not have a non-lethal option for situations like this.

    Bird-shot shell, tazer, OC, laser light pen. To me it just seems a bit dangerous to only have your HG if you know there might be trouble.
    Use of deadly force is always a last option, but also have no desire or intent to wear a Bat Belt.

    If I know there was trouble to be found there, then I would not go there.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Why not have a non-lethal option for situations like this.

    Bird-shot shell, tazer, OC, laser light pen. To me it just seems a bit dangerous to only have your HG if you know there might be trouble.
    I carry a handgun for SELF-DEFENSE!
    IF I am expecting trouble it would be a rifle or shotgun!!!!
    Use the handgun to FIGHT your way to your rifle!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Lady Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    If your dog is really 3/4 coyote then its most likely not even legal to own. Your average dog owner does not have the skill or patience, regardless of what they think, to control a wild animal. I can imagine why you just nonchalantly walked away after your dog killed another dog, they probably would have put your dog down had they found out what it was. Did you report it? Did you take your dog to the vet? If it got blood in its mouth then it obviously could have caught a disease or illness from the other animal such as rabies.

    If someone ran at you from across the street, would you shoot them? If not then why is a dog any different? If something runs towards you it doesnt automatically make it a threat, it would certainly make me weary but you cant assume its going to attack you until its damn obvious it will.
    We don't have her anymore. She died 10 years later at the age of 13. She was a very loyal, very protective girl and we miss her terribly.

    As for knowing it was going to attack...it was charging, barking, baring it's teeth and acting very aggressive...I had no doubt it was out to hurt us. I'm not about to let it reach me and rip me apart before I take action against it!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Lady Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Why not have a non-lethal option for situations like this.

    Bird-shot shell, tazer, OC, laser light pen. To me it just seems a bit dangerous to only have your HG if you know there might be trouble.
    If an animal is aggressive enough to attack a person, It would be kinda stupid to leave it alive to attack another...the next one may not be old enough to know how to stop it

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    There are mixed emotions on this particular topic of story. Yes if the dog was showing aggression to harm without control then its not illegal to shoot it. But remember this, the owner CAN charge you with a court order and he can state a case that you were bothering the dog in a threat like manner. If all you have is "Here say" and no hard proof you be more than likely paying out the owner for the death of his dog.

    I'm not trying to say shooting them is a bad thing if necessary BUT just putting out the legal ways that can flop on you even if the situtation was dangerous. Just remember we have the right OC in a lot of places but we have to be careful on situtations due to how easy it is to change a story against the actual victim.
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

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