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Thread: OC in walmart

  1. #1
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    OC in walmart

    The back story is this: Im 20 years old and live in Lawrence county. I have been OC'ing for the the past couple of months and have been into many stores and three times to a mall with no incident. But last night (around seven) I walked into walmart carrying my full sized s&w m&p9 properly secured in a fobus paddle holster clearly visible (I even took off my jacket before i removed it out of the glove box to keep it this way). Now I have been into my walmart 20+ times already with it and no one has ever said anything about it, but yesterday a woman and her 14yr old or so son (he missed a good chance at being a girl) wouldn't take their eyes off of me and my gun as I entered the store. Well, I purchased my pepsi and dog food and left, but as I was pulling into my driveway i was fallowed in by a sheriff car (later another one pulled in, both knew me by name). He asked for my piece (I took it in before he stepped out of his cruiser), said I, being only 20, wasn't old enough to carry in kentucky and asked me not to OC anymore.

    My questions are:

    If the woman called the police and not walmart can i legally still carry into walmart (and would this be wise)? I know they don't have a sign up and most of the employees greet me by name (small town).

    And If i do continue to OC is there anything I can do to avoid this again? I have the youth handgun safety act pamphlet that says that you only need to be 18 to carry a handgun according the the feds, but in all my reading of KRS (I have read all the firearm related parts before I ever started carrying) I have never found it to mention open carry so i cant carry that around.

    Thanks for any advice. I don't feel that I NEED to carry, but I do feel that there may be a time that I do and I would wish that I had it.

  2. #2
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    1. You can still carry in Wal Mart because Wal Mart has not prohibited you from entering.
    2. From my understanding Kentucky only regulates concealed carry, and you are not affected by laws regulating minors.

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    I think since your under 21 you shouldn't be doing it. Considering you have to be 21 to purchase one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slocav View Post
    I think since your under 21 you shouldn't be doing it. Considering you have to be 21 to purchase one.
    Yes you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, but you only need to be 18 to possess a handgun. This is two totally different things.

    Read KRS 527.100 that specifically states 18 as teh age at which you may possess a handgun. Since the Kentucky Constitution guarantees your right to carry and that the state can only regulate concealed carry, the 7th ammendment and the KRS 527.100 are teh only two things you need to prove that you are legal to open carry starting at age 18...
    Last edited by Walkeraviator; 04-15-2011 at 05:02 AM.

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    carry it. if anyone tells you that you can't they are lying. including law enforcement

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    The back story is this: Im 20 years old and live in Lawrence county. I have been OC'ing for the the past couple of months and have been into many stores and three times to a mall with no incident. But last night (around seven) I walked into walmart carrying my full sized s&w m&p9 properly secured in a fobus paddle holster clearly visible (I even took off my jacket before i removed it out of the glove box to keep it this way). Now I have been into my walmart 20+ times already with it and no one has ever said anything about it, but yesterday a woman and her 14yr old or so son (he missed a good chance at being a girl) wouldn't take their eyes off of me and my gun as I entered the store. Well, I purchased my pepsi and dog food and left, but as I was pulling into my driveway i was fallowed in by a sheriff car (later another one pulled in, both knew me by name). He asked for my piece (I took it in before he stepped out of his cruiser), said I, being only 20, wasn't old enough to carry in kentucky and asked me not to OC anymore.

    My questions are:

    If the woman called the police and not walmart can i legally still carry into walmart (and would this be wise)? I know they don't have a sign up and most of the employees greet me by name (small town).

    And If i do continue to OC is there anything I can do to avoid this again? I have the youth handgun safety act pamphlet that says that you only need to be 18 to carry a handgun according the the feds, but in all my reading of KRS (I have read all the firearm related parts before I ever started carrying) I have never found it to mention open carry so i cant carry that around.

    Thanks for any advice. I don't feel that I NEED to carry, but I do feel that there may be a time that I do and I would wish that I had it.
    Did you get charged with anything? Did they keep your firearm, or give it back?

  7. #7
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    You need to contact the sheriff's dept. about this and let them know what happened and that YOU ARE LEGAL to carry if you see fit. The key in dealing with ANYONE in reference to firearms is knowledge, a level-head, and being a bit jovial as well. As the old folks used to say, "You get more flies with honey....".

    Make them aware of KRS 527.100. In fact, print it out for them and give them the copy. As 527.100(1) states, you're only guilty IF you're under 18 years of age. Being that you're 20, you're legal of course but being that you're 20, they might tend to "blow you off" when you bring this to their attention.

    IF you decide to make contact with them and if you decide to approach the sheriff in person, DO NOT carry into the sheriff's dept.! It is currently illegal to carry there! (KRS 237.110)

    As for Wal Mart, they follow the laws of the states in which they operate. This means that in Kentucky, they allow OC in their stores.

    The keyword here is RESPECT when you talk to the sheriff.


    Walkeraviator: Thanks, I knew I'd read the age requirement somewhere, just wasn't sure where. *LOL*
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  8. #8
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I was not charged with anything and I didn't even allow him to my gun. And I only brought up the Youth handgun safety act because that is the only place I have ever seen an age limit.

    I am getting really tired of the sheriff dept. Every time I shoot at my house they come by and say that it is illegal to shoot in city limits (they know I'm not in city thats why the city cops don't respond unless they have nothing better to do) and every time I tell them I don't live in the city they want to see what I'm shooting at.

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    You have done nothing against the law. If they stop you again, they need to say EXACTLY why they are stopping you and they need to CITE the law they are responding to. The burden of proof is on them, you don't have to do the leg work for them--though I suppose you can tell them to go look up KRS 527.100 and do their home work.


    Also, feel free to OC in the Sheriff's office! Neuro is wrong here--it is COMPLETELY legal to OC in the sheriff's office (I have done so myself). It MAY be illegal to CC in there.

  10. #10
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I studied the sections of KRS that had anything to do with firearms for two months before I ever started carrying. And I know that Lawrence county doesn't have any ordinances against firing guns outside of city limits. But like I said: I am no english major, I am a mechanic. I want the law the way it is commonly interpreted, not how I interpret it, and there is always the chance that there is something I have missed (court cases, law changes, etc.) that this great site knows about.

    But the sheriff himself I know as a man who will (probably) sign my papers for a CCL and the ATF form to purchase a suppressor come Dec. So I figure i shouldn't piss him off while I'm this close.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    You need to contact the sheriff's dept. about this and let them know what happened and that YOU ARE LEGAL to carry if you see fit. The key in dealing with ANYONE in reference to firearms is knowledge, a level-head, and being a bit jovial as well. As the old folks used to say, "You get more flies with honey....".

    Make them aware of KRS 527.100. In fact, print it out for them and give them the copy. As 527.100(1) states, you're only guilty IF you're under 18 years of age. Being that you're 20, you're legal of course but being that you're 20, they might tend to "blow you off" when you bring this to their attention.

    IF you decide to make contact with them and if you decide to approach the sheriff in person, DO NOT carry into the sheriff's dept.! It is currently illegal to carry there! (KRS 237.110)

    As for Wal Mart, they follow the laws of the states in which they operate. This means that in Kentucky, they allow OC in their stores.

    The keyword here is RESPECT when you talk to the sheriff.


    Walkeraviator: Thanks, I knew I'd read the age requirement somewhere, just wasn't sure where. *LOL*
    It is not illegal to OPENLY CARRY a firearm into a sheriffs office. It is illegal to carry CONCEALED into a sheriffs office. Please either quote the statute or at least read the damn law so this does not happen again. Not trying to be an ass here but the whole point of this forum is EDUCATION not mis-information.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

  12. #12
    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    ******* off the sheriff

    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I studied the sections of KRS that had anything to do with firearms for two months before I ever started carrying. And I know that Lawrence county doesn't have any ordinances against firing guns outside of city limits. But like I said: I am no english major, I am a mechanic. I want the law the way it is commonly interpreted, not how I interpret it, and there is always the chance that there is something I have missed (court cases, law changes, etc.) that this great site knows about.

    But the sheriff himself I know as a man who will (probably) sign my papers for a CCL and the ATF form to purchase a suppressor come Dec. So I figure i shouldn't piss him off while I'm this close.
    Doesn't matter if you piss off the sheriff or not. Kentucky is a "shall issue" state and as long as you are not a prohibited person he has no choice but to grant you your ccdw. Do not let these thugs trample your RIGHT to self-protection. I personally, refuse to beg permission from the gov;t to carry but to each his own.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

  13. #13
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    However, he is not required by law to sign off on ATF forms that is left to the sheriff's discretion.

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    you only have to be 18 to carry. And we dont need people telling you not to exercise your rights just because your not old enough to buy a handgun, carry on. You need to be well informed of everything, because if u was u could have shut the deputy up! They can not stop you, detain you, take your weapon, or ask you not to open carry. They enforce the law, not give rulings on it, I would study up and call the sheriff dept. You can openly carry in the department, and I would just to make a point, but make sure you know every possible thing to throw at em, because they will try to intimidate them.

  15. #15
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Also, feel free to OC in the Sheriff's office! Neuro is wrong here--it is COMPLETELY legal to OC in the sheriff's office (I have done so myself). It MAY be illegal to CC in there.
    I had to go back and look it up, you're correct Langzaiguy. All it refers to is CC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocav View Post
    I think since your under 21 you shouldn't be doing it. Considering you have to be 21 to purchase one.
    That only applies when purchasing from an FFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    However, he is not required by law to sign off on ATF forms that is left to the sheriff's discretion.
    In that case, he can form a trust.

  17. #17
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    UPDATE: I went into my walmart for the 1st time after the sheriffs came by my house and I was told to not bring my gun back into their walmart (Louisa walmart i think its 4461) until I get my CCP.

    Edit: It was an asst manager, I don't know if she has the right to do that. The manager wasn't in.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-16-2011 at 02:51 PM.

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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    UPDATE: I went into my walmart for the 1st time after the sheriffs came by my house and I was told to not bring my gun back into their walmart (Louisa walmart i think its 4461) until I get my CCP.

    Edit: It was an asst manager, I don't know if she has the right to do that. The manager wasn't in.
    I use to work for wally world. It is corporate policy to follow state laws but coporate also leaves it up to the store managers discretion also.

    I would calmly leave and then contact both the manager and then corporate if you need too and voice your concerns. The manager may also not be aware of the corporate or state laws. I know the manager where I was working at the time had no clue until someone told em.

    P.S. A manager, asst. manager, or customer service manager has the right to ask you to leave any time.
    Last edited by KYKevin; 04-16-2011 at 04:18 PM.

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    Search the site, There are several letters from WalMart corporate posted that explains that WalMart follows state laws.

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    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...walmart+letter

    Thank you for your message.

    Dear Jacob,

    In regards to your inquiry:

    * There is no policy against customers carrying their handgun in our stores as long as he/she is legally permitted by their state to carry the handgun.

    * As a private property owner, Walmart has the authority to ask customers to remove their handgun or leave the store on a case-by-case basis if customers or Walmart associates express concerns about the handgun.

    Thank you,

    Wal-Mart Customer Care

  21. #21
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    P.S. A manager, asst. manager, or customer service manager has the right to ask you to leave any time.
    Sorry, I wasn't too clear in what i was saying. I meant I don't know if she made the store policy just then and there (she didn't know what it was so she told me to never bring it back open carrying). Because if that was the case it was without her boss's permission, and that she has no right.

    I figured any employee would have the right to tell me I couldn't have it if that was the policy (most managers would stand behind something like that).

    Also do they think that if someone wanted to shoot up the place they would care if they were lawfully carrying or not? That is what bothers me.

  22. #22
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    Search the site, There are several letters from WalMart corporate posted that explains that WalMart follows state laws.
    Additionally, I have an audio of their (WalMart) market office stating as such.
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