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Thread: bil 234 passes Rules Committee

  1. #1
    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    bill 234 passes Rules Committee

    hell yeah

    CS/CS by- Rules; YEAS 8 NAYS 4
    Last edited by deserteagle50; 04-15-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    What was this about a 'secret' amendment by the Retail Federation? I'm not sure I follow that notion.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    that secret amendment better not have anything to do with weight-of-law...

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I always worry about that which I am told not to worry about.... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....

    I'd rather be paranoid and not need it, than to need it and not have it....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  5. #5
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    so whats next?

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    The Sunshine State

    This is a truly beautiful thing that we're catching up with the rest of the country's freedoms after a quarter century hiatus.

  7. #7
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Im surprised to see how many people really want this so badly...
    It's infuriating that a bunch of ninnying politicians presume to violate our rights. You get more freedom by denying government a complete monopoly on the power of the purse and the power of the sword. It's useless fighting the Federal Reserve or the teacher's union. Carrying a gun openly is a service to others and their freedom. Being forced to carry in the most useless and uncomfortable manner possible is unacceptable.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    I spoke to a local cop today and asked him what he thought about the new open carry bill's... He said...what??!!...in florida? really? I didnt know anything about that...

    people there are a lot of locals that still have no idea about these bills... be prepared for confrontations
    Yup, it's a good idea to printout the new law and carry it around for a while till everyone is up to speed.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This is why I think Florida Carry should, and probably is working on making, a press release directed at the LEOs.

    Either by deliberately engineered training and policies, or the lie of omission, CLEOs are putting bad info/no info in the ears and heads of the LEOs they control. I think any responsible citizen owes it to their fellow citizens to inform them of the risks and exposure to litigation they are being pushed into by their boss' vendettas and contempt for the law and the people.

    It's easy to risk somebody else's career while you sit behind your desk ranting neocon screed... I think they deserve and advocate, an it should be us. What a giant monkey wrench in these CLEO's games that would be....

    These CLEOs have declared war on us, not the other way around. We may have to meet it, but let us be very clear that we are not out to get anyone. We're not the ones with Uniforms, Badges, and the power to abuse power; how could we possibly be the predators here?
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-15-2011 at 01:58 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    What's next for the bill? is it going to happen today ?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  11. #11
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    I wouldnt worry to much about the "secret amendment".
    More insider info?

  12. #12
    Regular Member maps761's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Now let me ask you... and believe me when I say Im not against or better said, preventing this from happening, but I must ask you why do and everyone else wants to openly carry a gun for... would'nt you preffer the elimante of surprise on the enemy? rather then letting know you have a weapon?

    In my opinion I believe there is the mental aspect of strapping the gun to your hip and feeling the sense of power...Put you see thats not enough, you have to let the world know... If thats the case then maybe you shouldn't have a gun... Im not saying that towards just you, im speaking just in general... There are lots of people that think that they have to have a gun and not for self defense but to show and scare people.
    I hope you are wearing flame proof underwear.
    If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Im surprised to see how many people really want this so badly...
    You didn't think there were that many smart people around? An understandable conclusion, especially in your line of work. ;-)

    I used to do tech support. I was amazed at how stupid people were. Every day, a new and amazing form of dumb would assault my mind. I wondered how the world managed to hold together. Smart people never called me, they didn't need to. Cops don't get sent to non-events... Same premise. It can skew one's perspective.

    Well, they aren't supposed to be sent to non-events... Clearly, some of these CLEOs intend to waste tons of time and money trying to impose their will through intimidation tactics. They've thrown down the gauntlet already, the Bill hasn't passed yet and they're already preparing for war on us.

    This environment hasn't been encountered before. If/When OC is signed, we're going to have to be very careful to video document. Never go alone. We already know one CLEO is dedicating 4 cops to an OCer who is breaking no laws. We may have to consider grouping up at first, lets all events be lied about and they 'fix it in the report.'
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    More insider info?
    Giving signs weight of law would be a huge change, I just can't see it. More worried about the votes on the senate floor now.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Now let me ask you... and believe me when I say Im not against or better said, preventing this from happening, but I must ask you why do and everyone else wants to openly carry a gun for... would'nt you preffer the elimante of surprise on the enemy? rather then letting know you have a weapon?

    In my opinion I believe there is the mental aspect of strapping the gun to your hip and feeling the sense of power...Put you see thats not enough, you have to let the world know... If thats the case then maybe you shouldn't have a gun... Im not saying that towards just you, im speaking just in general... There are lots of people that think that they have to have a gun and not for self defense but to show and scare people.
    You've got it entirely backwards and up-side down.

    People get a 'feeling' of power and safety having that gun next to their skin. but come that time when they need it, it really isn't useful. BGs aren't stupid most of the time. They don't let you reach for anything. That concealed gun stays concealed and useless.

    Open Carrying is a very vulnerable feeling, socially. We know we're going to get molested by Liberals for coming out of the closet. And we do it anyway. We know that Cops who do not respect us or the law could really ruin our lives over it. And we do it anyway. We do it because it's the right thing to do, no matter how we may be punished for it.

    "The element of surprise" I've debunked this backwards lie way, way too many times. I used to fall for it myself. Please explain how an ambush is a defensive concept? Please do. Please explain how waiting until you're attacked to reveal your weapon is better than just letting it be seen and preventing that attack from even getting started? This isn't an opinion or a theory. Concealers prove it almost every day. Get attacked -> Draw gun -> bad guy chickens out. Why not nip it in the bud and stop that from even happening? Oh, that's right, you want the ego trip of "Well, I whipped out my gun and he changed his mind right quick, heh heh heh! What a badass I am!"

    The only 'surprise' a CCer gets is the discovery of how useless that concealed gun is when s/he cant get to it. Feeling safe is not the same as being safe.

    I find that actually examining the issue reveals it is the Concealers who have the ego trip. The Cops have the ego trip; they don't want the public to start seeing that carrying a gun is not complicated or difficult, they want to be seen as supermen and we would kill that dream by proving otherwise. "Look at us in out fancy uniforms! We're like so totally trained and stuff!" Driving a car is far more complicated and orders of magnitude more dangerous. Yes, it should be taken seriously. But it's far easier and less dangerous to carry a gun openly then it is to drive a car.

    Logically, functionally, and factually, Open Carry is the opposite of all of that.

    I hope this isn't considered a 'flame.' I'm really trying to believe that not all cops are evil. Work with me a little...
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-15-2011 at 02:21 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  16. #16
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Now let me ask you... and believe me when I say Im not against or better said, preventing this from happening, but I must ask you why do and everyone else wants to openly carry a gun for... would'nt you preffer the elimante of surprise on the enemy? rather then letting know you have a weapon?

    In my opinion I believe there is the mental aspect of strapping the gun to your hip and feeling the sense of power...Put you see thats not enough, you have to let the world know... If thats the case then maybe you shouldn't have a gun... Im not saying that towards just you, im speaking just in general... There are lots of people that think that they have to have a gun and not for self defense but to show and scare people.
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

    To the essay I'd add the fact that open carry is indeed passive resistance to tyranny. Much more valuable than voting. It reminds people, or should remind, who the real sovereigns are. It's individual people.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  17. #17
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    This is why I think Florida Carry should, and probably is working on making, a press release directed at the LEOs.
    We are absolutely working on 'training materials' to be distributed to every LE agency in the state, including FDLE.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    We are absolutely working on 'training materials' to be distributed to every LE agency in the state, including FDLE.
    I must say, it's nice to be able to relax and have a little faith in others. This whole ordeal, fruitful or otherwise, is the only positive thing I have to say about the human race. I actually trust you guys. I haven't been able to say that about a human being, well, ever.

    I don't get along with Stogie, Jeep, or a few others. Probably because my reaction to them was still based on "don't trust anybody, ever." I didn't want to see yet another dream seized and destroyed by 'humans who aren't me.'

    But not only can they apparently be trusted with it, they are certainly better people for the job than I.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Now let me ask you... and believe me when I say Im not against or better said, preventing this from happening, but I must ask you why do and everyone else wants to openly carry a gun for... would'nt you preffer the elimante of surprise on the enemy? rather then letting know you have a weapon?

    In my opinion I believe there is the mental aspect of strapping the gun to your hip and feeling the sense of power...Put you see thats not enough, you have to let the world know... If thats the case then maybe you shouldn't have a gun... Im not saying that towards just you, im speaking just in general... There are lots of people that think that they have to have a gun and not for self defense but to show and scare people.
    I won't flame or even debate beyond this: the element of surprise, as a defensive tactic, is only valuable if you know exactly where, when, and how your opponent will hit you. And any armed citizen with a sense of self-preservation, CC or OC, will avoid being in a place and time that they know they'll be attacked.
    This is my important statement/response: I want OC because I hate being terrified of the law. Even with IWB holsters and super-long shirts it's too easy for me to print or flash enough to get in trouble. Even if noone has ever been prosecuted, I'm not willing to be detained/arrested for exposure, and this keeps me from carrying half the time I could legally, just because I'm still more afraid of the law than the criminals. I hate having to conceal my gun even if I'm hiking/kayaking, etc. I hate feeling like a low-life criminal scum who's sneaking around to hide that "sinister" weapon. I hate having to were a little gun that can conceal easily, but be less effective as a defensive weapon. I hate having to wear any gun in a piece of crap IWB $10 holster that hangs on your belt like a phone and lets the gun ride up to print or fall out, because you can't afford to have retention devices, since your draw speed/hindrance is so more worse. I hate having my gun buried under my shirts and stuck to my side. I hate having my gun stuck under my shirt, under my seatbelt, completely unavailable when I'm driving.
    I'd rather have the bal** to just let people know it's there, know where it is, and be comfortable, keep my gun in a real, secure, and more comfortable holster. I'd rather not worry about it riding or falling out, I'd rather be able to get to it if I'm driving. I'd rather be able to see each others' guns and 'shoot the breeze' about shooting with fellow carriers (including police). I'd rather not have to wear clothes I'd never choose otherwise, or wear extra layers to cover something I shouldn't have to, in the upcoming brutal Florida Summer.
    Ok, everyone, how's that for 'good' (as in morally, socially, etc) reasons to want to OC?
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 04-15-2011 at 02:40 PM.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    As far as working with you I can do my best, but we are all law abiding gun owners at least I am.. So I believe we all must be open minded about certain things. I do however believe in certain situations concealed carry very tactical due to the elimante of surprise, and making the enemy believe he has the upper hand... I do however understand the advantages of open carry and how it SOMETIMES!! can prevent a would be crime... I also am a fan of the open carry provision because most criminals would never openly carry a gun because they rather avoid the attention...at least most of them anyways...

    I understand your feelings bro..
    Well over a year ago I posted my personal experiences of defensive gun use. 4 times I had to draw. One time I had to point. 0 times did I fire. None of it made my dick seem bigger. One of these scenarios involved my son being snatched and used as a human shield in a crowded mall. By the time I could draw, Situational awareness, etc... It was an indefensible scenario. I never should have been there surrounded by all the wage cattle obeying their TVs. I didn't take the shot, he gave up. In the fancy, expensive part of town where these things don't happen.... No report was filed. Buried it to keep the property values high, etc.

    "Defensive display" is the concept some promote. Open Carry is the passive, not-in-hand version of this. If the same thing can be accomplished by NOT having the gun in your hand, then all that much better.

    I don't know anybody who can get an ego trip off of OCing after they've done it a few times. It's a self-solving problem. It makes you feel naked, nothing to hide.

    This is why I OC, and this is why I'd prefer it be an AK-pistol. I could have taken that shot with confidence with a longer sight radius and 2 or 3 points of balance instead of 1. And I also think an AK pistol kind suggest 'bad idea' where my concealed p89 didn't say anything at all. It was too late.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-15-2011 at 02:49 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    The new amendment is in

    1 Senate Amendment to Amendment (349518)
    2
    3 Delete line 22
    4 and insert:
    5 a handgun as defined in s. 790.0655, on any public property and,
    6 when permissible, on private property notwithstanding s.
    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/974748/HTML
    God Bless America.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    whats next for the bill!? where does it go from here? when does it happen?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 04-15-2011 at 02:54 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  23. #23
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    my 92fs
    Same here. Good man, say no to plastic

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 790.0655 excerpt
    “Handgun” means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver.
    "such as" cites an example, not a requirement. "capable of" I can fire my AK-pistol from one hand. I don't, but I can... I can fire my 10" Contender 45-70 Gov't with one hand, too... but it's not nice... at all.

    It'll be a while, I'm working on version 3 of a proper retention holster for it... For now it's the ol' 1911.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-15-2011 at 03:01 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    whats next for the bill!? where does it go from here? when does it happen?
    Senate Floor! We don't have a 'when' yet.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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