Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Justification defensive display of a firearm

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    18

    Justification defensive display of a firearm

    What is Florida laws on Justification defensive display of a firearm, is it or should it be like Arizona's
    Your input please, thanks

    13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

    A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    B. This section does not apply to a person who:

    1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

    2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

    C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

    D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

    1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

    2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    238
    To the best of my knowledge, Florida doesn't have any laws regarding it.

    My understanding of the law is anything not in it...is by default...."permitted".

    The reason we can't OC is because the law STATES we can't...not because it doesn't.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by I hate MD View Post
    What is Florida laws on Justification defensive display of a firearm, is it or should it be like Arizona's
    Your input please, thanks

    13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

    A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    B. This section does not apply to a person who:

    1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

    2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

    C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

    D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

    1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

    2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

    3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.
    FL statutes have nothing like that: Displaying a firearm, if deadly force in self defense is not justified, may be cosidered "rude, angry, or threatening display of a deadly weapon." If deadly force is justified, the law makes no difference between drawing a gun, pointing it at your attacker w/ or w/o verbal warning and/or warning shot, and emptying the magazine into him. Generally the theory in FL is - if there's justification to make any use of your gun, fire until the threat is either fleeing, surrendering, or bleeding out on the ground. Is this ideal? Absolutely not, the laws should be changed, but your legal liability is prettymuch the same from the point the gun is in your hand 'til the magazine is empty and your barrel is hot...

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Another important way to look at this, if Im not mistaken-By you brandishing that sidearm, the law can spin in the other guy's favor, in that he can take your action to mean HE is under threat to his life.
    Thus, making YOU the bad guy.

    Keep the pistol holstered, unless/until you have to make use of it. Waving it around hoping to scare or intimidate a potential/percieved threat....just invites way to many versions of Murphy to pay you a visit.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1
    While everyone's input here may be helpful, ultimately what matters is what is written into law.

    790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 4532, 1897; GS 3272; RGS 5105; CGL 7207; s. 5, ch. 69-306; s. 743, ch. 71-136; s. 2, ch. 76-165; s. 174, ch. 91-224.
    http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.10

    The statute doesn't specifically state what 'necessary self defense' is, (essentially what the Arizona statute is doing - defining it) which would lead me to believe that it would ultimately only apply to being able to use it. Which is chapter 776 of the statutes, JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE. Hopefully you're familiar with it if you're carrying.

    My suggestion would be not to touch it, imply you have it, let the imprint show, etc, in any sense, unless you have legal justification in pulling the trigger.
    Last edited by rabeatz; 04-18-2011 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Duemmling View Post
    While everyone's input here may be helpful, ultimately what matters is what is written into law.


    http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.10

    The statute doesn't specifically state what 'necessary self defense' is, (essentially what the Arizona statute is doing - defining it) which would lead me to believe that it would ultimately only apply to being able to use it. Which is chapter 776 of the statutes, JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE. Hopefully you're familiar with it if you're carrying.

    My suggestion would be not to touch it, imply you have it, let the imprint show, etc, in any sense, unless you have legal justification in pulling the trigger.
    You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

    In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

    In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.
    Actually, pointing a gun at someone, even if it's unloaded, is "Deadly force," whether or not you shoot it it's still deadly force.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    Actually, pointing a gun at someone, even if it's unloaded, is "Deadly force," whether or not you shoot it it's still deadly force.
    You are incorrect. It may be, depending on the circumstances - which ultimately will be decided by a finder of fact (Judge in a Bench Trial, or a Jury)

    Only the discharge of a firearm has been held to be deadly force as a matter of law.
    Williams v. State, 727 So. 2d 1062 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 4th Dist. 1999

    Also, as to an unloaded weapon...
    Deadly force occurs where the natural, probable and foreseeable consequences of the defendant's acts are death.
    An unloaded firearm does not meet this definition.

    However, pointing an unloaded firearm as someone may give that person fear of death or great bodily injury, even if the act itself is not, by law, Deadly Force.
    Last edited by brboyer; 04-19-2011 at 07:36 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member SGB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida, USA
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

    In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.
    brboyer has hit it on the head. This is why it's important to understand the proper use of escalation of force and to get training in how to put it into practice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •