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Thread: Carrying my license

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Post Carrying my license

    I understand tHat WHEN licensed open carry becomes permissible by law, we'll have to have our ccw with us in case an officer demands it. However, what about concealed? Do I still need to have it with me? Right now, I hardly ever carry it with me, cuz I never carry a wallet unless I'm going to buy something.


    Just wondering.

    Thanks guys
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    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    I understand tHat WHEN licensed open carry becomes permissible by law, we'll have to have our ccw with us in case an officer demands it. However, what about concealed? Do I still need to have it with me? Right now, I hardly ever carry it with me, cuz I never carry a wallet unless I'm going to buy something.


    Just wondering.

    Thanks guys
    yes you need to carry your permit at all times if your carrying!

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    As written, it seems that the requirements are for when concealed. I'm not sure you have to when open. Read the bill again. The law would be illegal itself it if granted ID on Demand powers for Open Carry, as Case Law has already defined that Carrying a Gun is not RAS or PC of anything. As written, one might even argue that sterile carry is possible. The 4th Amendment would trump any State Law that defies it. Also, Florida Courts have already decided that matter....

    It clearly states that you must have the ID and present it on demand when concealed. Doesn't say that about open, and for good reason of long settled law. As such, open may require you to have the permit, but not actually have it on you.

    Concealed definitely requires you to have both your CWFL AND another form of valid photo ID. And you must present both upon demand. Thats the way it is now, and the way it will continue to be if/when this bill is signed.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-16-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    As written, it seems that the requirements are for when concealed. I'm not sure you have to when open. Read the bill again. The law would be illegal itself it if granted ID on Demand powers for Open Carry, as Case Law has already defined that Carrying a Gun is not RAS or PC of anything. As written, one might even argue that sterile carry is possible. The 4th Amendment would trump any State Law that defies it. Also, Florida Courts have already decided that matter....

    It clearly states that you must have the ID and present it on demand when concealed. Doesn't say that about open, and for good reason of long settled law. As such, open may require you to have the permit, but not actually have it on you.

    Concealed definitely requires you to have both your CWFL AND another form of valid photo ID. And you must present both upon demand. Thats the way it is now, and the way it will continue to be if/when this bill is signed.


    Ok- but as of right now, I'm not required to tell LE that I am carrying, so how would they know?? And why would there be a request of my ID? if I get pulled over, I always notify, but that's just me. If I didn't tell him, he wouldn't know...so I'm confused as to why I need to carry it with me if I'm not required to notify, and case law states that simply having a gun is not suspicion of a crime to be committed..?
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    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    if you get pulled over and they run your D/L it's going to come up that you have a CCW,then they are going to ask if your carrying.just a good idea to have your permint at all times if your carrying a gun if not you can go to jail & then lose your rights!!!

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    Ok- but as of right now, I'm not required to tell LE that I am carrying, so how would they know?? And why would there be a request of my ID? if I get pulled over, I always notify, but that's just me. If I didn't tell him, he wouldn't know...so I'm confused as to why I need to carry it with me if I'm not required to notify, and case law states that simply having a gun is not suspicion of a crime to be committed..?
    The law as of right now clearly states that you must carry when in possession of said weapon/firearm.
    Now into the why would:
    If for some reason you where to be checked because of your firearm being seen and the LEO called, injured and incapacitated, if asked during a traffic stop, accused of a crime that would require said license to be shown, ect.
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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deserteagle50 View Post
    if you get pulled over and they run your D/L it's going to come up that you have a CCW,then they are going to ask if your carrying.just a good idea to have your permint at all times if your carrying a gun if not you can go to jail & then lose your rights!!!

    Actually- I've had an instance where I didn't notify, and had my DL run, and they didn't ask me about a gun..
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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    The law as of right now clearly states that you must carry when in possession of said weapon/firearm.
    Now into the why would:
    If for some reason you where to be checked because of your firearm being seen and the LEO called, injured and incapacitated, if asked during a traffic stop, accused of a crime that would require said license to be shown, ect.

    What was the case in south Florida where someone called the police about someone having a gun, and they came and frisked him and found a gun, but then it was ruled he couldn't be frisked just based on him having a gun?
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  9. #9
    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    that's cool but is it worth taking that chance & lose your carrying privileges??

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    What was the case in south Florida where someone called the police about someone having a gun, and they came and frisked him and found a gun, but then it was ruled he couldn't be frisked just based on him having a gun?
    I am just making a point that there are circumstances that can be a requirement to show a LEO and therefore would result in a bad outcome..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    What was the case in south Florida where someone called the police about someone having a gun, and they came and frisked him and found a gun, but then it was ruled he couldn't be frisked just based on him having a gun?

    Florida v. JL

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    Ok- but as of right now, I'm not required to tell LE that I am carrying, so how would they know?? And why would there be a request of my ID? if I get pulled over, I always notify, but that's just me. If I didn't tell him, he wouldn't know...so I'm confused as to why I need to carry it with me if I'm not required to notify, and case law states that simply having a gun is not suspicion of a crime to be committed..?
    It seems unenforcible, you're right. I'm just telling you what the law says.

    You're right, they wouldn't know. Unless they pull you up via publicly displayed data, such as your license plate, or they overhear your name, etc...

    If they find that out and have a chip on their shoulder, they're going to ask.

    I really don't see the point of your position. You essentially gave up your rights and freedoms when you paid for the permit... Closing up the barn after the horse gets out doesn't make a lot of sense.

    As of right now, you better have the CWFL and another form of valid Photo ID on you when you're Carrying if you want to be legal. If you don't want to be legal, well... That risk is yours to take. You're right, who's gonna know? It's concealed! There are ways they could find out.

    Concealing a gun is not merely having it. That is Carrying it AND Concealing it. Florida vs JL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._J.L.), read it. But, yeah, it's concealed... Which, if you don't have your Permit and 2nd Photo ID, is a crime. Under 'normal' circumstances, who would know, it's concealed, duh... But there are ways they could find out and you'd be boned.

    Can you afford to fight through every court up to the Supremes?
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-16-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    It seems unenforcible, you're right. I'm just telling you what the law says.

    You're right, they wouldn't know. Unless they pull you up via publicly displayed data, such as your license plate, or they overhear your name, etc...

    If they find that out and have a chip on their shoulder, they're going to ask.

    I really don't see the point of your position. You essentially gave up your rights and freedoms when you paid for the permit... Closing up the barn after the horse gets out doesn't make a lot of sense.

    As of right now, you better have the CWFL and another form of valid Photo ID on you when you're Carrying if you want to be legal. If you don't want to be legal, well... That risk is yours to take. You're right, who's gonna know? It's concealed! There are ways they could find out.
    Well, in my circumstance they always know that I am carrying because I carry a Smith & Wesson 40 Cal. Model 411 with one of those Walker Texas Ranger type holsters and it show very well and I make sure that it does. I have never been asked to see my permission slip as of yet but I am never going to take that chance, now I have been asked by many people including LEO if that was a gun and my reply is always yep sure is and it is loaded with a hydra-shok in the chamber too.

    Also anywhere I go I make it a point to tell the Store, Company, People that I am carrying and is this permissible on their property. and I have never been told no.
    Last edited by Rick H; 04-16-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    What was the case in south Florida where someone called the police about someone having a gun, and they came and frisked him and found a gun, but then it was ruled he couldn't be frisked just based on him having a gun?
    That's not the reasoning they used. The search was illegal because the officers didn't observe anything themselves, and the anonymous tip was not substantially corroborated.

    Essentially, they fished for corroborating evidence and found it; they didn't have it in advance. Thus, no RAS for the Terry Stop, fruit of the poisoned tree, etc...

    The ability to identify the person that was called about does not equate to the ability to identify that person committing a crime of any sort. The need both. People could call up and say anything the wanted just to use the police as a harassment tool. And bekleive you me, this is what Liberals love trying to do. When they get a complicit LEO that is willing to do their bidding, your life becomes hell.

    Realize that this fellow was still arrested and charged. While, legally, the LEOs 'need' certain conditions to be met, that doesn't mean they obey those legal limits. Even if you're right, you can still go to jail and spend your life trying to defend yourself from their illegal actions.

    however, since this is now a matter of settled law, there would be no Qualified Immunity; you could sue the crap out of them for it under USC 42/1983.
    Last edited by ixtow; 04-16-2011 at 01:55 PM.
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    To me it seems silly to have to carry your permit when it's simple to check with the county clerk and look it up, or if driving, see it on your DL.

    It's akin to making grannies take off their shoes at the airport check points.

    They talk about rising crime rate and what are officers out there doing - stopping people with crooked license plates or stopping OC-ers walking their dogs. Who mandates this kind of 'work', I wonder?

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    Regular Member titanortiz's Avatar
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    I been stop a few times and they check my DL and they never ask if i was carring and i carrie all the time . and i dint" tell them that i was carrying
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    If and when you are carrying you must provide your CWL on demand there are no excuses to this authority!! You must and you will if your a law abiding citizen...

    If you are pulled over and my fellow officer runs your DL it will pop up in the data base that you are a CWL carrier and will be asked if there is a weapon in the car...If there is a weapon in the car that may just very well compound your problems, because you didn't notify the officer that you had a weapon on you... If this happens the officer will go about doing his busniess with you completely different..

    If your not carrying you CWL you will be fined.

    Do yourself a favor and be courteous to the officer or you might not a very goodnight.
    first of all im always courteous with them .but if they dont ask do i have to tell them? is thi requered by law?
    Last edited by titanortiz; 04-16-2011 at 03:09 PM. Reason: i ways carrie my cwl.
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    First of all, with the exception of a very small number of FHP officers in a pilot program, LEOs do not have access to the DOACS database from their patrol cars.

    CWFL status is not tied to DL in any way.

    Failure to display your CWFL to a LEO upon demand is punishable via a $25 administrative fine.

    You are under no legal obligation to inform a LEO that you are in possession of a firearm - in your car or anywhere else for that matter. Even when directly asked you can lie about it in most cases.

    Both the Florida and US Supreme Courts have ruled that LEO may not 'Terry" stop a person based solely on the fact that the person posseses a firearm.

    I'm not advocating any particular action, just clearing up some misconceptions.

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    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    First of all, with the exception of a very small number of FHP officers in a pilot program, LEOs do not have access to the DOACS database from their patrol cars.

    CWFL status is not tied to DL in any way.

    .
    i was pulled over by a city police and soon as he run my D/L it came back i had a ccw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deserteagle50 View Post
    if you get pulled over and they run your D/L it's going to come up that you have a CCW,then they are going to ask if your carrying.just a good idea to have your permint at all times if your carrying a gun if not you can go to jail & then lose your rights!!!
    Wrong it would be a $25 fine.

    if you get pulled over and they run your D/L it's going to come up that you have a CCW
    Also incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deserteagle50 View Post
    i was pulled over by a city police and soon as he run my D/L it came back i had a ccw.
    What city and when did this happen?

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    Regular Member deserteagle50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    What city and when did this happen?
    brooksville about 2 months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    FIRST OF ALL!! No you are not required by law to notify you have a weapon in this case, but its common courtesy to do so... If I pull you over and I find out you have a weapon in your car and you never said anything because you think your a harda**, I will be looking to mess up your day... show a positive additude from the start with both you DL and your CWL and I might just cut you loose and let you be on your way.

    just a little common courtesy is all I ask for..
    There is really nothing (Legally) that you could do about it. Or are you suggesting that you would further violate someone's rights or perhaps violate the law, or Dept. policy in some illegal/immoral quest for revenge?

    Why would you assume a simple "Nope" in reply to your question about weapons suggests being a hard-ass or being rude in some manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deserteagle50 View Post
    brooksville about 2 months ago.
    Perhaps the dispatcher ran your information through DOACS for the officer, the information I have (current as of about 2 months ago) is that the DOACS database is not accessible via MDTs.

    I'll look into this further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    You may think you have.
    Care to elaborate?

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