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Thread: NC under SoE due to Tornado and Storm Damage--No legal carry STATEWIDE for 30 days...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    NC under SoE due to Tornado and Storm Damage--No legal carry STATEWIDE for 30 days...

    http://www.wsfx.com/Global/story.asp?S=14460930

    The Governor's web site has not yet posted the text of the EO declaring the SoE, so we don't know whether it's going to be declared under Article 1 of Chapter 166A of the General Statutes or under Article 36A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes.

    But we all know that it doesn't matter because BOTH of them activate NCGS § 14-288.7. Article 36A Chapter 14 does it directly, and § 166A‑8 (1) invokes Article 36A of G.S. Chapter 14...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...pter_166a.html

    http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina.../14-288.7.html


    Good job Bev...

    People are homeless, have suffered injuries, death, and massive property loss and damage, and now you're telling them they can't protect themselves if they have to move off their personal property.

    I sure hope Alan Gura is watching...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-17-2011 at 03:10 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Many states corrected their laws similar to this one after Katrina, to prohibit preventing people from using their 2A rights during an emergency.
    Too bad NC wasn't one of them.

    The way 14-288.7 is written, if someone finds debris (oh, say, their gun safe) in the neighbor's yard, it has to be left there because it's illegal to posess a firearm off one's own property. That's ridiculous. (Or I suppose the neighbor could agree to push/roll it across the property line.)

    I skimmed the text of 166A1 and didn't see where it says the emergency lasts 30 days.
    Clarify, please? Is this an automatic amount of time, or declared by the Gov., and can it be removed if she un-declares a state of emergency?
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-17-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I skimmed the text of 166A1 and didn't see where it says the emergency lasts 30 days. Clarify, please? Is this an automatic amount of time, or declared by the Gov., and can it be removed if she un-declares a state of emergency?
    It's in this subsection:

    § 166A‑6. State of disaster.
    (1) c. A major disaster declaration by the President of the United States pursuant to the Stafford Act has not been declared.
    A Type I disaster declaration may be made by the Governor prior to, and independently of, any action taken by the Small Business Administration, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or any other federal agency. A Type I disaster declaration shall expire 30 days after its issuance unless renewed by the Governor or the General Assembly. Such renewals may be made in increments of 30 days each, not to exceed a total of 120 days from the date of first issuance. The Joint Legislative Commission on Governmental Operations shall be notified prior to the issuance of any renewal of a Type I disaster declaration.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    If we are going to place blame, it needs to be on lawmakers, FEMA and the gov.

    FEMA requires a state of emergency to be declared before they will give asstince, and some of the state medical and emergency response recourse are funded through FEMA and they will not roll out if FEMA dosnt pay them and they wont if the roll on an emergency with a declared SoE

    NC Law makers have had 2 differnt chances to remove that statue from the books and have failed to act. see HB 257 and HB 2031

    Gov Purdue conts to say that you can carry in a SoE, like she did last september for the snow storm:
    After checking with legal counsel, we are pleased to inform you that the current state of emergency was written in such a way that the rights of NC gun owners are not infringed upon. However, local authorities still have the authority to establish states of emergency within their jurisdictions that may impact your right to carry weapons.
    But the reality is that any SoE activates NCGS § 14-288.7 and the govoner can not suspend the effect or enforcement of a valid NC criminal law. She simply dosent have that authority.
    -----------------
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    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Exactly scott. Even if the gov does decide to say "oh, you can still carry guns, btw" it is an unlawful order, and she should be immediately removed from office because she is, essentially, writing law by saying that (which she legally can not do).

    Hopefully Allen wins the course case. And then the law makers write a new law saying that an SoE does not evoke the no gun carry laws.
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    Just saw this morning on the blog No Lawyers- only guns and money that a bill has been introduced in the NC Senate S 594 that would eliminate that abominable provision from the NC statutes. Timing is everything as they say. Time to mount up and contact your elected reps.

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    A link to share with everyone.

    http://www.wcti12.com/news/27575250/detail.html

    So I am guessing by what I read here, and on the news, that there is no legal carry until otherwise declared so.?!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Here is the Press Release, with links to the EOs that set things rolling for this SoE (EO87 and EO 88)...

    http://www.governor.state.nc.us/News...ewsItemid=1807


    This is, once again invoked under §166A, and once again she says it does not automatically invoke ˘14-288.7, which as demonstrated in my above post is a blatant lie.

    Bev needs to be impeached.

    She, and her AG--Roy Cooper are lying to the People of this state. They are making up laws to serve a political agenda. They are instructing the State's LEAs to selectively enforce the NC Criminal Code for political expediency. They are breaking their Oath, and violating several terms of the obligations of their office under the NC Constitution. They are doing all these things in an attempt to garner votes in the "gun lobby" of this state, and as an ettempt to undermine the "standing claim" of the Bateman suit. They are befouling the Executive with her disregard for NC law, and she is attempting to "game" the Judicial.

    We should be showing Bev and Roy the doors--the "exit" of the Governor's Mansion, and the "entrance" to a State Penitentiary...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-17-2011 at 01:49 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    guess I was lucky that no cops saw me carrying today

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    I wonder if I will be able to pickup my gun from lay-a-way on monday?
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    damnit. I guess this means we can't go target practice at the range, neither?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Oh no, you folks are all good-to-go...

    Apparenty, Gov. Perdue believes it is within her rights an powers as Governor to instruct the LEAs of our state to selectively enforce the NC Criminal Code. She has instructed them not to enforce the SoE Firearms Transport Ban.

    And THAT is the real issue here. Sure the law, as written, is a bad law.

    But it's not nearly as bad as an Executive who believes they can, by proclamation, temporarily change the very nature of our State's General Statutes for political expediency...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Oh no, you folks are all good-to-go...

    Apparenty, Gov. Perdue believes it is within her rights an powers as Governor to instruct the LEAs of our state to selectively enforce the NC Criminal Code. She has instructed them not to enforce the SoE Firearms Transport Ban.

    link?


    Can anyone find the EO she issued on the Gov wesite the last EO was issuied 4/5/11. It looks like other than anoucing it on the news it hasnt really been posted for the public to see. Is that legal?
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 04-18-2011 at 04:45 AM.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    so how am I supposed to get home? I have all of my guns with me here in Colorado and will be driving home in 2 weeks. Am I supposed stop on the TN-NC line and wait? or just leave my guns on the side of the road? what if i get busted by an LEO that didnt get the message? can I subpoena the Gov to tell the judge she said it was OK????

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    I gotta tell ya. This is THE most dangerous thing to all of our rights. To my understanding of it, on a federal level. When martial law is declared which I think it is when a SoE is declared nation wide, the constitution is suspended. Is this how it works when a SoE is declared within a state? Are the laws suspended in a way that Gov. Perdue does have the ability to pick and choose what laws to enforce?

    Also, what about the above poster? How do you get home say you were out of town with your weapons. I wanna go to the range (assuming it's still there after the tornado that I heard touched down south of Seymour Johnson).

    So lets say she does go an direct the LEA to ignore the gun ban during SoE. Ok so that makes me somewhat happy because she is defending our rights. BUT! When she goes and does something like suspend a law that pisses us all off. Can't have it both ways folks. I would be less inclined to view this gov. in a negative manner if she would propose a bill to get rid of the section of the law that bans guns during SoE. Lets see that miss gov. maim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    link?


    Can anyone find the EO she issued on the Gov wesite the last EO was issuied 4/5/11. It looks like other than anoucing it on the news it hasnt really been posted for the public to see. Is that legal?
    http://www.governor.state.nc.us/News...16e707eac7.pdf

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    What makes her think she has the power to pick and choose what statutes get activated or suspend enforcment of them. She said that alcohol will still be sold, but mentions nothing about firearms
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    What makes her think she has the power to pick and choose what statutes get activated or suspend enforcment of them. She said that alcohol will still be sold, but mentions nothing about firearms
    Click on the previous link and scroll down to section 7. There it specifically mentions firearms and alcohol and how this proclamation does not trigger the provisions concerning those restrictions.

    Nice thought, Bev. Illegal, but nice.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 04-18-2011 at 01:03 PM.

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    I think she is within her right.

    but I am not a lawyer, I only play one on the internet.

    § 14‑288.16. Effective time, publication, amendment, and recision of proclamations.

    (a) This section applies to proclamations issued under the authority of G.S. 14‑288.12, 14‑288.13, 14‑288.14, and 14‑288.15, and any other applicable statutes and provisions of the common law.

    (b) All prohibitions and restrictions imposed by proclamation shall take effect immediately upon publication of the proclamation in the area affected unless the proclamation sets a later time. For the purpose of requiring compliance, publication may consist of reports of the substance of the prohibitions and restrictions in the mass communications media serving the affected area or other effective methods of disseminating the necessary information quickly. As soon as practicable, however, appropriate distribution of the full text of any proclamation shall be made. This subsection shall not be governed by the provisions of G.S. 1‑597.

    (c) Prohibitions and restrictions may be extended as to time or area, amended, or rescinded by proclamation. Prohibitions and restrictions imposed by proclamation under the authority of G.S. 14‑288.12, 14‑288.13, and 14‑288.14 shall expire five days after their last imposition unless sooner terminated under G.S. 14‑288.14(c)(3), by proclamation, or by the governing body of the county or municipality in question. Prohibitions and restrictions imposed by proclamation of the Governor shall expire five days after their last imposition unless sooner terminated by proclamation of the Governor. (1969, c. 869, s. 1.)
    The section before that seems to also grant her broad powers to amend in her proclamation. In fact it makes it a crime of class two misdemeanor to disobey her proclamation including any amendments she may tack on.

    I am not about to argue with a proclamation that goes in my favor. And I do not dispute the fact that a Governor should have the authority to declare a SOE. In this case it was necessary to trigger federal funds that will be sorely needed by emergency first responders and other state agencies. Many of my customers depend on these funds when an emergency exists since their regular budgets would be extremely tapped out or unable to properly deal with an emergency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Sure the law, as written, is a bad law.

    But it's not nearly as bad as an Executive who believes they can, by proclamation, temporarily change the very nature of our State's General Statutes for political expediency...
    Actually, under the doctrine of separation of powers, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. A chief executive should declare that they will not enforce an unconstitutional law, and should instruct all executive branch employees to ignore it.

    The legislature wields the purse. The judiciary wields the gavel. And the executive wields the guns, including the power to not use them even if the legislature and judiciary tells them to.

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    Click on the previous link and scroll down to section 7. There it specifically mentions firearms and alcohol and how this proclamation does not trigger the provisions concerning those restrictions.

    Nice thought, Bev. Illegal, but nice.
    I saw it mention alcohol but missed the firearms part. My Mistake. I am going to print that page off and carry it with me the next 30 days. So if I end up in a terry stop I will use the excuse the Governor told me I could...?
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    We need a lawyer to clairify what power the gov does have when it comes to SoE. I was always under the impression that it allowed a ballooning of power for the gov. Now there is this argument that the gov doesn't have the power to suspend an already unconstitutional law. I like to agree that if the executive knows a law is unconstitutional, then they have the power to say don't enfore it. However, then where does the SC come in?

    So what is it NC? Do we continue to open carry, and roll the dice and hope there isn't a DA out there that will charge you.

    IMHO. I see more flack comming from anyone that lives in the areas devistated by this. LEOs and general populace that knows the language of the SoE, but missed the part that Bev said ignore the lawfull, peace loving folk walking around with guns.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brion View Post
    We need a lawyer to clairify what power the gov does have when it comes to SoE. I was always under the impression that it allowed a ballooning of power for the gov. Now there is this argument that the gov doesn't have the power to suspend an already unconstitutional law. I like to agree that if the executive knows a law is unconstitutional, then they have the power to say don't enfore it. However, then where does the SC come in?

    So what is it NC? Do we continue to open carry, and roll the dice and hope there isn't a DA out there that will charge you.

    IMHO. I see more flack comming from anyone that lives in the areas devistated by this. LEOs and general populace that knows the language of the SoE, but missed the part that Bev said ignore the lawfull, peace loving folk walking around with guns.
    The problem with her suspending things like that is that she's able to reinstate them at any time on her own accord, too. Not only her but any other Governor in NC after her, as well. It needs to either be repealed, stricken from the law, or defined clearly one way or the other, once and for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Actually, under the doctrine of separation of powers, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. A chief executive should declare that they will not enforce an unconstitutional law, and should instruct all executive branch employees to ignore it.

    The legislature wields the purse. The judiciary wields the gavel. And the executive wields the guns, including the power to not use them even if the legislature and judiciary tells them to.
    Bingo!

    That's why the separate branches are so important. The executive checks the legislature and the courts and back and forth. The citizenry checks each of the above through voting and through jury nullification of laws and court cases.

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    I figure tomorrow I'll call the magistrate and ask him what he thinks. What's gonna happen in Goldsboro to OC.

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