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Thread: Micro Stamping being brought up again by Milwaukee gun haters

  1. #1
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Micro Stamping being brought up again by Milwaukee gun haters

    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:46 AM
    To: *Legislative All Assembly; *Legislative All Senate
    Subject: REMINDER: DEADLINE TONIGHT, FRIDAY, APRIL 15 AT 5 p.m. Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1

    The deadline to sign onto the gun microstamping bill is tonight, Friday April 15th at 5 p.m.

    Dave de Felice
    Office of Sen. Spencer Coggs
    608-266-2500



    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:03 AM
    To: *Legislative All Senate; *Legislative All Assembly
    Subject: FW: DEADLINE EXTENDED TO APRIL 15th - Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1

    Please note that the deadline for co-sponsoring this bill has been extended to Friday, April 15.

    Dave de Felice
    Office of Sen. Spencer Coggs
    608-266-2500



    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 11:32 AM
    To: *Legislative All Senate; *Legislative All Assembly
    Subject: DEADLINE EXTENDED TO APRIL 15th - Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1


    TO: All Legislators

    FROM: Rep. Leon Young/Senator Spencer Coggs

    DATE: April 6, 2011

    RE: Co-sponsorship of LRB 1589/1 and 1590/1 relating to creating a microstamping requirement for certain handguns, certification of compliance with microstamping requirement, requiring the exercise of rule-making authority, and providing penalties.

    DEADLINE EXTENDED TO: April 15, 2011

    For years, law enforcement agencies have grappled with the difficult and often daunting task of ballistic identification -- matching the gun with the bullet casings found at a particular crime scene. Microstamping represents a quantum leap in ballistic identification, which can further assist law enforcement in its ongoing efforts to reduce crime and curb gun violence.

    Microstamping:

    For close to a century, law enforcement officials have used cartridge casings found at a crime scene to help identify the particular gun used in a crime. Microstamping represents an evolution in ballistic identification. Microstamping technology uses lasers to make precise and microscopic engravings on internal mechanisms of a gun, such as the breech face and firing pin. When the gun is fired, information identifying the make, model and serial number of the gun is intentionally stamped onto the cartridge. This represents a significant improvement over existing ballistic identification technology, which relies on the unintentional markings that are transferred from the gun to the cartridge case, when a gun is fired. These unintentional markings are then compared to a database of images of "ballistic fingerprints" gathered from other crime scenes. While this information can provide links between crimes, it cannot lead investigators directly to a specific firearm unless that weapon is ultimately recovered. Microstamping, on the other hand, immediately identifies the particular gun and, thus, provides law enforcement officials with a powerful new crime-solving tool.

    If you would like to co-sponsor this legislation, please respond to this e-mail or contact Greg Stewart in Rep. Young’s office at 266-3786 or Dave de Felice in Sen. Coggs’ office at 266-2500 DEADLINE EXTENDED TO 5:00 p.m. FRIDAY, APRIL 15. Co-sponsors will be listed on both the Senate and Assembly versions of the bill unless you indicate otherwise.

    LRB 1589/1 is the Senate version of the bill, LRB 1590/1 is the Assembly version. Both LRBs are identical. Both are attached.

    <<Bill - 2011 - Guns - Microstamping - LRB 1589-1.pdf>>
    <<Bill - 2011 - Guns - Microstamping - LRB 1590-1.pdf>>
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  2. #2
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:46 AM
    To: *Legislative All Assembly; *Legislative All Senate
    Subject: REMINDER: DEADLINE TONIGHT, FRIDAY, APRIL 15 AT 5 p.m. Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1

    The deadline to sign onto the gun microstamping bill is tonight, Friday April 15th at 5 p.m.

    Dave de Felice
    Office of Sen. Spencer Coggs
    608-266-2500



    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:03 AM
    To: *Legislative All Senate; *Legislative All Assembly
    Subject: FW: DEADLINE EXTENDED TO APRIL 15th - Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1

    Please note that the deadline for co-sponsoring this bill has been extended to Friday, April 15.

    Dave de Felice
    Office of Sen. Spencer Coggs
    608-266-2500



    ______________________________________________
    From: de Felice, David Patrick
    Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 11:32 AM
    To: *Legislative All Senate; *Legislative All Assembly
    Subject: DEADLINE EXTENDED TO APRIL 15th - Young/Coggs: Co-sponsorship - Gun Microstamping LRBs 1589/1 & 1590/1


    TO: All Legislators

    FROM: Rep. Leon Young/Senator Spencer Coggs

    DATE: April 6, 2011

    RE: Co-sponsorship of LRB 1589/1 and 1590/1 relating to creating a microstamping requirement for certain handguns, certification of compliance with microstamping requirement, requiring the exercise of rule-making authority, and providing penalties.

    DEADLINE EXTENDED TO: April 15, 2011

    For years, law enforcement agencies have grappled with the difficult and often daunting task of ballistic identification -- matching the gun with the bullet casings found at a particular crime scene. Microstamping represents a quantum leap in ballistic identification, which can further assist law enforcement in its ongoing efforts to reduce crime and curb gun violence.

    Microstamping:

    For close to a century, law enforcement officials have used cartridge casings found at a crime scene to help identify the particular gun used in a crime. Microstamping represents an evolution in ballistic identification. Microstamping technology uses lasers to make precise and microscopic engravings on internal mechanisms of a gun, such as the breech face and firing pin. When the gun is fired, information identifying the make, model and serial number of the gun is intentionally stamped onto the cartridge. This represents a significant improvement over existing ballistic identification technology, which relies on the unintentional markings that are transferred from the gun to the cartridge case, when a gun is fired. These unintentional markings are then compared to a database of images of "ballistic fingerprints" gathered from other crime scenes. While this information can provide links between crimes, it cannot lead investigators directly to a specific firearm unless that weapon is ultimately recovered. Microstamping, on the other hand, immediately identifies the particular gun and, thus, provides law enforcement officials with a powerful new crime-solving tool.

    If you would like to co-sponsor this legislation, please respond to this e-mail or contact Greg Stewart in Rep. Young’s office at 266-3786 or Dave de Felice in Sen. Coggs’ office at 266-2500 DEADLINE EXTENDED TO 5:00 p.m. FRIDAY, APRIL 15. Co-sponsors will be listed on both the Senate and Assembly versions of the bill unless you indicate otherwise.

    LRB 1589/1 is the Senate version of the bill, LRB 1590/1 is the Assembly version. Both LRBs are identical. Both are attached.

    <<Bill - 2011 - Guns - Microstamping - LRB 1589-1.pdf>>
    <<Bill - 2011 - Guns - Microstamping - LRB 1590-1.pdf>>
    Fight fire with fire; introduce a bill to start macro-stamping anti-gunners...right between the eyes should suffice.
    Last edited by Lurchiron; 04-18-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Notice in this article that supporters of the bill includes WAVE's buddy organization the Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence. Am I missing something, but if a domestic violence tragedy occurs, would not the cops would have a good idea who the perpetator was? Just another example of an organization, just like the Police Chiefs Association carrying water for the Joyce Foundation via a relationship with WAVE.

    http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/...-tracking-bill
    Last edited by Flipper; 04-18-2011 at 02:18 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Just another example of an organization, just like the Police Chiefs Association carrying water for the Joyce Foundation via a relationship with WAVE.

    http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/...-tracking-bill
    Z-actly!
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I'm gonna go to Fletcher's in the next few days, take a picture of all the brass lying around on the floor & in a big puddle in the middle of the range, then send those to my Sen. (Coggs) & Rep. to show exactly why this is such a stupid idea.

    Granted, most people shoot once & leave the casing lie there.
    But with reloading, how many different microstamps could there be on 1 casing?
    If there's more than one, are any of them legible?
    How many false leads would police be chasing?


    If I didn't hate attention & cameras so much, I might run for office.
    Certainly can't do a worse job than they are!

  6. #6
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I'm gonna go to Fletcher's in the next few days, take a picture of all the brass lying around on the floor & in a big puddle in the middle of the range, then send those to my Sen. (Coggs) & Rep. to show exactly why this is such a stupid idea.

    Granted, most people shoot once & leave the casing lie there.
    But with reloading, how many different microstamps could there be on 1 casing?
    If there's more than one, are any of them legible?
    How many false leads would police be chasing?


    If I didn't hate attention & cameras so much, I might run for office.
    Certainly can't do a worse job than they are!

    You have my vote.

  7. #7
    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    Thats like finger printing EVERYONE before you commit a crime...just in case...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Granted, most people shoot once & leave the casing lie there.
    But with reloading, how many different microstamps could there be on 1 casing?
    If there's more than one, are any of them legible?
    How many false leads would police be chasing?
    Not to mention, when reloaded hot, the brass headstamp/microstamp will turn to mush.

  9. #9
    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    Even if you dont reload, a hand full of spent brass thrown at a crime scene would be more than enough to give one juror doubt as to convicting...! I see a potential business idea!

  10. #10
    McX
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    more Red Lectroids from the 8th Dimension!
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Microstamping is a terrible idea, for lots of reasons.

    First, with all of the firearms currently in circulation, they'll never be able to tag 'em all, and how many of us are really going to raise our hands and say "Oh, yes Mr. Goobermint man! Put my gun, that you had no idea I owned, in your database!".

    Second, it would require all of our firearms to be registered with all transfers going through a FFL, never going to happen in WI, where we trade off 4 wheelers for a shotgun<g>.

    Third, personally as a reloader, depending on how deep the etching is when it stamps, would it weaken the wall of the case enough that there may be a danger of case wall failure on firing. That, and people would starting picking up all their brass at the ranges and I'd actually have to pay for new brass rather than going and cleaning up the range. I pick up a whole lot more garbage and wrong brass/steel/aluminum cases than I do .45 ACP, did find a ton of .270 cases a couple trips ago tho, saved a bunch of $$. And the other stuff can either be dontaed/resold or recycled so it's a win/win: nice clean range and I get components.

    Wow, how was that for a tangent?

    What it boils down to is I see this microstamping bill as a bargaining chip for the antis. They *know* it'll never pass and even if it did they'd never be able to follow up on it, but, the antis will go "Hey, we'll drop this bill if you drop your pro gun bill" and some numbnutz politician will think it's a great deal and the antis still get what they really wanted without giving up anything and we get screwed...again.

    I could be completely off base (hell I usually am)
    Last edited by Wolf1477; 04-19-2011 at 12:11 PM. Reason: epic spelling failures abound

  12. #12
    McX
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    so we get these micro stamps at the micro-post office? something says there will be money charged us for this.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Just called both offices (Coggs & Young), and it sounds like there are no co-sponsors.
    Coggs' office (608-266-2500) couldn't even tell me if anyone else had signed on,
    but Young's office (608-266-3786) finally admitted that so far it's just the 2 of them.
    Young's guy said he couldn't tell me any more until it's introduced & published, which he says will be about a week.

    I'm sending both of them, as well as my Rep., printouts of the pages from the PDF at www.gunfacts.info on microstamping (pg. 21-22 in the edition I have).
    Hopefully we can stop this nonsense before they waste any more time & money on it.

    BTW, they did this before, or at least Coggs did. In 2009, he was co-sponsor of SB174. That time they had 14 people sign on. That one specifically excluded revolvers! So they know some of the limitations; it just doesn't matter.
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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    That one specifically excluded revolvers! So they know some of the limitations; it just doesn't matter.
    Maybe I should start carrying my Rossi .357 six-shot shiny stainless steel revolver.
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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    I guess that settles it.....

    A certain part of my anatomy needs to be microstamped.

    I was told by the 18yr old I can drop a charging Rhino from 60 yrds
    with just one bowl of Lizzy's chili.

    LR Yote
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  16. #16
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote
    A certain part of my anatomy needs to be microstamped.
    I was told by the 18yr old I can drop a charging Rhino from 60 yrds with just one bowl of Lizzy's chili.
    TMI!!!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Just part of don't control guns, control ammunition strategy. California is the leading edge of this. How would this great techology work with the .22 LR pistols used in many target shooting leagues and a favorite of professional assissins?
    Last edited by Flipper; 04-24-2011 at 11:33 AM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    The biggest flaw in the micro-stamping legislation is the fact that it is not technologically possible at this time.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    The biggest flaw in the micro-stamping legislation is the fact that it is not technologically possible at this time.
    Yep, that is a problem.
    So under this (BS) bill, would we have to turn in the old guns?
    And with no replacements to be had (ones with this micro stamp), we would not be able to get any new guns until the guns are made (someday?)...
    Once again, the Reps. I have in Milwaukee have failed. Thank God, this bill is not going to pass.
    Anti rights people (asshats), like Coggs and Young need to be replaced, once and for all.
    Our rights are for all, and MUST be protected. If not, our rights will be for none, and will need no protection.
    When will the masses of the City of Milwaukee start to understand this?

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    Yep, that is a problem.
    So under this (BS) bill, would we have to turn in the old guns?
    And with no replacements to be had (ones with this micro stamp), we would not be able to get any new guns until the guns are made (someday?)...
    Once again, the Reps. I have in Milwaukee have failed. Thank God, this bill is not going to pass.
    Anti rights people (asshats), like Coggs and Young need to be replaced, once and for all.
    Our rights are for all, and MUST be protected. If not, our rights will be for none, and will need no protection.
    When will the masses of the City of Milwaukee start to understand this?
    Speaking of old guns, how does one microstamp with a black powder firearm?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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  21. #21
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Speaking of old guns, how does one microstamp with a black powder firearm?
    The bill specifically requires only semi-automatic handguns to have the microstamping capability. I'm not aware of any semi-autos that use black powder cartridges. What a mess that would be!

    There are, of course, revolvers that were made for black powder cartridges, but I know you were probably thinking of cap and ball guns. Let's see them micro-stamp a flintlock!

    My understanding is that this bill is identical to the last attempt to promote this foolish idea. As Hubert testified at that public hearing, NO manufacturer has come up with a method to place two micro-stamps on the case. The current microstamping methods, as I understand, place a stamp on the primer, which technically is not the case. Cartridges have four components: Case, primer, propellant and bullet. Since this bill requires two stamps on the case, it's asking for something no technology currently provides. For that, and for many other reasons, it's a stupid and foolish bill and it will go nowhere, just as before.

    Nevertheless, it wouldn't be the first time stupid legislation has been passed, so we ought to actively oppose this bill just to be safe.
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