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Thread: Calling All Instructors

  1. #1
    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    Calling All Instructors

    It is no secret that I am an NRA certified instructor, and I have been working my butt off to get things off the ground here in Wisconsin for Constitutional Carry, but I think we need to fill a gap in the firearms training industry.

    It is for that reason that I am looking to put together a list of instructors that are willing to work with me on creating a standardized training curriculum that fills the gaps in the NRA way of doing things. Now I am not saying that the NRA is a bad way to go, but I am saying that as someone who has been in self defense situations, there are massive gaps in the training, not to mention many items that are not covered.

    Like every other instructor out there, I tend to fall into the "What I would do" way of teaching. And I feel that this training should apply in every state with a "insert laws here" kind of format.

    So is anyone out there interested in joining me on this adventure?
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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    I'm in. Where to meet?

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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    My plan is to get each course done and e-mail it out to instructors all over the country to get their input and then modify it accordingly. Once it is all fixed up and we have a general agreement about the total layout, we can collectively submit it to many states to get it recognized as an approved corriculum. Like the NRA does but without all the extra crap, and after having come up with a complete structure for said courses.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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    I predict resistance.

    NRA has a vested interest in its concealed-carry training. (Anything spun as Right-to-Carry, but needs a permission slip, tells you something.)

    It might not be a bad idea to prepare or pre-empt resistance. Those boys got credibility with pro-gun legislators, and tons of advocacy experience. Make them feel defensive, or get a few NRA CCW instructors whining against you because you're impacting their economics, and I think you can find yourself running into roadblocks.

    Don't under-estimate this, nor give it insufficient consideration. NRA has become a bureaucracy. It has laudable goals, too. But, like any bureaucracy, its first mission is to perpetuate itself.

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    Regular Member CalicoJack10's Avatar
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    I have thought a lot about that too, and the conclusion that I have come to is I am going to go around them as well as profess that they are "Just as good" until such time as this system has equal credability.

    I am not trying to side step them, I am just looking for a standard that fills their gaps in training. I believe that the best way to do that is to create a standard that comes from those with actual experience as opposed to some guy looking through books and thinking something would be cool to try.
    I am Calico Jack,,,, And I approve this message!
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    Here in Ohio we just add to the NRA training. You can advertise an NRA class and then say you also provide added material and NRA is fine with that.

    Bill
    Just shut up and pay your dues

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    As I've posted about elsewhere, I find the NRA training to be a sick, sick joke. Besides gaps they also have a habit of teaching exactly the wrong stuff.

    I'm no professional expert, and I'm certainly not NRA certified, but I do try to stay well studied on techniques, and I teach first time handgun shooters fairly regularly using a system of point shooting and simple sighted fire, primarily based off of Applegate/Fairbairn WWII stuff to get recruits effective fast, plus some newer techniques depending on their needs, so I'd like to think it's possible I could put my ideas into your project. I'm quite frankly obsessed with the idea of getting people to learn how to decently combatively shoot handguns up close with 4 hours or less range time, or at least give them the needed techniques to practice to where they can do so on their own with no further instruction. Again, I don't pretend to be some self appointed expert, but I'm happy to help. If you ever want me to put my thoughts into the mix, please feel free to send me a private message.

    To address Citizen's concerns, as far as I know, I believe most state laws require NRA or equivalent training. There is no reason why at the state level you couldn't come up with your own curriculum to teach people, assuming Wisconsin goes shall issue with class and fees. The NRA is the biggest player, the only player actually, at the national level. This is because of all that red tape with lawyers and getting them to agree on standardized course work. If you piss off the NRA, good. If you piss off NRA instructors, you can invite them to teach your curriculum, if desired.
    Last edited by Michigander; 04-20-2011 at 08:02 PM.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    If you need a voice from Colorado, let me know. I'm certified here. Haven't tought many classes in awhile, but will be doing at least two in the next three weeks to accomodate everyone in my Constitutional law class.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I predict resistance.

    NRA has a vested interest in its concealed-carry training. (Anything spun as Right-to-Carry, but needs a permission slip, tells you something.)

    It might not be a bad idea to prepare or pre-empt resistance. Those boys got credibility with pro-gun legislators, and tons of advocacy experience. Make them feel defensive, or get a few NRA CCW instructors whining against you because you're impacting their economics, and I think you can find yourself running into roadblocks.

    Don't under-estimate this, nor give it insufficient consideration. NRA has become a bureaucracy. It has laudable goals, too. But, like any bureaucracy, its first mission is to perpetuate itself.
    Well said, and any signficant effort may very well be met with resistance from the NRA, vetted with arguements including "we've been doing this for 100 years; how can our approach be wrong or inadequate?" The easiest response would be that their focus is primarily on long guns and concealed carry, and therefore misses the boat with respect to open carry, not to mention intermediate and advanced urban armed defense tactics and techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    I have thought a lot about that too, and the conclusion that I have come to is I am going to go around them as well as profess that they are "Just as good" until such time as this system has equal credability.

    I am not trying to side step them, I am just looking for a standard that fills their gaps in training. I believe that the best way to do that is to create a standard that comes from those with actual experience as opposed to some guy looking through books and thinking something would be cool to try.
    Good approach, Calico. If you want credibility, it'll have to be nation-wide and with a catchy name. How about the North American Firearms Training Academy, or NAFTA?

    Oh, wait...

    Ok, let's try American Association of Firearms Safety and Training Instructors aka AAFSATI. Just a quick stab on the name; lots of room for improvement.

    As for training standards and drills... A safety course can be compiled from a handful of firearms owners' manuals, as well as resources such as Jeff Cooper's Wikipedia entry. Meanwhile, many websites out there have collected various drills employed by both military as well as various state and federal law enforcement agencies.

    But why reinvent the wheel? Here's perhaps the best collection of safety and various firearms drills I've ever found on the Internet. Be sure to review Parts 2 and 3, as well. Meanwhile, this resource includes both the FBI and Federal Air Marshal training standards.

    I've never been a firearms instructor per se', but I was a military instructor, certified in the Air Force's ISD, or Instructional Systems Development, and have developed many formal military training courses of instruction, often from scratch.

    From what I hear you saying, you're looking for perhaps a multi-level course, say either Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced, or Levels I, II, and III, where Level I would meet all state handgun safety and training requirements for those needing a permit to either OC or CC. Level II might involve additional techniques such weapons retention and the use of barriers and obstacles. Level III would then be relegated to defensive and offensive handgun tactics under fire, as well as basic hand-to-hand combat techniques including blocks, defensive disarmament of a shooter, and takedowns.

    Yes, instructors would be helpful! However, for a course of study and training to be accepted at state levels, you will need a trained educator certified at the federal level to help develop and most importantly document it in accordance with both state and federal training/educational standards. Goals, objectives, standards of measure/performance, along with many other aspects would need to be addressed in a three-volume system, including an Administrator's Guide, an Instructor's Manual, and a Student Workbook, for each of the three levels. If you wanted to get fancy, slides incorporating short video clips demonstrating right and wrong ways of doing things would be required, as well.

    As a freelance technical writer, this sort of project is well within my grasp, but if someone were to approach me to do it, I would charge them $100,000 in equal monthly installments, plus expenses, with a time frame of 1 year. That is what is required in order to do the job right.

    I'm not speaking out of the side of my mouth, here. I'm speaking as a former Assistant Chief of Academics at a major military school who also consulted in the complete redesign of all the courseware of another significant military school.

    ETA: Here's another well-written set of drills. However, it's a set of drills, not a training course.
    Last edited by since9; 04-22-2011 at 09:19 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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